Bundesliga, DFB Cup, and other Bundesliga business 2014/2015

What do Borussia fans say, do they want Klopp out?

Seems a bit mixed atm most are still just mad at the team being a bunch of pussies but others are starting to think that Klopp ain't got what it takes to turn their fortunes around.

I'm not a Dortmund fan but for me it's clear by now that this is mainly a psychological problem and sometimes a new manager can help breaking a blockade like this and get some fresh new spirit into a team that almost looks dead so it might be their only chance of turning this around because I can't see Klopp being the man to give them their believe back, not after he has failed to do it for almost 20 games now.
 
Up until 12-13 games into the season I also thought Dortmund could go on a run and still win a CL place, not anymore though. The talk about them possibly being 4th reminds me of when QPR were basically all but relegated a couple seasons ago and people on here would say 'they could easily stay up' repeatedly.

As it stands Augsberg are on course for 59 points for the season. To catch up a 17 point gap on them Dortmund would therefore need at least 43 more points from the 45 points available. Which lets face it is not happening.

And if Augsberg fall away, Leverkeusen and Shalke are only a point or two behind them anyway. So they're done. If there's a sure thing in football, this is it. At this point I would say relegation is a better bet, albeit I dont think that will happen.
 
Lets all cross our fingers in the hope that Hertha sign Skibbe... again.
 
I think for our amusement, this man should replace Klopp
Felix_Magath_2823196b.jpg
 
That part is a bit weird. Did they add the positive and negative netspends together? Which would mean, they cancel each other out. Wolfsburg's netspend in the past 4 years is 112.78m for example. If you compare that with Bayern's 135m all of a sudden the gap doesn't sound impressive anymore.

Correct. See diagram:

Bayern%2BMunich%2BTransfer%2BSpend%2B2014.jpg
 
So Boateng won't feature in the next few games. Hopefully Dante takes his place. :cool:
 
Bayern's transfer spend is still way behind any of their European rivals. Maybe we should add that to the debate as I think that is a very important issue. Bayern's goal is to have a team that is playing in the top of Europe in all competitions - most of the other teams have different goals. In that time they were no. 9 in Europe when it meant net spending

1 FC Paris Saint-Germain -399,60 Mio. €
2 Manchester United -323,81 Mio. €
3 Manchester City -251,99 Mio. €
4 FC Chelsea -198,91 Mio. €
5 FC Liverpool -176,59 Mio. €
6 FC Barcelona -163,75 Mio. €
7 Zenit St. Petersburg -137,21 Mio. €
8 AS Monaco -136,73 Mio. €
9 FC Bayern München -134,80 Mio. €
10 Juventus Turin -125,78 Mio. €
11 Real Madrid -120,50 Mio. €
12 FC Arsenal -113,57 Mio. €
13 VfL Wolfsburg -112,78 Mio. €

But - when we want to include Dortmund into it we really have to talk only about this and the last season. Until then Dortmund because of their big debt had no possibilities to spend. And they did not have the income either.

1 VfL Wolfsburg -70,55 Mio. €
2 Borussia Dortmund -66,73 Mio. €
3 RasenBallsport Leipzig -25,23 Mio. €
4 FC Bayern München -20,40 Mio. €
5 FC Schalke 04 -15,15 Mio. €
6 TSG 1899 Hoffenheim -13,28 Mio. €
7 Hannover 96 -13,20 Mio. €
8 VfB Stuttgart -9,98 Mio. €
9 FC Augsburg -7,55 Mio. €
10 Eintracht Frankfurt -7,45 Mio. €
11 Bayer 04 Leverkusen -6,96 Mio. €

Or if you take Europe... - Wolfsburg was 9th, Dortmund on 11th, Leipzig 30th, Bayern 39th...
 
Oh - and that scene of De Bruyne from yesterday gets investigated by the German FA... (yes, I can imagine that the ball boys aren't very fast when Eintracht is leading 1:0 in the last minutes of a match...)

 
Seems a bit mixed atm most are still just mad at the team being a bunch of pussies but others are starting to think that Klopp ain't got what it takes to turn their fortunes around.

I'm not a Dortmund fan but for me it's clear by now that this is mainly a psychological problem and sometimes a new manager can help breaking a blockade like this and get some fresh new spirit into a team that almost looks dead so it might be their only chance of turning this around because I can't see Klopp being the man to give them their believe back, not after he has failed to do it for almost 20 games now.
What a strange and awful season. I get their feelings, Klopp is great and all but maybe its just isnt working anymore.
Borussia in Zweite Bundesliga, is it possible.

