Bundesliga, DFB Cup, and other Bundesliga business 2014/2015

But his game outside of the box is so over-rated......i think he's made 4-5 mistakes this season in that case and he's only lucky that it was unpunished so far. One mistake like that in the Algeria match and people would still laugh about him.

I used to have that view too but Neuer's displays have convinced me otherwise tbh. It's only natural that he will get some decisions wrong and commit a few errors when playing as an adventurous sweeper keeper behind a high line (such as the game against Real last season where he was having a mare and almost cost his team 2 goals with his reckless charges off the box). However, his positive and game winning performances far outweigh the few inevitable errors that arise from his risky game play imo.

One mistake like that in the Algeria match and people would still laugh about him.

It just shows how hard his role is as a sweeper keeper where he's virtually risking a red card on every one of his charges forward but he's generally excelled at that role, highlighting his immense pedigree. A great goalkeeping display by him could all be undone by a single misjudgment which potentially costs his team the game. It makes for entertaining viewing for a neutral but perhaps more nervy ones for Bayern fans, even though they have the utmost confidence in him.

I see where you're coming from, but that's what separates the top keepers from the rest. They need to be awake in the one moment that counts. Neuer does that as far as I've seen. Multiple keepers have spoken about how it's easier to play a game when your goal is attacked throughout, as opposed to games when the opposition gets one or two chances.

Agreed. It is much harder to maintain focus in games where you are inactive for large periods of the game.
 
I think his rushing out of goal is precisely what makes Neuer by far the best goal keeper in the world. You can always argue who is the better shot stopper, but he preemtively defuses so many (great) attacks with his charges. You call them reckless and argue what would happen if he miscalculates, but how often does it go wrong (according to the transfermarkt-database they guy hasn't been sent off even once in his career - 542 games) and what would happen if he didn't defuse so many attacks preemtively, isn't a 1on1 where he can get to the ball first or at the very least up in the face of the attacker better than a 1on1 where the attacker has the time and space to place is cross or shot?
 
Hi Balu what are your thoughts on Gundogan these days will he ever reach those same heights pre injury and do you think he would be a good buy for United in the summer? Many Thanks
I'll take it over here, so that we aren't totally offtopic.

There were moments, when he looked like he could become his former self again. A few impressive games, but overall he often got dragged back into Dortmund's general problems, so it's difficult to say. Sahin has been more impressive since his return from injury than Gündogan in my opinion. Early days though. Gündogan will most likely start for Germany today against Australia. Should be interesting to see.
 
For any germans who do you expect to start in the game Vs Australia tomorrow/tonight?
Difficult to say. Löw could use the chance to experiment with tactics with the first XI (for example a back three), he could use it to play the strongest team to get find some rhythm, because we really need to win the game in Georgia on Sunday or he could give playing time to a few relatively new additions to find out if they're good enough.

I expect one of Weidenfeller or Zieler in goal, Neuer is definitely out for the game. It should be Zieler. Badstuber and Gündogan could get a start or at least play the 2nd half, the rest of the team will probably be mostly first choice. Maybe Hector at leftback.

If I had to guess, then I'd say something like

Zieler - Boateng, Hummels, Höwedes, Hector - Schweinsteiger, Gündogan, Kroos - Özil, Müller, Reus

will start and then Weidenfeller, Götze, Badstuber, Bellarabi, Kramer, Kruse will come on at halftime. Is there a limit for the number of substitutions?
 
will start and then Weidenfeller, Götze, Badstuber, Bellarabi, Kramer, Kruse will come on at halftime. Is there a limit for the number of substitutions?

The new limit is 6 substitutions in friendlies if I remember correctly. So one of the 6 you listed will have to sit out and watch Podolski clown around once more.
 
The new limit is 6 substitutions in friendlies if I remember correctly. So one of the 6 you listed will have to sit out and watch Podolski clown around once more.
He probably starts as a 2nd striker in a weird 352 anyway :(
 
Yeah, everyone makes mistakes, but when you look at how shakey our defence is compared to Bayerns machine, it's hard to give it to Neuer, he spends 99% of games asleep. Everyone thinks Neuer's title as best keeper has been there for years now, and I think it'll be there till he retires, people just get into the habit of thinking he's the best keeper and continue with it. That said I don't watch all Bundesliga games so he might be superman in them all, but the ones I see he rarely does anything.

