That's only a sign of which amazing lows they have reached. Is their training ground already bordering the Hades, only divided by the Styx?
Bundesliga, DFB Cup, and other Bundesliga business 2014/2015
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That's only a sign of which amazing lows they have reached. Is their training ground already bordering the Hades, only divided by the Styx?
Can't really blame Hamburg for anything here. They played a pretty much perfect anti-bayern match and threatened on the counter several times. One slip by Dante or Boateng would have been enough. A draw is exactly what this game deserved.
Yes Klopp is still wearing the Hoodie.
I disagree. Seeing how the goalkeeper wasn't inside the goal at the moment, that handball by Neuer prevented a decent goalscoring chance, at least in my oppinion. It's not that hard to score on an open goal, even from midfield and with other players around, in fact pretty much every Bundesliga player should be able to do that if they keep their composure. So I think that a red card would have been absolutely justified, although it's really not that outraging compared to some of the decisions in the Bremen or Schalke game. Could have given a red, but oh well, not like it would have mattered to the result of the Hamburg match anyway.
He wasn't even clearly in control of the ball for feck sake. He tried to get it past Neuer and Boateng had a very good chance to get to it first, if Neuer stayed away from it. That's never a red card. Of course there could have been a great chance for Hamburg in theory, but it wasn't certain at all, it wasn't even certain that a Hamburg player gets the chance to shoot, let alone from a position where it's likely that he hits the open goal and without a Bayern player challenging him.
Jeez Dortmund. So bad.
Dortmund with a clownish performance. Can't even score from a penalty.
Own goal. Unfeckingbelivable.
they can score.....
Dortmund seemed to have embraced the mentality of a cup team
Well, at least the Bundesliga isn't boring at the moment.
They've still yet to score in the Bundesliga as well.
feck yes! Great performance and a deserved win, balance of play maybe a bit Dortmund's favour, but they didn't take their chances whereas we did. Karma that they didn't score from that ridiculous peno, what the feck was the ref thinking. Anyway, we fought hard, Baumgartlinger was brilliant cleaning up in midfield, Zaki showed who's the best Shinji in the house, and the second half was played in a massive thunderstorm. Brilliant game. Hope we can repeat that kind of performance in the derby on Tuesday.
We beat them 3:0, 9:2, 3:1, 5:0 and 4:1 in the last 2 seasons (4 league games, 1 cup game). How the hell is a deserved point because of a disciplined hard worked performance not an improvement? Of course they were incredibly shit the past years and still aren't great, but it's ridiculous to take a shot at them for how they played, when our own performance was that toothless.
the only problem with pens like this one is, that there is no strict rule, that is applied everytime. He has his arm of the body, the ball hits him and he gets a clear advantage with it. Tough luck, buts thats a legit pen.
The rule says that a handball needs to be intentional to be called a foul How the feck do you intend to handle the ball while diving into a shot like that? It's fecking stupid to give a pen when someone shoots the ball at you from a short distance and I don't say that just because it's happened to us for the second time in two games. The Schalke one earlier was even worse. It should never be a pen.
The rule also says that the position of the hand matters. These kind of decisions are made all the time. Some player already start to make sliding tackles with their hands on their back/chest. Its always the same discussion, if the hand is in a natural position or not. I dont mind not giving pens for this, but following the current interpretation of rules its a maybe-pen and all players know that. It might be frustrating, but the ref didnt make any clear cut mistake. They only thing people should be upset about is, that the hand rule is only vaguely formulated and there is no official statement how to interpreted it consistently.
Paderborn leading the table with Mainz second and Hoffenheim third... 
And - like usually - even on matchdays on which Bayern does not get full points Dortmund and Schalke are just too stupid to take advantage. I never thought that they would loose points in Mainz - that was their secure haven all the years when Tuchel was coach there... And Schalke draws but looses two of their most important players with reds...
Draxler got his birthday goal and a birthday red...
Leverkusen plays in Wolfsburg tomorrow...
And - like usually - even on matchdays on which Bayern does not get full points Dortmund and Schalke are just too stupid to take advantage. I never thought that they would loose points in Mainz - that was their secure haven all the years when Tuchel was coach there...
And Schalke draws but looses two of their most important players with reds...Draxler got his birthday goal and a birthday red...
Leverkusen plays in Wolfsburg tomorrow...
When the HSV-Bayern match ended with the HSV players celebrating it reminded me of the epic "We won a throw in, get in there!" thread
I agree that the Schalke one was ridiculous and shouldn't have been given. The one Dortmund got against you though was a pretty clear pen for me.
He jumps in, the ball is going at goal, he knew the ball would go in that direction, and he carelessly has his arm flying above his body in an area where the ball is likely to go. Yes the shot was from close range but it's not like it was a surprise shot and he couldn't see the situation coming. Also it's definitely possible to block a shot without having your arm swinging around like that.
