Bundesliga, DFB Cup, and other Bundesliga business 2014/2015

The problem is not Bayern. If you look onto the table Bayern has one loss less than Chelsea. The one or two losses against Bayern every season do not really matter so much to the other clubs but the losses they have against the other teams. The reasons are not money if a club like Augsburg with the second lowest budget of the league can perform that great - as well as right now Cologne and Paderborn.

Right now I think that the problem are tactics or strategy. A lot of the teams followed the pressing or counter attacking strategy of Dortmund - and the most of the other top club right now are not stable enough to have a recipe against them. On the other hand this counter/pressing strategy is an antidote against itself...
 
strongwalker said:
well.. almost. 1860 were 11 Mio in the red and facing immediate bancrupcy. There was a reason why they sold players of their "golden generation" rather mid-season for 400k than end of season for 2Mio (Leitner, Bender1+2, Volland) - they needed to money immediately to survive, and no bank would have touched them with a shitty stick.
Investor Hasan Ismaik muscled himself in by giving them the 11 Mio.
That would have given him more than 50% of the shares, which is forbidden by the 50+1 rule. So they gave him 49% of the shares and the rest in shares without voting rights. In the upcoming years, he upped his invest to 28-something Mio.

(Interesting side effect: 1860 is structured like many german clubs, there is the "old" Club itself (e.V.) and the pro-team which is a separate entity, but in majority owned by the club respectively its members. If the pro-team fecks up financially, the e.V. is liable)

I guess the situation is: Without Ismaik, they would have been dead. So they took his money even though they knew he would try to take over the club. I think they hoped they could hide behind DFB regulations to keeep him off their necks, but that didn't work.

Since the very start, Ismaik tried to intervene both in the ways the club was run and by whom, as well as in the team - choice of manager and coach etc. Most of which is not allowed by DFB regulations. There are members of the board and of the team management who support him and others who object him, which created a quite interesting atmosphere. Imagine the manager being pro-Ismaik and the president opposition.

Works well so far, they went thru a few coaches, adjusted season goal from "win the league" to "stay in the league", hired a couple of Ex-Barca-B-Team players all of whom are out injured and have a bunch of expensive has-beens on their payroll who do diddly-all.
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Ismael is a weird guy; no doubt. Still he didn’t “muscle himself into the club”. They were incredible desperate so they invited him. He wanted to call the shots and was fairly vocal about it. Legally that’s not possible, because of 50+1, but they had an agreement “to play ball” with him. Once he invested, they didn’t stick to this agreement and continued to make their own terrible decisions. Obviously he wasn’t happy about that and different camps started to fight each other. He isn’t the innocent victim and made many bad decisions, but they fecked him over. I can understand, that he wants to have a say about coach, manager and president. Their track record for these positions is abysmal. Every single person in the club deserves to be sacked and that’s not an exaggeration. They employed Ricardo Moniz. One call to Salzburg and they should have known that he is a fraud. Just reading the papers would have been enough.

Anyway. Sooner or later they´ll go down and that’s the end. They have no concept. They are on the brink of bankruptcy and they are still fighting each other. They always had a strong core of very loyal fans, but even they are completely fed up and stopped showing up. From now on it’s just a matter of time.
 
And Freiburg took the lead, 1-0 at half time and Dortmund is last if nothing changes :lol:
 
Balu said:
And Freiburg took the lead, 1-0 at half time and Dortmund is last if nothing changes :lol:
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And their next game is Leverkusen away so most likely they will find themselves bottom with less than half a season left to be played.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
No. Their own fault.
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BAD injury stories did their part. If they are down there after a full season with winter break and so on then we can say that.

Raoul said:
Its horrible. The Bundesliga seems to be a one club dictatorship.
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I enjoy watching the best Bundesliga team ever. And one of the best overall ever.
Would one team rule the PL the same way the English media would use that narrative.
Bayern would win the PL by some distance too.
 
anchan1989 said:
BAD injury stories did their part. If they are down there after a full season with winter break and so on then we can say that.



I enjoy watching the best Bundesliga team ever. And one of the best overall ever.
Would one team rule the PL the same way the English media would use that narrative.
Bayern would win the PL by some distance too.
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Highly doubtful they would win the PL "by some distance". It would be a three horse race more so than a runaway.
 
anchan1989 said:
BAD injury stories did their part. If they are down there after a full season with winter break and so on then we can say that.
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Other clubs in the 1.Bundesliga have a lot of injuries too.

And their injury list wasn't so bad in the last 5-6 weeks and they've still lost most matches.