Neuer has to do his fair share in games. The best save rate in the league.
And he was a monster at Schalke and there he had defences that were levels behind anything De Gea ever had. And come on. Its still United and a United defence you are talking about.
Neuer was voted the best goalkeeper of the Bundesliga in the 2006/07 season. He is among the best since 2008 and THE best since 2012 or 2013.
Voted among the 5 best keepers since 2011. World champion, CL winner and he could reach his 5th CL semi-final this year. Ferguson has 7.
He is the best keeper in the world and will be for years to come. Everyone makes mistakes. His first one that was followed by a goal in the league since late 2013.
 
For any germans who do you expect to start in the game Vs Australia tomorrow/tonight?
Zieler – Mustafi, Höwedes, Badstuber – Khedira – Bellarabi, Gündogan, Özil, Hector – Götze, Reus

That one was really impossible to predict. I have no idea what that's supposed to be.
 
Eh just tuned in for Germany´s match and you guys are losing 2-1 to Australia :eek: There goes my acca
 
Eh just tuned in for Germany´s match and you guys are losing 2-1 to Australia :eek: There goes my acca
Our record in friendlies is shocking in recent years, stupid idea to bet on us to be honest :lol:.

Löw is such an idiot, un-fecking-believable. We struggle in our qualifying group, have no cohesion at all, no clear plan and never came close to have a fixed line-up since the World Cup and he wastes a friendly with totally stupid tactical experiments. It's so annoying.
 
Our record in friendlies is shocking in recent years, stupid idea to bet on us to be honest :lol:.

Löw is such an idiot, un-fecking-believable. We struggle in our qualifying group, have no cohesion at all, no clear plan and never came close to have a fixed line-up since the World Cup and he wastes a friendly with totally stupid tactical experiments. It's so annoying.

Was just a crappy acca i did before going to work. Anyways Podolski the unloved scored the 2-2.
 
Our record in friendlies is shocking in recent years, stupid idea to bet on us to be honest :lol:.

Löw is such an idiot, un-fecking-believable. We struggle in our qualifying group, have no cohesion at all, no clear plan and never came close to have a fixed line-up since the World Cup and he wastes a friendly with totally stupid tactical experiments. It's so annoying.

Are you really surprised? It´s not really new that Löw likes to be fancy for a long time before actually working on a viable formation. Remember how long it took him to actually figure out a solid back line? And even there he was forced into the most important tactical decision of the WC (Lahm back to RB) by an injury.

Podolski has now also "justified" his call up once again despite being awful on club level....
 
No Boateng, no Schweinsteiger, no Kroos, no Neuer, no Hummels, no Müller...

...or does anybody think that they will not start Sunday...
 
Are you really surprised? It´s not really new that Löw likes to be fancy for a long time before actually working on a viable formation. Remember how long it took him to actually figure out a solid back line? And even there he was forced into the most important tactical decision of the WC (Lahm back to RB) by an injury.
Yeah, of course I remember. It makes it so frustrating. It's like he doesn't even know what made Germany great at the World Cup and has to do something different for the sake of it. He did the same after the World Cup in 2010, totally destroyed the chemistry between Özil, Müller and Klose and cost us the chance to win the Euro because of it. The worst part about it is, that as a national team manager he doesn't even have enough time to implement all his silly ideas. Coaching a nationalteam always means you have to be pragmatic and build on someting that's already there, take a core from one of the clubs and build around it. You don't get enough time with your squad to be creative. That pragmatism was all of a sudden there shortly before the World Cup in Brazil, I've no idea where it came from, but it won us the title. It's completely gone again and I'm not sure if Löw again goes back to it for the Euro 2016 :(. He should quit and take over a club, if that's so important to him. Maybe he's actually a better coach than I give him credit for. His way is definitely the wrong choice for the nationalteam.
 
Last edited:
Is anyone worried about Mario Goetze? He doesn't seem to be reaching his full potential. He's still a very good player that lots of clubs would like to have but he seems stuck at his current level. In his early Dortmund years he looked like he could be the greatest ever German player, just an extraordinary talent. But watching him tonight he seemed just like he always does for Bayern. A couple of nice moments and maybe pop up with a goal or two. But nothing major. Even in the world cup, he had nothing spectacular except for his fabulous goal in the final. Yes, it was a great moment but a player of his ability should have a bigger impact.

