Poor CL game week for the bundesliga teams. Schalke, Leverkusen, Bayern and Dortmund all losing.
Bundesliga, DFB Cup, and other Bundesliga business 2014/2015
- Thread starter ManniKaltz
- Start date
Maybe it's time to create a knee jerk 'why do bundesliga clubs suck in the CL' thread
I know you aren't really serious but:
3 of the 4 teams are already through to the next round and Schalke can still finish 2nd.
I expected a couple of losses, when you know you are already qualified you never play at 100%. And when you're not totally focussed while the other team has to go all out to win you often get results like this. Look at Real Madrid, could've easily lost that game against Basel tonight.
I'm happy that Leverkusen lost though, just a joy to see them bottle it once again. They are a real phenomenon.
When you look at the resources clubs from other countries have and compare that to the PL teams I think it's very reasonable to ask why many English clubs are playing poorly in the CL. Just as a comparison, Liverpool spent 100+ Million on transfers in the summer while Schalkes "biggest" transfer was Sidney Sam with 2.5 Million €.
Really? Wth even us spent more than that on Ryan Gauld (3 millions) and he's still stuck in the B team. Didn't knew Schalke had this kind of financial restrictions.
Schalke is mainly living from their youth work. And they have a bigger injury crisis since more than one season than e.g. Dortmund has - it is just not talked as much about it as you do it with Dortmund.
They paid 4.4 million this season for transfers - and got 8 million, last year 26m and got 7m.
That is the injury table of the Bundesliga. Schalke's players missed in average 72 days last season, Dortmund's players 64, Bayern's 42, Gladbach's 27.
Well that explains alot. I wasn't expecting such a poor Schalke because i remember them playing pretty decent football against Porto for the Champions League some years ago. Had another image of their football. That injury list is really something else. Oh by the way, nothing wrong living off youth rank work (it's the tradition at my club) but of course it's harder to compete against big spending opponents. Sporting faces exactly the same problem against Porto and Benfica. Even so they can still qualify. We have to draw at least at Stamford Bridge and Schalke even with all their problems will be favourites against Maribor.
Still can't believe why so many people in Germany jump on the bandwagon to call Leverkusen an embarassment for Germany in Europe. That sentence of yours is nothing but knee jerking without much thought. I've seen almost all German games in Europe over the past seasons, mostly streaming multiple at a time, and yes Leverkusen got fecked badly by Barca, United, and PSG. But that's it. Monaco had two absolutely ridiculous 1-0 wins over Leverkusen where they had 2 shots on goal in both games combined and scored off both despite Leverkusen being clearly the better team. Leverkusen have pased from groups with Chelsea+Valencia, United+RealSociedad+Shakhtar, Zenit+Benfica+Monaco lately. How is that bottling? Leverkusen is constantly finishing above teams that are equally good to them in the CL yet they're being labeled as bottlers. They're still leading their group.
Schalke have been the real bottlers as of late. They have much bigger possibilities than Leverkusen and should be doing better with their squad and their aspirations. What about their games vs United, their games vs Madrid, and their games vs Chelsea?! Those were perhaps even worse than Leverkusen's big games because Schalke is clearly the bigger club. They should be doing an awful lot better in a group with Sporting (no offense Sly) and Maribor. Their performances have been beyond awful.
Non taken mate. Almost all Sporting supporters thought we were going to be third (and it will likely be so). But football is played on the pitch and the fact is we have been superior to Schalke and should be qualified by now if it wasn't for the Gazprom sponsored ref who gave that handball penalty call for a play that clearly hit Sporting's player head. But Schalke aren't as bad as they look, that injury list really puts a dent on their aspirations.
I know you aren't really serious but:
3 of the 4 teams are already through to the next round and Schalke can still finish 2nd.
I expected a couple of losses, when you know you are already qualified you never play at 100%. And when you're not totally focussed while the other team has to go all out to win you often get results like this. Look at Real Madrid, could've easily lost that game against Basel tonight.
