Bundesliga, DFB Cup, and other Bundesliga business 2014/2015

anchan1989 said:
Is this a joke or are you serious? Götze was in great shape when they won the title in 2011 and he was 18. He is not the tallest but can hold his own against anyone 1 on 1.
Dont really get where these "Götze is fat" stories come from in Germany. He is anything but.
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I was joking.
I don't really think he's fat. Even though this beard -which is horrible, shave ffs- of his makes it often look like he's got a little double chin.
I think the stories arise because he never looked like your typical football player.
Most teenage players are lean. Later they start to fill out their body and look muscular and defined.
He was never as thin as most players his age are and while he definitely put on some muscles since he came into the league he isn't as defined as other players.
Similary people often say Müller doesn't look like a "real" footballer because he's lanky.
They are simply not what people expect to see.
 
@Kallech33
Which half season do you even mean regarding Sam? The first of 12/13 or 13/14? Because imo both time he looked pretty good until injuries fecked him.

You're comparing Draxler to Götze and Müller who both play for Bayern, but were talking about Schalke/Leverkusen/Wolfsburg/Gladbach here and I believe in last season's form he'd still easily be a starter for all of them.
Regarding Wolfsburg:
Solid alone doesn't get you to the top (at least not permanently). And while I also rate de Bruyne he's just one player, who they don't have any backup for.
 
Kallech33 said:
I was joking.
I don't really think he's fat. Even though this beard -which is horrible, shave ffs- of his makes it often look like he's got a little double chin.
I think the stories arise because he never looked like your typical football player.
Most teenage players are lean. Later they start to fill out their body and look muscular and defined.
He was never as thin as most players his age are and while he definitely put on some muscles since he came into the league he isn't as defined as other players.
Similary people often say Müller doesn't look like a "real" footballer because he's lanky.
They are simply not what people expect to see.
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Great points. He was already pro ready with 18. I agree.
And sorry if I bothered you. The "Götze is fat" thing is just annoying.

To Wolfsburg; Is there any new striker info?
Would love to see a good one with them. Really like their chances in the europa league then.
 
Rumours are Wolfsburg have bid £25m for Roma's Destro. A bit steep if you ask me, just shows how desperate they are to bring a striker.
 
Didn't they categorically rule out bids for Mandzukic, Morata and Lukaku because of their price tag?!
 
do.ob said:
@Kallech33
Which half season do you even mean regarding Sam? The first of 12/13 or 13/14? Because imo both time he looked pretty good until injuries fecked him.

You're comparing Draxler to Götze and Müller who both play for Bayern, but were talking about Schalke/Leverkusen/Wolfsburg/Gladbach here and I believe in last season's form he'd still easily be a starter for all of them.
Regarding Wolfsburg:
Solid alone doesn't get you to the top (at least not permanently). And while I also rate de Bruyne he's just one player, who they don't have any backup for.
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Sam: Last season oviously. In 12/13 he was injured the first half of the season and didn't impress me in the second half. I'm not even sure if he played a whole game in the league from start to finish in 12/13. At least I can't remember if he did.


Of course Draxler would be a starter at Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Gladbach.
My point is that he is seen as a world class talent and that he has all the tools to be a great player but he's not making enough out of it.
That is why I compared him to Müller (09/10) and Götze at age 20 (when Götze was still at Dortmund and Müller had his debut season).
Or look at Özil at age 20 (08/09). He almost got 20 scorer points in a Bremen team which finished midtable.
Schürrle scored 15 goals and 5 assists when he was 20 (10/11) for "measly" Mainz. After that he never reached such heights again for Leverkusen.

Yes, Draxler is often a joy to watch but he'll have to improve on his last season if he wants to be a Özil/Götze/Müller (= a guy who's good enough to be a starter for league/CL contender and the German NT in his early 20's) and not a Schürrle who is a great impact sub but not quite good enough to be a strater for the biggest clubs.
Draxler for me was a show pony (ok that's kind of harsh) last season. He shows some tricks, some nice passes and a few great shots but his end product was lacking.
I think he has to work on that.
 
So, I have finally time to write a little bit about our game vs. Liverpool today.

The best word to describe this whole experience is probably underwhelming. I liked the stadium itself and every Liverpool fan I met was really nice, but the atmosphere as a whole kinda reminded me of a tennis match. Every good action was cheered on for a couple of seconds and then the stadium fell silent again. This came also down to the lackluster support of our away fans, though, and my expectations were also probably too high in the first place.

In the game itself it was basically clear from the start that there were two teams with different state of minds on the field. Rodgers viewed the game as the final test before the start of the PL and fielded his best team with the exception of Lucas, who came in at HT. On the other hand the only sure starter for the beginning of league on our side were Mkhitaryan and Sokratis.

The game can´t be explained by just looking at the personell, though. The Liverpool player were in general simply in better shape, both physically and mentally. You could really see that they were further in their preparation for the season and were together for a longer period of time. They were vastly superior in terms of coordination and urgency. They took the whole game way more serious than us, which also could be seen in the duels where we were way too passive. As logical consequense we could not even start our usual pressing game and were instead pressed themselves, which led to the individual errors before the goals.