People wondering if they'll get CL or EL places, they'll be lucky to stay up how things stay right now.
 
they need to sack Michael Preetz (DoF); he is aweful. I actually liked Luhukay. Not a worldbeater, but a solid manager for a team that wants to stay in the first league with limited funds.

Why exactly is he awful?

It seems to be the common opinion to say "Preetz is awful, he should be sacked" but nobody ever seems to explain it. Dieter Hoeneß left the club in an awful state, especially from a financial point of view and he was thrown in at the deep end. He made some mistakes, but he managed to get Hertha back on track financially and at least in my eyes, learned from his mistakes in the past. Preetz signed some good players in the summer for a club like Hertha (Kalou, Stocker, Skjelbred, Beerens, Schieber, Heitinga (the summer/winter before: Baumjohann, Langkamp, Hosogai, Cigerci) for good money.

I also liked Luhukay, because he was a hard working and grounded manager who identified himself with the club. He did a good job for most of the time, but seemed to have lost the dressing room around November. Even though they added a lot of quality to the squad, there hasn't been a development on the pitch and the results weren't going their way either. He probably didn't deserve the sack, but sadly that's the way football works these days. It would have been better to sack him during the winter break, especially for the new coach who could have worked with the team for nearly a month instead of just two days before the next match, but they probably thought they could turn it around. The bad performance against Bremen certainly destroyed that belief quickly.
 
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Anybody know what time the Bundesliga highlights show on ITV 4 was on at tonight? It's usually on at 11 but no sign of it so I have a feeling it was on earlier.
 
Anybody know what time the Bundesliga highlights show on ITV 4 was on at tonight? It's usually on at 11 but no sign of it so I have a feeling it was on earlier.
It was on at 9:30. It should come up on the ITV player soon.
 
Anybody know what time the Bundesliga highlights show on ITV 4 was on at tonight? It's usually on at 11 but no sign of it so I have a feeling it was on earlier.
Im just recording the Bundesliga review from bt sports
If u'd like i can post it later
 
Why exactly is he awful?

It seems to be the common opinion to say "Preetz is awful, he should be sacked" but nobody ever seems to explain it. Dieter Hoeneß left the club in an awful state, especially from a financial point of view and he was thrown in at the deep end. He made some mistakes, but he managed to get Hertha back on track financially and at least in my eyes, learned from his mistakes in the past. Preetz signed some good players in the summer for a club like Hertha (Kalou, Stocker, Skjelbred, Beerens, Schieber, Heitinga (the summer/winter before: Baumjohann, Langkamp, Hosogai, Cigerci) for good money.

I also liked Luhukay, because he was a hard working and grounded manager who identified himself with the club. He did a good job for most of the time, but seemed to have lost the dressing room around November. Even though they added a lot of quality to the squad, there hasn't been a development on the pitch and the results weren't going their way either. He probably didn't deserve the sack, but sadly that's the way football works these days. It would have been better to sack him during the winter break, especially for the new coach who could have worked with the team for nearly a month instead of just two days before the next match, but they probably thought they could turn it around. The bad performance against Bremen certainly destroyed that belief quickly.

Preetz worked under Hoeneß for 5-6 years and was the his designated successor. He knew what he got into. He got relegated two times and it wouldnt surprise anyone if Berlin goes down again. I dont think his transfer business is laudable or special. The whole issue with Babble was embarrassing. He sacked Favre and appointed Funkel, Michael fecking Skibbe and Rehhagel. Not long ago (even in the winterbreak) he praised Lukukay and tried to extend his contract. Now he sacks him two matches after the winter-break. He is incredible short sighted and result oriented. You just have to watch one PK/interview and you know that he is not up to the job.

After more than 5 years he cant shift blame. Hertha should be a established first league club, but they are not. I doubt that most Hertha fans rate him. They accept/like him for his legacy as a player, but there is just one reason why Preetz is still manager: Werner Gegenbauer.
 
Why are those rumours about Khedira joining us in the summer not going away :( . Scary thought.
 
Bayern's transfer spend is still way behind any of their European rivals. Maybe we should add that to the debate as I think that is a very important issue. Bayern's goal is to have a team that is playing in the top of Europe in all competitions - most of the other teams have different goals. In that time they were no. 9 in Europe when it meant net spending

1 FC Paris Saint-Germain -399,60 Mio. €
2 Manchester United -323,81 Mio. €
3 Manchester City -251,99 Mio. €
4 FC Chelsea -198,91 Mio. €
5 FC Liverpool -176,59 Mio. €
6 FC Barcelona -163,75 Mio. €
7 Zenit St. Petersburg -137,21 Mio. €
8 AS Monaco -136,73 Mio. €
9 FC Bayern München -134,80 Mio. €
10 Juventus Turin -125,78 Mio. €
11 Real Madrid -120,50 Mio. €
12 FC Arsenal -113,57 Mio. €
13 VfL Wolfsburg -112,78 Mio. €

That table burns the eyes from a United and Premier League standpoint. How Bayern have managed to assemble their great team with so much less money than us, it's shocking really. Premier league teams are so incredibly wasteful. Even if prices generally are higher for English teams due to the greater money in the league.
 