A team like Dortmund can't be so bad just because of injuries.....other problems are the reasons for their place in the table.
 
Raoul said:
Highly doubtful they would win the PL "by some distance". It would be a three horse race more so than a runaway.
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Please. Who should challenge us? A City that we nearly beat with 10 man AWAY for over 60! minutes?
Or Chelsea, who are very good, but are simply not on the Real,Bayern level with Costa often out and younger players in midfield.
No. We would do that imo. Like Real would do it.
The PL is really bad this season. And Dortmunds problems come also from the fact that the BL is strong from top to bottom.
Not that easy here too.
 
Freiburg 2-0 up now. Dortmund will be bottom for the winter break.
 
anchan1989 said:
Please. Who should challenge us? A City that we nearly beat with 10 man AWAY for over 60! minutes?
Or Chelsea, who are very good, but are simply not on the Real,Bayern level with Costa often out and younger players in midfield.
No. We would do that imo. Like Real would do it.
The PL is really bad this season. And Dortmunds problems come also from the fact that the BL is strong from top to bottom.
Not that easy here too.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Goal Hannover. Game on. Very entertaining.
 
anchan1989 said:
Please. Who should challenge us? A City that we nearly beat with 10 man AWAY for over 60! minutes?
Or Chelsea, who are very good, but are simply not on the Real,Bayern level with Costa often out and younger players in midfield.
No. We would do that imo. Like Real would do it.
The PL is really bad this season. And Dortmunds problems come also from the fact that the BL is strong from top to bottom.
Not that easy here too.
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Your bias towards Bundesliga is just as bad, if not worse, than the Premier League fanboys. Reading it is becoming intolerable.
 
What's happening? Portuguese sports channel lost signal
 
Feck off missed the goal. Feckin Sporttv.
 
Señor said:
Your bias towards Bundesliga is just as bad, if not worse, than the Premier League fanboys. Reading it is becoming intolerable.
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Im talking about the Bayern team full of world champions, CL winners being the best team in the PL by some distance and about the depth of a top 3 league. I dont really know how praising these is intolerable, but when you are happy...

Sean_RedDevil said:
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
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The fact that you laugh at the depth of a top 3 league in the world is all I needed to point out.
 
Must be full time now. Very interesting round before the winter break. Enjoyed all the matches (Mainz vs Bayern, Bremen vs Dortmund and Freiburg vs Hannover). Dortmund escaping last place?
 
Bürki (Freiburg Gk) with a crucial mistake. He played the ball straight out to Joselu who scored.
 
anchan1989 said:
Please. Who should challenge us? A City that we nearly beat with 10 man AWAY for over 60! minutes?
Or Chelsea, who are very good, but are simply not on the Real,Bayern level with Costa often out and younger players in midfield.
No. We would do that imo. Like Real would do it.
The PL is really bad this season. And Dortmunds problems come also from the fact that the BL is strong from top to bottom.
Not that easy here too.
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City and Chelsea would easily challenge Bayern. Also, its not about "who will challenge us", but more so about having significantly better competition to face than in the Bundesliga where this year, there doesn't seem to be any, whereas in the Prem, it would be City, Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal etc, which would increase the chances of dropping points and having a competitive league race. That's why England is so much better than Germany in terms of club football.
 
gofelx said:
Bürki (Freiburg Gk) with a crucial mistake. He played the ball straight out to Joselu who scored.
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Watching the replay now. What a stupid goal to conceed.
 
Raoul said:
City and Chelsea would easily challenge Bayern. Also, its not about "who will challenge us", but more so about having significantly better competition to face than in the Bundesliga where this year, there doesn't seem to be any, whereas in the Prem, it would be City, Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal etc, which would increase the chances of dropping points and having a competitive league race. That's why England is so much better than Germany in terms of club football.
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I agree that there is certainly more competition, but it's funny that you mention Arsenal who will be nowhere close to the title race this year. In that case you could easily name Wolfsburg, Schalke, Leverkusen or Gladbach as challengers in the Bundesliga. Dortmund finished 1st in the CL group stages, ahead of Arsenal, and are currently 17th in the League. That is an indication that there's not only cannon fodder in the bottom half of the table.

I also don't think City would be able to challenge Bayern to a League title, Bayern is a far better team in my opinion.
 