It is probably unfair to single out players in this game, but even in the overall poor team performance these players stood out negatively.

The first one would be the former captain Sebastian Kehl. Now, I immensively respect this guy and he is an undisputed club legend, but he has clearly shown a lack of form in the Pre season. As it stands now he will be at the bottom of the picking order in the CM/DM, which makes him giving up the badge logical but albeit still a class act on his part.

The other two were our two FBs Piszczek and Schmelzer. The former is still on his hard way back to normal form, where he is one of our genuine world class players and a set starter, who just simply had a really bad day. He still needs to step up his game, though or he will find himself on the bench sooner rather than later. The latter is a more worrying case. Schmelzer´s confidence really took a hit by the (understandably) decision of Löw to leave him out of the WC and despite having the whole Pre season he did not really recover from it. He was never a world beater, but an important worker for the team and I´m afraid that his days as starter are numbered. Youngster Erik Durm simply offers too much already and even way more potential to keep him out of the starting formation at Schmelzer´s expense.

With all that said, I still would not read too much into the game today. I had a very good view at Klopp during the game and he was completely calm and relaxed the whole time. He clearly expected something like that and maybe was even glad to get shown the things he needs to work on in the next two weeks. The guy who planned the whole thing does need to answer some hard questions, though. Flying in a team in the morning and expecting them to play well vs. a team of the calibre of Liverpool a 1pm is a recipe for a disaster.
 
Kallech33 said:
Sam: Last season oviously. In 12/13 he was injured the first half of the season and didn't impress me in the second half. I'm not even sure if he played a whole game in the league from start to finish in 12/13. At least I can't remember if he did.
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Well that season earned him a couple of invitations from Löw, so he must have had some good games in it.


Of course Draxler would be a starter at Leverkusen, Wolfsburg and Gladbach.
My point is that he is seen as a world class talent and that he has all the tools to be a great player but he's not making enough out of it.
That is why I compared him to Müller (09/10) and Götze at age 20 (when Götze was still at Dortmund and Müller had his debut season).
Or look at Özil at age 20 (08/09). He almost got 20 scorer points in a Bremen team which finished midtable.
Schürrle scored 15 goals and 5 assists when he was 20 (10/11) for "measly" Mainz. After that he never reached such heights again for Leverkusen.

Yes, Draxler is often a joy to watch but he'll have to improve on his last season if he wants to be a Özil/Götze/Müller (= a guy who's good enough to be a starter for league/CL contender and the German NT in his early 20's) and not a Schürrle who is a great impact sub but not quite good enough to be a strater for the biggest clubs.
Draxler for me was a show pony (ok that's kind of harsh) last season. He shows some tricks, some nice passes and a few great shots but his end product was lacking.
I think he has to work on that.
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I completely agree with you, but you're comparing him to world class players, that the clubs we were talking about don't have either. So while in the context of his own potential he's sort of a disappointment, he's still a positive aspect in Schalke's fight for a CL spot.
 
Just one week before the serious business starts with the DFB cup first round games, several teams are struggling to get in shape.

VfB Stuttgart lost at home to Hull City 1:2, VfL Wolfsburg fell apart with 1:5 against Atletico at their own "stadium party" and, as Sphaero wrote, Dortmund gifted 4 to 'Pool.

On the brighter side, Frankfurt beat Inter 3-1 and Hannover did likewise against Lazio. World Cup legend Miro Klose didn't play but announced a public statement for this week - it is expected that he will announce his retirement from the German squad.
In the same game another club legend got his farewell, Bundesliga veteran Steven Cherundolo from Rockford,IL played his last 3 minutes in a Hannover jersey after 15 years of service with 370 apperances. Cherundolo, who also has 87 caps, will stay with the Niedersachsen club as youth coach.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
So Thiago is out till at least October

Well done Mr Guardiola
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Where did you get that new info of? He has not started running by now but I expected him back somewhen soon.

Edit: I found it. I guess we do not let the Spainards go to Spain for treatments anymore.
 
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Blackwidow said:
Where did you get that new info of? He did not start running by now but I expected him back somewhen soon.

Edit: I found it. I guess we do not let the Spainards be treated in Spain anymore.
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But it's only Guardiola's fault

First injury: He has allowed Thiago to go to Spain for recovery and treatment....Müller-Wohlfahrt was against it
Second injury: Thiago wasn't ready for the Hoffenheim match according Müller-Wohlfahrt......Guardiola thought that Thiago is ready
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
But it's only Guardiola's fault

First injury: He has allowed Thiago to go to Spain for recovery and treatment....Müller-Wohlfahrt was against it
Second injury: Thiago wasn't ready for the Hoffenheim match according Müller-Wohlfahrt......Guardiola thought that Thiago is ready
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Guardiola's or maybe Thiago as he was very keen on playing the World... He was rushed in too early.