Preetz worked under Hoeneß for 5-6 years and was the his designated successor. He knew what he got into. He got relegated two times and it wouldnt surprise anyone if Berlin goes down again. I dont think his transfer business is laudable or special. The whole issue with Babble was embarrassing. He sacked Favre and appointed Funkel, Michael fecking Skibbe and Rehhagel. Not long ago (even in the winterbreak) he praised Lukukay and tried to extend his contract. Now he sacks him two matches after the winter-break. He is incredible short sighted and result oriented. You just have to watch one PK/interview and you know that he is not up to the job.

After more than 5 years he cant shift blame. Hertha should be a established first league club, but they are not. I doubt that most Hertha fans rate him. They accept/like him for his legacy as a player, but there is just one reason why Preetz is still manager: Werner Gegenbauer.

It is one thing to 'learn' under someone and still another thing to take over a sinking ship and consolidate the club, which he did pretty well over the last few years. Preetz alone got relegated two times? No players, no coaches or other staff members to blame? Sorry, but to say one person alone is at fault for a club going down is making it way too easy, even though he played his part.

Don't get me wrong, I already said he made mistakes in the past. The Babbel story was nothing short of embarrassing, no doubt about that and sacking Favre was not the right thing to do either. Don't really know why it is a bad thing to appoint Rehagel, someone who is as experienced as you can get and known for his discipline, when you are fighting for relegation? In my eyes, Preetz learned from his mistakes and did a good job over the last two seasons, which should be put into consideration instead of still blaming him for errors he made some years ago. You wouldn't judge a players current ability with mistakes or ability he had two or three years ago, would you?

Why don't you think his transfer business isn't laudable or special? Kalou did really well for Lille and Stocker was also a regular for Basel, both got plenty of international experience and certainly had other options. The players I mentioned in my first post are also really good value for the money Hertha spent on them. He also sold Lasogga and Ramos for considerably good fees, especially if you look at how they perform at their new clubs.

He praised Luhukay at the beginning of November and he certainly meant what he said. The thing is, that they played really good for the first half of last season (2013/2014), where Hertha were in 6th place, before playing a really bad second part of the season and dropping to 11th place (only 3 victories in 17 games). Luhukay got the players he asked for over the summer, proven quality and couldn't manage to get the results for another half of the season. The fans were already calling for his head after a few games this season and he backed him until now. So thats nearly one year of bad results and an underperforming team, a lot more time than usual in my eyes. He backed him three months ago and things didn't change, so THEY (because it is not Preetz decision alone) decided that they have to make a cut now, as they are ranked on 17th place at the moment. What's wrong about that? I don't see anything short sighted there and the decision is just being questioned, because he has that reputation from decisions in the past. And yes, he is result oriented, but which board or director of football is not? That's what the business is all about and we just have to look at United last season to see that. And even now some people are or were already questioning van Gaal after a few bad results around new year.

Of course a lot of Hertha fans aren't rating Preetz, but how many directors of football are highly rated by their own supporters? How many of the football fans you actually know really know what they are talking about? In Germany a lot of people questioned Löw before and even now after the World Cup. Does that mean that he doesn't have a clue or is doing a bad job? I wouldn't measure everything based on the opinion of some fans. And yes, Gegenbauer is a reason why Preetz is still there as he seems to rate him. But Gegenbauers fate as president is also dependend on how Preetz is doing, because he backed him several times. Why would he still do that if Preetz is as lousy as you assume?
 
In Germany a lot of people questioned Löw before and even now after the World Cup. Does that mean that he doesn't have a clue or is doing a bad job?
He's still a bit shit, no doubt.
 
Why are those rumours about Khedira joining us in the summer not going away :( . Scary thought.

That would really be strange. Can't see him offer any more than Rode does and he is no Kroos/Thiago replacement/backup either.

Do you think Sammer is too much pushing for the "German players" agenda he often seems to be so fond off?
 
Do you think Sammer is too much pushing for the "German players" agenda he often seems to be so fond off?
No. If he wants Khedira, he's simply buying the wrong German.
 