By the way, yes the rules do use the word "intentional", but they also state that blocking shots/passes/etc with unnatural arm positions where the arms are extended from the body is considered "intentional". The ref did everything right and had a pretty good position to see the incident as well.
Btw I'm not a Dortmund fan.
So how is the 3-4-3 experiment going for Bayern performance wise? Are the wing-backs doing enough and would you guys prefer a change to a more conventional formation or stick with 3-4-3?
I think their reaction wasn't as ridiculous when you consider that they earned a point against the best team in the league and basically got slaughtered in 6 out of their last 7 games against Bayern before that draw.When the HSV-Bayern match ended with the HSV players celebrating it reminded me of the epic "We won a throw in, get in there!" thread
Pep changes it all the time anyway and still very often uses a back four. I still like it, but with all our injuries and so many missing key players, especially Robben and Ribery are really important to make the 3-4-3 work in my opinion, it's difficult to judge.
Bayern does not have a system - they change it 5 times in each match. Sometimes you think that this adaptibility could be as great as it could be in getting a cohesive unit right now especially when you have the individuals missing.
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About the Bundesliga (I watch the United match with half eye and see twitter with the other...) - Leverkusen is 0:1 down and with 10 man after 10 minutes. Funny - yesterday you thought Bayern had lost 2 points - today it could be that they gained one...
So, Mkhitaryan is out for four weeks after suffering an injury in the 90th minute vs. Mainz.
The weird thing is, that I´m not even mad. Not because Mkhi is not an important player, he is even more important than many realize. Nope, losing at least one player after every freaking game has just become a sad normality. The Armenian marks the fourth injured offensive midfielder on top of missing every of our central ones. Happy times. Is the Winter break there, yet?
On a brighter note, Mats Hummels is suppossed to return for the Wednesday match vs. Stuttgart and we desperately need the captain to bring some leadership and structure back in the defense line. Ginter needs time to fully bring his talent on the pitch and has impressed more as DM so far, Sokratis is in one of his rare slumps and Subotic is still not at 100%. Even after bolstering the defense with good transfers Mats Hummels still remains the player, who is the hardest to replace. Bad news for interested clubs, though. If things stay this way, Hummels is going nowhere next summer.
The weird thing is, that I´m not even mad. Not because Mkhi is not an important player, he is even more important than many realize. Nope, losing at least one player after every freaking game has just become a sad normality. The Armenian marks the fourth injured offensive midfielder on top of missing every of our central ones. Happy times. Is the Winter break there, yet?
On a brighter note, Mats Hummels is suppossed to return for the Wednesday match vs. Stuttgart and we desperately need the captain to bring some leadership and structure back in the defense line. Ginter needs time to fully bring his talent on the pitch and has impressed more as DM so far, Sokratis is in one of his rare slumps and Subotic is still not at 100%. Even after bolstering the defense with good transfers Mats Hummels still remains the player, who is the hardest to replace. Bad news for interested clubs, though. If things stay this way, Hummels is going nowhere next summer.
Am I correct in saying Leverkusen is basically German version of Tottenham Hotspur? Just lost 1-4 to Wolfsburg.
Nothing to see here, just Leverkusen being Leverkusen. What a waste of a club.
Based on what?
How was mentality a problem in that game? There were games around CL fixtures where this could have been brought up, especially the horrible Hamburg game last season, but this was not one of them. The team clearly wanted and did not even play that poorly most of the game. They covered 119 km, which is a stat most PL sides could only dream of. Mainz matched us in that regard, pressed us very well and converted the few chances they had, which was the main difference to Hamburg for example.
This was always going to be a hard game given that we went into it without seven midfielder and had to reshuffle the defense once more. All in all Mainz deserved that victory because they were cleverer in front on the goal, while we had some bad luck with the wood work or were stopped by the strong Karius.
Games like this happen and in the end the competition thankfully struggled as well.
this, goddamit. it's freakin' unbelievable.
You mean that Wolfsburg that midweek had 28 chances against Everton and only scored with the last of it...
Everybody of us who watches Leverkusen for years knows that they have heights - and lows. They always had... I guess the mentality runs through the club. Everytime when somebody again tells that Kießling should play for the national team I tell them to please look into his results in the Champions League... 16 CL matches, 3 goals (1 against Valencia, 2 in one match against Shaktar - that means 14 of 16 CL matches without goal - you want to make a guy to the primary offensive outlet for your national team who internationally based on club performance is a failure?)
It is not only Dortmund that has injury problems - it is something all of the top clubs have - atleast the German clubs do. Might have to do with the playing style and the strain? Maybe we should just name the players that are seldom or never injured and call them the Unbreakables?
By the way, I recall a Klopp press conference from last season, where he called theories, which linked BVB's physically demanding stile of play to the club's ongoing injury crisis, 'repulsive and despicable' (or something along the lines of it). Is there any kind of inner discourse about the injury situation? It doesn't solely have to be about the playing stile, but maybe training camp and individual supervision of player fitness. I personally believe that you cannot completely dispute the fact, that intensive high-pressing over an extended period of time is causing wear and tear.