Some things need time. It is maybe the idea from Guardiola to play like Barcelona - even if it would be better with the players to play more for their strengths, especially if you have players like Ribery, Robben and Müller.
 
3rd or 4th minute - Ribery gets fouled, freekick - goal. 1:0... That is how we like it. 1860 - Bayern - the Munich derby of the U23 gets shown in German TV tonight. With Ribery and Schweinsteiger... - if we do not see the real ones in the Super Cup match together we watch the brothers tonight... :D:cool:
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Scholl's son, Gaudino's son, the brothers of Götze, Schweinsteiger and Ribery

The next one is Guardiola's son
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Heated atmosphere - there probably will be a red somewhen... Full stadium apart from a corner which I guess is not opened right now. And that in the Regionalliga for "reserve teams"...
The real derby is not happening as 1860 does not get out of the 2nd league...
 
Just realised that the game today starts at 6pm (5:00 pm BST). Why is that fecking supercup played so early? That's a horrible time to start a game during the week, ffs.
 
Balu said:
Just realised that the game today starts at 6pm (5:00 pm BST). Why is that fecking supercup played so early? That's a horrible time to start a game during the week, ffs.
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Agreed, it's an odd kick-off time, but it means I can catch the game! :nervous:
 
I expect the game to be quite boring anyway. With Dortmund's injuries I don't see themable to challenge Bayern.
 
do.ob said:
I expect the game to be quite boring anyway. With Dortmund's injuries I don't see themable to challenge Bayern.
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Our team is hardly unbeatable.

Line up: Neuer - Martínez, Lewandowski, Shaqiri, Gaudino, Boateng, Bernat, Rode, Müller, Alaba, Hojbjerg

Probably:

Shaqiri Lewandowski Müller
Bernat Gaudino Rode Hojbjerg
Alaba Martinez Boateng
Neuer
​
BVB: Langerak - Piszczek, Sokratis, Ginter, Schmelzer - Kehl, Kirch - Hofmann, Mkhitaryan, Aubameyang - Immobile
 
Balu said:
Our team is hardly unbeatable.

Line up: Neuer - Martínez, Lewandowski, Shaqiri, Gaudino, Boateng, Bernat, Rode, Müller, Alaba, Hojbjerg

Probably:

Shaqiri Lewandowski Müller
Bernat Gaudino Rode Hojbjerg
Alaba Martinez Boateng
Neuer
​
BVB: Langerak - Piszczek, Sokratis, Ginter, Schmelzer - Kehl, Kirch - Hofmann, Mkhitaryan, Aubameyang - Immobile
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To be honest, Dortmund isn't in a great shape and Gaudino, Rode and Hojbjerg looked quite good in pre-season.
Gaudino might even get permanently promoted to the first team.
 
Oh, is Ribery not fit yet? Well then it might be an even matchup, though I think Dortmund will have a lot of problems with the ball given that with Hummels, Gündogan and Sahin 3 of their playmakers are missing and that Immobile and Ramos didn't look that well integrated into their attacks thus far.
I think a 4141(ish) formation or a 442(ish) seems likely for Dortmund (did they even play 4231 at all in their pre season?). It'll be interesting to see how Klopp lets them play.
 
Klopp just said they might be playing like this at some point:

-------------Kehl
---Kirch-----------Mkhitaryan
-----------Hofmann
-Aubameyang---Immobile

I don't recall them playing in a diamond since his early days at Dortmund.
 
Gaudino is the shock for me. Heard his name but he really came out of nowhere. Peps praise for him is HUGE. Really excited now. Lets hope that he doesnt have big mistakes today.
Would be great IF a 17year old could become a first team guy.
Its my 25th birthday today so I hope for a Bayern present for me. :D
Its a fine trophy and first of all a trophy. You can win only so many each season.

Lets go meine Roten!
 
do.ob said:
Oh, is Ribery not fit yet? Well then it might be an even matchup, though I think Dortmund will have a lot of problems with the ball given that with Hummels, Gündogan and Sahin 3 of their playmakers are missing and that Immobile and Ramos didn't look that well integrated into their attacks thus far.
I think a 4141(ish) formation or a 442(ish) seems likely for Dortmund (did they even play 4231 at all in their pre season?). It'll be interesting to see how Klopp lets them play.
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An even match up - Bayern is playing with a 17- and an 18-year-old...

3 players that are in training since 4 days...

Oh, and Ribery resigns from the french national team.
 
Very Pep-like decision to throw in an untested youngster on the big stage.
 
P-EH is not your typical 19 year old, he played a good cup final. And despite their names Dortmund's team didn't seem that funtional thus far. Sure they looked good against opponents that gave them loads space, but I don't think they have what it takes to outplay a well organized defence in their current state.
 
Nearly an own goal from Javi Martinez, seemingly harmless back pass to Neuer going goalward, cleared off the line
 
The system still isn't working at all, back three completely overrun again.
 
Feck knows how he managed to pretty much run straight through there, did well though.
 
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