The strangest part about Khedira is that almost every manager he has played for rates him very highly but I never met a fan of any club in the world who actually rates him. I really wonder what it is that makes so many managers rely on him so much?
Yeah, let's hope Mourinho remembers what it is and intervenes.
 
He's still a bit shit, no doubt.

Yeah, winning the World Cup and finishing 2nd in 2008 and 3rd in 2010 certainly proves that he is a bit shit. Forgot about that ...
 
It is one thing to 'learn' under someone and still another thing to take over a sinking ship and consolidate the club, which he did pretty well over the last few years. Preetz alone got relegated two times? No players, no coaches or other staff members to blame? Sorry, but to say one person alone is at fault for a club going down is making it way too easy, even though he played his part.

Don't get me wrong, I already said he made mistakes in the past. The Babbel story was nothing short of embarrassing, no doubt about that and sacking Favre was not the right thing to do either. Don't really know why it is a bad thing to appoint Rehagel, someone who is as experienced as you can get and known for his discipline, when you are fighting for relegation? In my eyes, Preetz learned from his mistakes and did a good job over the last two seasons, which should be put into consideration instead of still blaming him for errors he made some years ago. You wouldn't judge a players current ability with mistakes or ability he had two or three years ago, would you?

Why don't you think his transfer business isn't laudable or special? Kalou did really well for Lille and Stocker was also a regular for Basel, both got plenty of international experience and certainly had other options. The players I mentioned in my first post are also really good value for the money Hertha spent on them. He also sold Lasogga and Ramos for considerably good fees, especially if you look at how they perform at their new clubs.

He praised Luhukay at the beginning of November and he certainly meant what he said. The thing is, that they played really good for the first half of last season (2013/2014), where Hertha were in 6th place, before playing a really bad second part of the season and dropping to 11th place (only 3 victories in 17 games). Luhukay got the players he asked for over the summer, proven quality and couldn't manage to get the results for another half of the season. The fans were already calling for his head after a few games this season and he backed him until now. So thats nearly one year of bad results and an underperforming team, a lot more time than usual in my eyes. He backed him three months ago and things didn't change, so THEY (because it is not Preetz decision alone) decided that they have to make a cut now, as they are ranked on 17th place at the moment. What's wrong about that? I don't see anything short sighted there and the decision is just being questioned, because he has that reputation from decisions in the past. And yes, he is result oriented, but which board or director of football is not? That's what the business is all about and we just have to look at United last season to see that. And even now some people are or were already questioning van Gaal after a few bad results around new year.

Of course a lot of Hertha fans aren't rating Preetz, but how many directors of football are highly rated by their own supporters? How many of the football fans you actually know really know what they are talking about? In Germany a lot of people questioned Löw before and even now after the World Cup. Does that mean that he doesn't have a clue or is doing a bad job? I wouldn't measure everything based on the opinion of some fans. And yes, Gegenbauer is a reason why Preetz is still there as he seems to rate him. But Gegenbauers fate as president is also dependend on how Preetz is doing, because he backed him several times. Why would he still do that if Preetz is as lousy as you assume?


I am not blaming only him. The managers and players are also responsible. Hertha had truly terrible manager and bad players but isnt that also his responsibility? He picked them. Rehhagel was completely out of the game and did jack-shit. He did a terrible job and any 12er old could tell you that Skibbe isn't a good manager.
You also don't get a medal for sticking to a manager as long as possible. I honestly don't know if Luhukay was still the right guy for Hertha. Maybe he was. Maybe he wasn't. Regardless it is a staggering decision to sack him two games after the winterbreak. If the team is underperforming for one year you might want to analyse that and fix it. Either the squad isnt good enough or the manager doesnt do a good job. Non of those things change during two games. Sack him during the summer and bring in a better manager or do it during the winterbreak, if you really have to change things. He´ll only react to those things, when shit hit the fan. He doesn't have the balls and the expertise to make good decisions at the right time.
Thats just not good management. The comparison to Manchester United is actually surprisingly accurate: shambolic management. Woody is clueless when he has to make non-business related decisions. The difference is that United can throw money at problems - a luxury, that Hertha cannot afford.

If I look at the squad, Hertha is where I expect them to be: relegation battle. Getting Kalou sounds good, but he is not a starter. So I dont know how you can be so happy about this transfer. He surely is one of the top-earner. I also dont see much talent in your squad. Stocker and Schulz might be the two exceptions. Overall his transfer dealings are not bad, but they aren't great either.

Are you satisfied with the situation? Is that really as good as it gets for Hertha? that would be incredibly depressing. At this point he should have established Hertha as mid-table club, that isn't in permanent danger of going down.
 