What's your take on the situation?
It´s extremely difficult to rate the situation from the outside without any inside knowledge. There are some supporters, who see the supervision of the regeneration of the player´s fitness as the main problem for the ongoing injury crisis, some view our play style as the source.
For me the peoples simply want to find a simple explanation for injuries other than rotten luck.
If it would have been a problem with the personell I think the officials would have already reacted. Our head doc Dr. Braun is with the club since 2003 and immensively experienced. Klopp´s Co coach Buvac is also known for closely overseeing the healing processes of the players. If these two would have spotted something there would have been changes.
The explanation with the playing style has the problem, that the injuries spread amongst the core players and the newer ones. Furthermore the intensity has overall lessened compared to two years ago. We don´t play this high intense pressing style as often anymore, because we are not allowed to do so by the opponent. At least half the games we are supposed to make the game and run at deep lying defenses.
The biggest indicator for me, that there is no easy explanation for these injuries is the respective natures of them. Let´s take a look at the currently unavailable players:
Hummels - Had at first problems because of the overextension at the WC. From a purely medical standpoint it would have been wiser for him to not play the final, but I can´t neither fault him or Löw for the decision. Similar to Schweinsteiger he payed the price for it, though. What this overextension did, though, was causing problems with his pelvis, which was always slightly crooked but never hindered him before. They had it permanently fixed, which in turn slowed down his recovery a bit. His last big injury before that was simply landing in an unlucky manner after an aerial duel at a game with the national team in November. A false fall from a man as heavy as him will always tear something.
Subotic - Has currently slight muscular problems, which are common when being used to the extension in professional football after coming back from a heavy injury. His ACL rupture was an impact injury, which is horrible but sadly a way too common injury in football.
Gündogan - Back problems for basically a year now. They broke out at a game with the German national team and tie back to something he had since birth which was ultimatively fixed with an operation. Will probably come back in the coming weeks.
Kirch - Tore his muscle pretty badly in pre season training. According to Klopp without impact or in an intensity movement. Hard to say what caused this.
Sahin - Operation on his knee after suffering an inflammation in it. Had problems before Pre season with it and sat out the majority of the training.
Ji - Same as Kirch but not as harsh. Never played a single competive game with us until now. About to come back now.
Reus - Two ankle injuries. Both via impact, both suffered in International games.
Mkhitaryan - Foot injury after a block tackle in the last game. Would be new to me that block tackles only happen when Dortmund plays.
Kuba - Tore a muscle in his rehabilitation after the torn ACL (impact injury). Unlucky, but happens regulary, see Badstuber (poor guy).
As you can see most of the injuries resulted from impacts in the game or followed these injuries. Several of them did not even happen in Dortmund games. The only two cases where overextension could be a cause would be Kirch and Ji, both players who are not regulars for us. The one player, who is fit right now, but might be a victim of our play style is Schmelzer. He had an alarming rate of muscle injuries over the last two years now.
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The bad luck is truly unbelievable. Not just for Dortmund, for Bayern also.. if not as badly. it's not a good state of the sport if you can say that the top clubs only get one proper preseason phase every two years.
@Bazi
I remember an interview with Müller-Wohlfahrt who pins the rise of knee injuries to more pressing as you have additional direction changes and "shorter" movements.
I can imagine that players that do more short movements and direction changes have a different use of their muscles, too.
I remember an interview with Müller-Wohlfahrt who pins the rise of knee injuries to more pressing as you have additional direction changes and "shorter" movements.
I can imagine that players that do more short movements and direction changes have a different use of their muscles, too.
roger schmidt used to coach themPaderborn is top of the table right now
What did you think was the main issues with your play? (if there was any). You know about the Mainz coach? seemed to have mainz setup pretty well in shutting your play between their defenders into the halbraums or wings
i find it pretty odd to argue with "rotten luck", regarding the injury crisis at dortmund, bayern AND schalke. those are the league's leading clubs with the most internationals, the most games etc - not that i'm a doctor or something, i just find it odd.
I will only speak for bayern: We accumulated many player, that are injury pron. Its not bad luck when Ribery, Robben or Schweinsteiger are injured. They are injured every single season. Götze and Thiago seem to have similar problems besides being fairly young. Badstuber was injured for for almost two years, comes back and has to play almost every match for 90 minutes. In hindsight it isnt necessarily a big surprise that this isnt ideal.
So talking about bad luck is nonsense. If you buy/keep these player you know that this is going to happen every now and than, so you have to deal with it. Schalke also has a couple of players who are incredibly injury prone.
Add the worldcup and nobody should be really surprised about that.
So talking about bad luck is nonsense. If you buy/keep these player you know that this is going to happen every now and than, so you have to deal with it. Schalke also has a couple of players who are incredibly injury prone.
Add the worldcup and nobody should be really surprised about that.