I'm happy that Leverkusen lost though, just a joy to see them bottle it once again. They are a real phenomenon.
When you look at the resources clubs from other countries have and compare that to the PL teams I think it's very reasonable to ask why many English clubs are playing poorly in the CL. Just as a comparison, Liverpool spent 100+ Million on transfers in the summer while Schalkes "biggest" transfer was Sidney Sam with 2.5 Million €.
You can criticise the English clubs in CL all you want this season. I don't mind it at all. In fact I'll join you guys willingly, Liverpool is shite, so are Arsenal and City.
I think the fact that English clubs earn a shitload of cash revenue wise has something to do with it. A lot of domestic players and players in the league get overpriced as it is in relative to the clubs in the league's transfer budget.
For instance if a German mid table club wants to buy an average midfielder within the league, then they'll spend about 3m but in England they'll probably pay 8m for an average midfielder. That's just the way the English market is and the English players being generally poor on average, only serves to exaggerate the problem. The domestic player rule doesn't help at all as well.
I think Fulham in the championship after being relegated, paid a ludicrous 11m pounds for a championship player this season. Wilfried Zaha a promising young player but someone who's never played in the first division went for a reported 10-15m pounds when Jesus Navas went for 14m the same season.
Let's not forget how Fergie was preaching about value in the market and wasn't too reckless in his spending at that time, yet went for a relatively unproven player at that price. The inflation was simply due to Zaha being in England.
Teams should look to recruit more overseas players but I'm sure these clubs will know about the English clubs financial strength and will demand inflated prices. There is also the question mark over whether these players can settle in or not. The best solution would be to have a established scouting network overseas to snatch cheap gems but many clubs don't have that kind of resources. Newcastle did a decent job in the French market but it is still hit and miss. More English teams should be looking to follow down that route if you ask me but some aren't able to or prefer to remain in their comfort zones by buying the established players within England.
Edit: Was talking about the English clubs as a whole and not the CL clubs in isolation.
Where exactly did I say that Leverkusen is an embarrassment in Europe? I simply called them bottlers and the game yesterday was the perfect example for that. After Drmic shot it wide right in front of goal you just knew that Leverkusen would lose that game. I know they are already through but they simply needed one point against a weak Monaco side to secure the top spot. Now they have to travel to Lisbon in a few weeks and just hope that Benfica won't care that much about the match.
With Leverkusen I'm not even only talking about European performances but also all the other games in recent times. Just look at this season, bottle it against Paderborn late in the game, can't win a game against Stuttgart being 3:0 up at HT, should've been eliminated by Magdeburg in the Cup etc.
I know that they got good results against teams like Shaktar and Zenit and I gave them credit for it, but there's just too many games where they can't hold on to a lead against a mediocre team or make a total fool of themselves against a good team.
I guess I should really like them as they pretty much helped us stay in the Bundesliga last season and helped us get back on track this year but too much happened between Hamburg and Leverkusen in recent times.
At least the German media don't come up with silly excuses and call it like it is, an embarrassement. This matchday was always going to suck with the way the groups had played out and the result between Leverkusen and Monaco was the only surprise for me. I like the look of that Leverkusen side and they deserved way way more than two 0-1 losses in the games against Monaco. I hope they finish the job and still finish 1st in the group, they were easily the best team in their group so far. Wolfsburg is also in a tricky position and can't afford to lose today against Everton, I hope they manage to get a result. Losing all 4 games against English team this matchday would really, really suck in the fight for 2nd place in UEFA's 5 year ranking.
I don't see a problem in Schalke not buying as long as they can keep their talented young players. They were right in spending their money on higher wages for the talents they have. Their biggest problem is the choice of managers and the injury crisis of course sucks. I just read that Matip is out for the rest of the year after only two games since his return. Incredible.
The development at Dortmund is a bit worrying though. They lost their invincibility midweek now and maybe that's actually a good thing, because there are no more excuses for bad performances on the weekend. Klopp needs to find a way to stabilise the defense quickly and just as important, he needs to get his new additions going instantly. Besides a few exceptions (basically only Kagawa 4 years ago) basically all new signings need almost a year to find their best form again and work within the team, that's not good enough.