Raoul said:
City and Chelsea would easily challenge Bayern. Also, its not about "who will challenge us", but more so about having significantly better competition to face than in the Bundesliga where this year, there doesn't seem to be any, whereas in the Prem, it would be City, Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal etc, which would increase the chances of dropping points and having a competitive league race. That's why England is so much better than Germany in terms of club football.
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In single matches - yes. But not for the league titles. The league is very tricky. And the special with Bayern is that they have an absolutely great mentality. They do not get slobby in any match that counts. Apart from that Real matches (and they were tactical desasters) they have not lost any match in the last 2 years where it counted - not in the cups, not in the league, not in the CL. And drew less than 6 to 10.
 
gofelx said:
I agree that there is certainly more competition, but it's funny that you mention Arsenal who will be nowhere close to the title race this year. In that case you could easily name Wolfsburg, Schalke, Leverkusen or Gladbach as challengers in the Bundesliga. Dortmund finished 1st in the CL group stages, ahead of Arsenal, and are currently 17th in the League. That is an indication that there's not only cannon fodder in the bottom half of the table.

I also don't think City would be able to challenge Bayern to a League title, Bayern is a far better team in my opinion.
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No doubt Bayern would be the leading contenders if they were in the Prem, but it would not be a runaway as the other poster suggested. Any of United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal etc could easily take points off them. City just beat them recently, Arsenal slapped them around last year and Chelsea won the CL against them on their home ground (and without Mourinho at that). So there would be no runaway as our Bayern loving friend suggested.
 
i've now entered a stage of grief in which i would have wanted dortmund to actually be at the very bottom of the table. because of the sheer hilarity. must be some form of freudian death drive, or todestrieb.
 
Blackwidow said:
In single matches - yes. But not for the league titles. The league is very tricky. And the special with Bayern is that they have an absolutely great mentality. They do not get slobby in any match that counts. Apart from that Real matches (and they were tactical desasters) they have not lost any match in the last 2 years where it counted - not in the cups, not in the league, not in the CL. And drew less than 6 to 10.
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That's true in Germany, where they manage to win leagues by singing the best players of their nearest rival, but it wouldn't work in the Prem, where there is actually a lot of competition.
 
Raoul said:
No doubt Bayern would be the leading contenders if they were in the Prem, but it would not be a runaway as the other poster suggested. Any of United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal etc could easily take points off them. City just beat them recently, Arsenal slapped them around last year and Chelsea won the CL against them on their home ground (and without Mourinho at that). So there would be no runaway as our Bayern loving friend suggested.
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What matches were that? Did Bayern really loose anything?

The 2012 loss against Chelsea (and the losses in Cup final and the Bundesliga Championship) was the turning point for Bayern.

That's true in Germany, where they manage to win leagues by singing the best players of their nearest rival, but it wouldn't work in the Prem, where there is actually a lot of competition.
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Dortmund wasn't that rival anymore since 2012 - Götze and Lewandowski came last and this season. The Dortmund of 2010-2012 would not be a real rival to that Bayern of today either.
 
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Blackwidow said:
What matches were that? Did Bayern really loose anything?

The 2012 loss (and the Cup final and the Championship) was the turning point for Bayern.



Dortmund wasn't that rival anymore since 2012 - Götze and Lewandowski came last and this season. The Dortmund of 2010-2012 would not be a real rival to that Bayern of today either.
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Dortmund have finished 2nd over the past two years so that would qualify them as being the nearest rival. Now that Bayern have signed their best players, they are strangely no longer in 2nd.
 
Raoul said:
No doubt Bayern would be the leading contenders if they were in the Prem, but it would not be a runaway as the other poster suggested. Any of United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal etc could easily take points off them. City just beat them recently, Arsenal slapped them around last year and Chelsea won the CL against them on their home ground (and without Mourinho at that). So there would be no runaway as our Bayern loving friend suggested.
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I think Bayern would be favorites in any of these games for sure. And they are brutally consistent as opposed to the likes of Chelsea and City who like to drop points against minnows like Sunderland for example. That is why nobody in Germany is able to run close to them at the moment, they have so much squad depth and experience in the team that they keep on winning games.

CL and League is an entirely different thing, I mean Schalke beat Arsenal in 12/13 so does that mean they would compete for top 4 in the PL?
Dortmund top the group again ahead of Arsenal despite struggling badly in the League, what conclusion can we draw from that?
 
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The injury tables (days of injuries) of the Bundesliga for this season...

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Raoul said:
Dortmund have finished 2nd over the past two years so that would qualify them as being the nearest rival. Now that Bayern have signed their best players, they are strangely no longer in 2nd.
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Dortmund was 25 points behind Bayern in the season 2012/13... Leverkusen was a point or two behind them. Dortmund just lead the pack behind Bayern but Schalke or Leverkusen were very close to them.
 
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