Reus has moved ahead of him as the best German of this generation at the moment. He's still young so he could definitely reach his full potential but the past two years his level hasn't really improved. Mesut Ozil gets so much more criticism but I never see any real difference between him and Goetze. Just seems like Goetze is the golden boy so is allowed to get away with it. Anyone agree?
 
Is anyone worried about Mario Goetze?
Yes and no. His development has certainly stagnated, which is a bit worrying. But I saw often enough promising signs that he's still on his way to fulfill his potential. I think it really hurts him that Guardiola moves him around so often, constantly playing different positions and different roles, from left or right wing over false 9 to CM roles. When he got an extended run in that slightly left sided, but still central attacking midfield role, he looked excellent, improved with any game. Many facets of his game have certainly improved but a few exciting ones got lost on the way.

He gets his fair share of criticism though, similar to Özil. In both cases, some of the criticism is unfair and some of it is warranted.
 
Is anyone worried about Mario Goetze? He doesn't seem to be reaching his full potential. He's still a very good player that lots of clubs would like to have but he seems stuck at his current level. In his early Dortmund years he looked like he could be the greatest ever German player, just an extraordinary talent. But watching him tonight he seemed just like he always does for Bayern. A couple of nice moments and maybe pop up with a goal or two. But nothing major. Even in the world cup, he had nothing spectacular except for his fabulous goal in the final. Yes, it was a great moment but a player of his ability should have a bigger impact.

Reus has moved ahead of him as the best German of this generation at the moment. He's still young so he could definitely reach his full potential but the past two years his level hasn't really improved. Mesut Ozil gets so much more criticism but I never see any real difference between him and Goetze. Just seems like Goetze is the golden boy so is allowed to get away with it. Anyone agree?

Really? Because he won two Supercups?

Götze is great on the ball and a big technican. At Dortmund he was the big assistant - but in a team in which especially at that time the movement etc. was teached. Having the great technic and ball treatment helps a lot. Even at that time he barely had assists in the national team where you just do not have the time to plan moves. I somehow have the feeling he is more in love with the ball than he is with the game itself. He has the ball treatment and technic - but somehow he lacks the eye for the fellow players. It is others that service him - not vice versa how it somehow should be.
 
Really? Because he won two Supercups?

Götze is great on the ball and a big technican. At Dortmund he was the big assistant - but in a team in which especially at that time the movement etc. was teached. Having the great technic and ball treatment helps a lot. Even at that time he barely had assists in the national team where you just do not have the time to plan moves. I somehow have the feeling he is more in love with the ball than he is with the game itself. He has the ball treatment and technic - but somehow he lacks the eye for the fellow players. It is others that service him - not vice versa how it somehow should be.

No, because his level of play has been better than Goetze the last two years. Reus is in the group just below Ronaldo and Messi, which is ahead of the other German players. You must think Pizarro is a super striker considering his trophy haul.
 
Yes and no. His development has certainly stagnated, which is a bit worrying. But I saw often enough promising signs that he's still on his way to fulfill his potential. I think it really hurts him that Guardiola moves him around so often, constantly playing different positions and different roles, from left or right wing over false 9 to CM roles. When he got an extended run in that slightly left sided, but still central attacking midfield role, he looked excellent, improved with any game. Many facets of his game have certainly improved but a few exciting ones got lost on the way.

He gets his fair share of criticism though, similar to Özil. In both cases, some of the criticism is unfair and some of it is warranted.

I agree that Guardiola's constant changing of position for him has not helped. More than most managers I think each position is unique for Guardiola with different requirements of each so moving a player from the left to CM has a bigger impact than at other clubs where there isn't as much emphasis on space and the movement within it. It's not ideal for players to move within any team, but with Guardiola it's less so.
 
No, because his level of play has been better than Goetze the last two years. Reus is in the group just below Ronaldo and Messi, which is ahead of the other German players. You must think Pizarro is a super striker considering his trophy haul.

No. But I do not know why Reus should be there who has been doing nothing by now besides being a good counter attacking player in systems that matched to his style - and he was only good when the opponent let them play their way.