I don't see a problem in Schalke not buying as long as they can keep their talented young players. They were right in spending their money on higher wages for the talents they have. Their biggest problem is the choice of managers and the injury crisis of course sucks. I just read that Matip is out for the rest of the year after only two games since his return. Incredible.
The development at Dortmund is a bit worrying though. They lost their invincibility midweek now and maybe that's actually a good thing, because there are no more excuses for bad performances on the weekend. Klopp needs to find a way to stabilise the defense quickly and just as important, he needs to get his new additions going instantly. Besides a few exceptions (basically only Kagawa 4 years ago) basically all new signings need almost a year to find their best form again and work within the team, that's not good enough.
After that european week some news to forget it.
From Bayerns annual members meeting:
"The excellent season on the field has now been matched off it as the club announced landmark financial results for the 2013/14 fiscal year including record turnover of €528.7 million and profit after tax of €16.5 million."
"The turnover figure for FC Bayern München AG group (consolidated accounts for FC Bayern München AG, Allianz Arena München Stadion GmbH and all subsidiaries) rose by 22 percent compared to the then record figure of €432.8 million from the historic treble-winning 2012/13 season."
"FC Bayern München AG, the joint stock company responsible for the club’s professional football operations, achieved similar results. Turnover rose year-on-year to €480.0 million (2012/13: €393.9 million). FC Bayern München AG boastsequity capital totalling €405.0 million, almost double (+41 percent) last year’s €286.8 million and “the best in world football,” Dreesen said. On top of that, there’s the news we’ve paid off the Allianz Arena, which now belongs to FC Bayern once and for all!”
And Bayern should have the most members in the word with over 250.000. Those numbers! What a year! To make nearly 100 million more then last year when we won the treble is unbelievable.
Our merchandising money exploded the last years;
2010/11: £35.4m
2011/12: £45.7m
2012/13: £65.9m
2013/14: £83.8m!
Our equity is 405 million, up 41 percent from last year!
And no debts. Richest club in world football. All that without any rich owner. Thanks Uli, Kalle and everyone in the club!
From Bayerns annual members meeting:
"The excellent season on the field has now been matched off it as the club announced landmark financial results for the 2013/14 fiscal year including record turnover of €528.7 million and profit after tax of €16.5 million."
"The turnover figure for FC Bayern München AG group (consolidated accounts for FC Bayern München AG, Allianz Arena München Stadion GmbH and all subsidiaries) rose by 22 percent compared to the then record figure of €432.8 million from the historic treble-winning 2012/13 season."
"FC Bayern München AG, the joint stock company responsible for the club’s professional football operations, achieved similar results. Turnover rose year-on-year to €480.0 million (2012/13: €393.9 million). FC Bayern München AG boastsequity capital totalling €405.0 million, almost double (+41 percent) last year’s €286.8 million and “the best in world football,” Dreesen said. On top of that, there’s the news we’ve paid off the Allianz Arena, which now belongs to FC Bayern once and for all!”
And Bayern should have the most members in the word with over 250.000. Those numbers! What a year! To make nearly 100 million more then last year when we won the treble is unbelievable.
Our merchandising money exploded the last years;
2010/11: £35.4m
2011/12: £45.7m
2012/13: £65.9m
2013/14: £83.8m!
Our equity is 405 million, up 41 percent from last year!
And no debts. Richest club in world football. All that without any rich owner. Thanks Uli, Kalle and everyone in the club!
Matchday 13, 28/11/14 - 30/11/14: Dortmund hit rock bottom
Dortmund currently bottom of the Bundesliga and will stay there if they lose away to Frankfurt tomorrow. Klopp out!!
I can't believe Dortmund are last. Absolutely incredible.
Dortmund currently bottom of the Bundesliga and will stay there if they lose away to Frankfurt tomorrow. Klopp out!!
It even looks impressive...