According to Bild Tuchel already agreed to take over at RB Leipzig. Should be an interesting combination, Tuchel + Rangnick + money definitely has a lot of potential. If it's true, the obvious candidate to follow Klopp is gone in case the worst case really happens. (I know that Watzke again said today that Klopp's job isn't in question, but a loss in Freiburg could force his hands.)
 
According to Bild Tuchel already agreed to take over at RB Leipzig. Should be an interesting combination, Tuchel + Rangnick + money definitely has a lot of potential. If it's true, it also leaves the question, who could potentially follow Klopp.
for me thats nailed on for quite some time now. It makes way too much sense. I honestly think, that it will chance german football quite a bit. For the better or worse is a matter of perspective, but the quality at the top end will increase dramatically.
 
That table burns the eyes from a United and Premier League standpoint. How Bayern have managed to assemble their great team with so much less money than us, it's shocking really. Premier league teams are so incredibly wasteful. Even if prices generally are higher for English teams due to the greater money in the league.
Getting to cherrypick and having first dibs from a generation of the best young talent in world football has something to do with it.
Plus having the best players from their rivals sit ou their contracts and joining them on frees is a bonus as well.
 
for me thats nailed on for quite some time now. It makes way too much sense. I honestly think, that it will chance german football quite a bit. For the better or worse is a matter of perspective, but the quality at the top end will increase dramatically.
Yes, if VW and Red Bull really want success now, we have our own Chelsea and City and it definitely will change the Bundesliga a lot.
 
Getting to cherrypick and having first dibs from a generation of the best young talent in world football has something to do with it.
Plus having the best players from their rivals sit ou their contracts and joining them on frees is a bonus as well.
Yeah, that's how we did it :rolleyes:
 
According to Bild Tuchel already agreed to take over at RB Leipzig. Should be an interesting combination, Tuchel + Rangnick + money definitely has a lot of potential. If it's true, the obvious candidate to follow Klopp is gone in case the worst case really happens. (I know that Watzke again said today that Klopp's job isn't in question, but a loss in Freiburg could force his hands.)

Well... If Dortmund and Klopp decide to part ways it'll probably happen (or at least be known) before the end of season, so if Tuchel hasn't signed anything yet they could probably still hijack a possible agreement between him and Leipzig.
 
Well... If Dortmund and Klopp decide to part ways it'll probably happen (or at least be known) before the end of season, so if Tuchel hasn't signed anything yet they could probably still hijack a possible agreement between him and Leipzig.

I am not so sure about that. Whoever takes over from Klopp will be in a very difficult situation. Expectations are incredibly high and there will be pressure from the first day. Dortmund already invested heavily in their squad and their idea of how to play football (which is quite different from what tuchel likes). He cant just buy 5-6 new starter.
Its quite a different story with RB. He has a young and talented core, but can rebuild everything else like he wants to. He would have time and little pressure. If he wanted to manage a good bundesliga club he could have gone to Schalke or Leverkusen. Leipzig is perfect for him.
 
I am not so sure about that. Whoever takes over from Klopp will be in a very difficult situation. Expectations are incredibly high and there will be pressure from the first day. Dortmund already invested heavily in their squad and their idea of how to play football (which is quite different from what tuchel likes). He cant just buy 5-6 new starter.
Its quite a different story with RB. He has a young and talented core, but can rebuild everything else like he wants to. He would have time and little pressure. If he wanted to manage a good bundesliga club he could have gone to Schalke or Leverkusen. Leipzig is perfect for him.


I don't think Dortmund's squad would limit a new coach a lot - aside from Immobile and left backs probably, the summer's budget could also be sizable again if Reus and Gündogan leave..
If on the other hand Leipzig invest very heavily (in order to get a squad comparable to Dortmund's) then there certainly would be a lot of pressure attached. Both Dortmunds officials and fans have also shown a lot of patience this season.
 
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So getting the best German talents at knockdown prices doesn't affect net spend?
Isn't this basic math?

Have you actually taken a basic look at Bayern's squad? There's a lot of competition for German talents, because unlike the PL literally every club wants a couple of them for themselves.
And while Bayern certainly have the biggest name and best first team in Germany there are also clubs like Gladbach, Leverkusen and Wolfsburg (and formerly Dortmund) that are very attractive for young players because they offer a good chance at first team football.
 
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Have you actually taken a basic look at Bayern's squad?
German based players don't like leaving Germany by and large, fantastic club and all but if Gotze and. lewandoski were in the open market you could add 100m to Bayerns net spend. Couple that with German football having the best youth setup with the best national squad in world football, that's why their net spend is so low.
How am I wrong?