Where was he in the CL final? Last year's Cup final? Where was he the 8 months last year until the title was settled for Bayern?

There is a couple of other German players of his generation like Müller, Kroos, Boateng... - even Hummels - and they had a lot more influence in the success of their teams until now than Reus had...
 
Reus has moved ahead of him as the best German of this generation at the moment.

I'd say Müller so far has been the most outstanding of all the guys aged around or under 25.
 
I'd say Müller so far has been the most outstanding of all the guys aged around or under 25.

You mean something like being the one with the most goals and assists in the last five years in a European Top 3 club, or being the most decisive player in this club. Winning the golden boot in the German Cup twice before he was 25, winning the young player trophy at a world cup, winning a golden and a silver boot at a world cup, winning the world cup, winning the silver ball at a world cup, being 4th and 6th in the UEFA player award in 2013 and 2014, making the Ballon d'Or shortlist 4 times in the first 5 years of your career, being 3 times in a CL final, winning the CL final, being the alltime top scorer in the CL for Germany at age 25..

No - it cannot be Müller. It must be Reus. He is better on FIFA... :cool:
 
Really? Because he won two Supercups?

Götze is great on the ball and a big technican. At Dortmund he was the big assistant - but in a team in which especially at that time the movement etc. was teached. Having the great technic and ball treatment helps a lot. Even at that time he barely had assists in the national team where you just do not have the time to plan moves. I somehow have the feeling he is more in love with the ball than he is with the game itself. He has the ball treatment and technic - but somehow he lacks the eye for the fellow players. It is others that service him - not vice versa how it somehow should be.

That is not how he used to be, though. What made him special at Dortmund was how mature and consistent his play was at such a young age. Despite his great technical abilities he rarely showed off and often chose the simpler but better solution in situations. At the age of 18 he was basically their engine of the offense having a part in 80% of the attacking plays. The end product, his scorer were actually secondary. More important was his overall impact on the game, the way he could influence the game flow. Games, where he truly vanished were an absolute rarity.

The problem at Bayern is, that he has neither the standing nor the role he had at Dortmund. Despite being younger he was given more responsiblity and a less restricted role by Klopp. At Bayern the competition is more fierce, the pressure from the outside is higher and he does not enjoy any kind of special status anymore. This can very well be negative for the development for a young player. He was still far from being the finished article when he transfered after all. I stand by the same opinion I had since the transfer was announced: it came at least one season too soon for him, probably even two.
 
Can you post the stats for this here please. Appreciate it, cheers.

Müller had more match time than Robben and Ribery (but had to play with lesser players because of their injuries, too) - their by time ratio is better than his, but both were already in their prime years and Müller the talent. The data starts at the beginning of 2009/10

Müller 116 goal, 100 assists = 216
Robben 108 goals, 72 assists = 180
Ribery 71 goals, 109 assists = 180
all club competitions

I have a stats with the decisive goals/assists (lead or equalizer) somewhere, too. Müller was leading this with more than 10 goals/assists above Robben/Ribery prior to this season - and in this season he is with 13 ahead of Robben with 10 and Ribery with 7.

Basis is data from kicker - they are more generous when it means assists than whoscored is as a foul for a penalty is an assist, too.
 
No. But I do not know why Reus should be there who has been doing nothing by now besides being a good counter attacking player in systems that matched to his style - and he was only good when the opponent let them play their way.

Where was he in the CL final? Last year's Cup final? Where was he the 8 months last year until the title was settled for Bayern?

There is a couple of other German players of his generation like Müller, Kroos, Boateng... - even Hummels - and they had a lot more influence in the success of their teams until now than Reus had...

Muller, Kroos and Boateng all played on an outstanding Bayern team. Reus is playing on a good Dortmund team that had dropped from their previous high levels. Hummels was great when Dortmund were very good and winning Bundesligas and German Cups. Where is Hummels now? Is he now bad because Dortmund have had a terrible year and he hasn't singlehandedly dragged them to titles and trophies? Not everything is about trophies. Sometimes fans of big clubs like Bayern, United, Barcelona etc forget this. You can still be a wonderful player with the most talent and not finish your career with multiple trophies. I'm not telling you Goetze or the other players you mentioned are not great players, I am saying that,for me, Marco Reus is the best German talent.
 