Just for all results:
Some high scoring matches. The CL teams that lost in the weeks all did win. Stuttgart - new coach - won. Werder had its highest win in ages. And Hamburg just is Hamburg...
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12 points between second and last
10 points between second and first.
10 points between second and first.
So Leverkusen finally decided to give Drmic a shot (coming on in the 2nd half for 45mins). Scored twice and got an assist. Watch him be benched again.
You mean - as much goals and assists as Kießling had in 13 matches?
Indeed, not sure why he gets the nod over Drmic myself.
Frankfurt are leading already against Dortmund
"2.Liga...Dortmund ist bald dabei"
"2.Liga...Dortmund ist bald dabei"
Good start for Dortmund. Looks like the relegation fight this season is going to be a harsh reality for them.
I can't believe many are thinking CL qualification is still so easy reachable for them
They must win a lot of times in a row and others must lose then too their matches
Has a team with no much quality on paper ever done so badly in their league in recent times? If they lose this Lollops job is surely on the line?
Dortmund wake up.
Lollop.
Lollop.
Are Dortmund going down..?
Schalke were 14th in the 2011-2012 season....but that squad was surely miles away from the quality of this Dortmund squad
Only you Rob can save Dortmund with your bets
I'm pretty sure they will have to fight hard this season not to go down. I mean by now it should be clear that it's more than just a bad phase that will blow over after a win. CL is pretty much out of the picture atm I would say.
If a big club are in a relegation fight then you must "fight" and not to try to play well.....most of the Dortmund players probably haven't understand that so far
Surely they're not going to end up anywhere near relegation in 6 months time?! In recent memory Ole's Molde were terrible for a surprisingly long time in his last season there, after winning their league the previous two seasons. But they hit form in the towards the end of the season to sneak into the top half and win their domestic cup.
I remember everyone....EVERYONE.....has said the same about Leeds 10 years ago
I don't think they're going down......but like said they must start to fight
Hate seeing Kagawa wasted at Dortmund. Klopp, Ferguson, Moyes and LVG haven't even able to get the best out of him now he should move back to the Japanese second division where he would be played in his proper position
Leeds in the season they got relegated and this Dortmund team are miles apart in terms of quality. Leeds were thought to be "too good to go down" on reputation but it was coming. When they went down, the team had already lost some of the better players. I am now doubting Dortmund to get back into CL places, but they will not be a contender for relegation. You are right though, they must fight harder and not keep falling behind like this.
If they could also get Obertan to join them they would tear that league apart.
It's not that far off to be fair.
At the moment 4th is Augsburg and they will certainly go down in the table soon and they are 9/10 points away from the CL spot(if they lose today). Add to that - in the next matches Gladbach, Leverkusen, Augsburg, Bayern all play each other this month so probably all will lose points and Dortmund play at home Hoffenheim and Wolfsburg(not very good away sides) so they can catch up.
It's not like their season is over.
A couple of weeks ago I was of the opinion that Dortmund will still finish comfortably in top 4 but a loss today would mean they are 12 points behind Wolfsburg and Leverkusen, 9 behind Gladbach and Schalke. These are all good teams that are not very likely to all go on a atrocious run. With 21 games to spare you would imagine Dortmund are going to need 60 points to finish in top 4 and getting 49 out of remaining 63 for a team that only managed 11 out of 39 so far is too much to ask IMO. Realistically they need to cut the gap to 4th down to 5-6 points when half of the season has passed.
Of course Dortmund have a bit more quality than this Leeds team.....but this Dortmund team today are far away from a world-class team (Kehl, Ginter or Durm are meh......and many players are in poorm form like Kagawa)
"Too good to go down" are probably the better words
No way are they going to be relegated. Only the two last placed teams will go down and they need to win about 5-6 games between now and the end of season with a few draws mixed in between to stay up.
Entertaining as Dortmund's downfall this season is, they could at least beat Eintracht. Please.
Very little chance of relegation I would say. When you're at the bottom a few wins can jump you a lot of places. Champ league looking dodgy though.
Subotic is miles away from his best form.