I'd say Müller so far has been the most outstanding of all the guys aged around or under 25.

Agreed. Müller´s career can only be described as extra ordinary up until this point. I actually think that he is excluded often times because its hard to believe how young he still is given that he has been around such a long time already.

No. But I do not know why Reus should be there who has been doing nothing by now besides being a good counter attacking player in systems that matched to his style - and he was only good when the opponent let them play their way.

Where was he in the CL final? Last year's Cup final? Where was he the 8 months last year until the title was settled for Bayern?

There is a couple of other German players of his generation like Müller, Kroos, Boateng... - even Hummels - and they had a lot more influence in the success of their teams until now than Reus had...

First bold: Being the best Dortmund outfield player in the eyes of pretty much any Sports journalist, expert and the vast majority of the supporter base?

Second bold: Scoring 25 times (11 goals/14 assists) in around the same amount of games? That was before his injury. He returned to be by far their best (and also overall) player after said injury. He also scored a shit ton of game breaking goals (normally the 1:0) in every season he played for Dortmund so far. He was the reason why Dortmund could play their transition style football, because he forced the opponents into the offense making the point moot of being only good with space and counters. This also ignores his performances for the national team, which has not played counter style football since 2010.

He did not show up at the cup final, but then again no offensive player outside Robben showed up that day. It was a game with a huge lack of chances being dominated by the defenses.
 
I'd say Müller so far has been the most outstanding of all the guys aged around or under 25.

Muller has been fantastic and is probably the most effective player in the world right now. Compared to the others he probably isn't the most naturally talented but he has a great ability to have an effect on games. For me Reus is the most talented. If he was playing in an excellent Dortmund team, like the one from a few years ago, or Madrid/Barca/Bayern then I believe he would be affecting games at the highest level. When you play Dortmund Reus is the standout and you can focus on him. When you play Bayern you have Goetze, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Muller, Alaba etc.... a little harder to negate one particular player in this team. If Reus went to Bayern then I think he would be like Robben (Bayern's most important imo), the player who offers something the other's don't.
 
Muller, Kroos and Boateng all played on an outstanding Bayern team. Reus is playing on a good Dortmund team that had dropped from their previous high levels. Hummels was great when Dortmund were very good and winning Bundesligas and German Cups. Where is Hummels now? Is he now bad because Dortmund have had a terrible year and he hasn't singlehandedly dragged them to titles and trophies? Not everything is about trophies. Sometimes fans of big clubs like Bayern, United, Barcelona etc forget this. You can still be a wonderful player with the most talent and not finish your career with multiple trophies. I'm not telling you Goetze or the other players you mentioned are not great players, I am saying that,for me, Marco Reus is the best German talent.

Reus and Müller are the same age. You could potentially make a case for Reus vs. every other German player around of his age, but Müller is the exception here. He was too instrumental for Bayern´s success for that. On top of that he was extremely important for Germany. Its quite frankly not arguable from an objective stand point.
 
Muller has been fantastic and is probably the most effective player in the world right now. Compared to the others he probably isn't the most naturally talented but he has a great ability to have an effect on games. For me Reus is the most talented. If he was playing in an excellent Dortmund team, like the one from a few years ago, or Madrid/Barca/Bayern then I believe he would be affecting games at the highest level. When you play Dortmund Reus is the standout and you can focus on him. When you play Bayern you have Goetze, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Muller, Alaba etc.... a little harder to negate one particular player in this team. If Reus went to Bayern then I think he would be like Robben (Bayern's most important imo), the player who offers something the other's don't.

Reus played for the Dortmund side which reached the CL final.
 
Reus played for the Dortmund side which reached the CL final.

I know, but after that season Dortmund's level dropped significantly. I think Reus had a big jump last year and maintained it this year, although only in bits as he has been injured so often.
 
Müller definitely is the best talent of the bracket in question. Obviously Götze is younger but even at Müller's age he won't have made as incredible a mark on the sport yet.
 
Muller, Kroos and Boateng all played on an outstanding Bayern team. Reus is playing on a good Dortmund team that had dropped from their previous high levels. Hummels was great when Dortmund were very good and winning Bundesligas and German Cups. Where is Hummels now? Is he now bad because Dortmund have had a terrible year and he hasn't singlehandedly dragged them to titles and trophies? Not everything is about trophies. Sometimes fans of big clubs like Bayern, United, Barcelona etc forget this. You can still be a wonderful player with the most talent and not finish your career with multiple trophies. I'm not telling you Goetze or the other players you mentioned are not great players, I am saying that,for me, Marco Reus is the best German talent.
That's a bit odd to be honest, because he's clearly not the biggest talent (Götze or Özil) nor the player with the biggest impact in actual success (Müller above everyone else). Even the Reus - Götze comparison is questionable in recent years. I'd agree that Reus has played on a higher level than Götze in the last 2 years, when he wasn't injured. But Reus also missed a lot of key games through injuries and so far hasn't had a single match-winning performance in what could be called a big game, e.g. Kagawa vs Bayern in the cup final 2012, Lewandowski vs Real in 2013 (edit: forgot about his performance against Real last season, that's maybe one that deserves to be mentioned here). Even during their one season together at Dortmund, Götze (up until his injury in the CL semifinal) was clearly the superior player. Reus stole the show in a few CL games, where he excelled on the counter, but overall didn't have the same impact as Götze. And this season, Reus has hardly had any relevant impact to further cement his standing as the standout player in this German generation.

You pretty much have to base your claim about Reus on his fantastic 11/12 season at Gladbach and on last season, in which he was heavily criticised until he went on a run of great form in the last 3 months (I actually defended him a lot and thought his performances were underrated, but he certainly didn't stand out in this elite group of German talents). Now don't get me wrong, I rate Reus highly, but so far he hasn't even surpassed Özil's, Hummels', Khedira's (his impact at Stuttgart is a bit underrated these days) or Boateng's impact yet, let alone Müller's. That's his generation. Götze is signficantly younger and has outperformed him this season and in 12/13 and in my opinion in the first half of 11/12 as well (Götze missed the 2nd half of that season almost completely because of his injury). Add Götze's world cup winning goal as a moment of brilliance with the biggest possible impact a player can have in the game and Reus has some catching up to do to deserve the praise you give him. And I'm not saying in terms of trophies, but in terms of actual impact on his teams. If he plays next season like for Gladbach in 11/12, then you have a point, even if Dortmund don't win any trophies. But he hasn't reached that level consistently throughout a season since.

He probably was overall the best of all of them last season though and it was a shame that he missed the World Cup, no doubt.
 
Last edited:
He probably was overall the best of all of them last season though and it was a shame that he missed the World Cup, no doubt.

It would have spared us Özil if he hadn't picked up that stupid injury before the WC. But well we won the damn thing even without him so who am I to complain?

In regards to who the best player of this generation is I also have to go with Müller. Maybe he isn't as technically gifted as Götze or as fast as Reus but he certainly is one of our most important players in attack especially given the fact that we have no real strikers atm. Naturally Götze was the one who scored the winning goal either which was important as well but given his overall contribution over the years I don't think he can be considered to be at Müller's level yet.

With Götze I also sometimes wondered about his attitude. I think shortly after he joined you guys he was a bit too satisfied with himself already. He looked very unfit after the summer break and his injury, quite a bit too "round" actually, which is something that we of course have seen every now and again with Rooney but I didn't feel it was a good sign and I was afraid his attitude might put an early halt to his progress. But he seems to be back on track and improving again. Naturally it's probably still difficult for him because he hasn't found his real place in the team and gets shifted around to wherever in midfield or attack there is need of a player which like you said won't be too easy for him either.
 
Could any Bundesliga watchers tell me how Piazon and Romeu are doing at FRankfurt and Stuttgart?

Piazon didn't convince me at all in his first couple of games, also he was often only used as a sub I never felt he is anything special. But I think his performances have picked up a bit as of late.

Romeu is a bit hard to judge for me. He starts pretty much every game but never really impressed me. A reliable defensive midfielder I would say who doesn't have any outstanding characteristics in my book but of course he is also playing for one of the main relegation candidates this season so it's a bit hard to tell what he really is capable of.
 
Apparently, HSV are willing to throw a total of 38 mio € (25mio € for new transfers) at Tuchel for his signature. (Source: focus et al)

Tension is building up slowly for the BVB - FCB clash Saturday night 6:30 Gündogan is highly doubtful, Ribery is 50/50.