I'm not saying that at all, maybe someone else was though.
My main point was that Bayern wouldn't have it so easy in the EPL and wouldn't dominate as much as they do in Germany.
Bundesliga, DFB Cup, and other Bundesliga business 2014/2015
- Thread starter ManniKaltz
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I'm not saying that at all, maybe someone else was though.
My main point was that Bayern wouldn't have it so easy in the EPL and wouldn't dominate as much as they do in Germany.
Canal + is the equivalent of Sky in the UK
just for the record, it's not Bayern who is being criticised here (at least I hope so). they are free to buy any player they want and they aren't the ones who should be thinking about rival clubs. it's the whole situation with their "rivals" that is being ridiculed on here and I'm not sure why some of the Bayern fans seem like they are offended by that. unfortunately, that's the way things go in Germany. you enjoy it because you are top of the food chain, but you have to accept that there are many neutrals who just find it hillarious.
My point isn't that Bayern aren't a great team, but the rest are not anywhere near that level and Bayern would not get 101 pts in the PL either
If you read this thread the PL is supposed to be substandard compared to the Bundesliga and when it suits certain posters the British teams finish below the counterparts in their groups
So Bayern getting thrashed at home by RM means what
Which BL players excelled at the WC excluding Bayern players
PL marketing machine? If the product is rubbish, people don't watch - same as a film at a cinema, crap film = flop at box office
Where exactly did anyone say that the Bundesliga is a stronger League than the BPL?
Two years in a row all 4 German clubs reach the last 16 in the CL, for me that is a sign of quality but many people call most of the teams other than Bayern nothing more than average.
Yeah and Dortmund trashed Real Madrid 4-1 at home, what does that tell us?
I just found your point with the WC very pointless as most Premier League players were a major disappointment in the tournament or would you disagree?
If the product is rubbish, people don't watch?
The music/film/gaming industry is the perfect example that you can earn a shit ton of money even though your product is absolutely awful. Not saying this applies to the PL at all but your point doesn't make sense.It wouldn't happen because City, Chelsea and probably even Arsenal can compete with our wages. In the Bundesliga there really is no team who can compete financially with Bayern not even Dortmund after their growth over the last couple of years.
Where exactly did anyone say that the Bundesliga is a stronger League than the BPL?
Two years in a row all 4 German clubs reach the last 16 in the CL, for me that is a sign of quality but many people call most of the teams other than Bayern nothing more than average.
Yeah and Dortmund trashed Real Madrid 4-1 at home, what does that tell us?
I just found your point with the WC very pointless as most Premier League players were a major disappointment in the tournament or would you disagree?
If the product is rubbish, people don't watch?
Read previous posts maybe?
All 119 of them?
So what are you trying to say?
You confused me so much i can't even tell what kind of fanboy you think i am. Just to get this straight, i'm a red. Munich branch. Season ticket since 1992.
Agree with that, but..
certainly not for that reason. United had the very lucky position of meeting Bayern at their weakest, after cruising to the title and deciding to take it easy for some unknown reason. In some kind of final, against Moyes' United, this 13/14 Bayern squad would win 8/10. and probably lose none.
I know Bayern has a track record of losing to EPL teams. All of those were games that didn't matter much for Bayern and in some cases after wiping the floor with them in the first leg.
Nobody is bashing the Premier League or suggesting that it's weaker than the Bundesliga.
People are coming in here saying the same old "ugh boring Bundesliga, all clubs bar Bayern are shit" phrases.
But anyone who knows the Bundesliga will know that the overall quality is a lot higher than ten years ago. The Bundesliga clubs' performances in Europe over the last couple of years were probably the best they've been in the modern era. Suggesting the league isn't good enough is ridiculous. It's rather a case of Bayern being too good recently. How are hard working clubs supposed to keep up with the current oil money inflated market? Since when are City's and Chelsea's money injections something to be proud of? But there's still very good football on show in the league and Gladbach/Leverkusen/Wolfsburg etc are all great to watch.
I don't think people are defending Bayern but rather defending the Bundesliga. It's simply one of the strongest Bayern sides ever.
People are coming in here saying the same old "ugh boring Bundesliga, all clubs bar Bayern are shit" phrases.
But anyone who knows the Bundesliga will know that the overall quality is a lot higher than ten years ago. The Bundesliga clubs' performances in Europe over the last couple of years were probably the best they've been in the modern era. Suggesting the league isn't good enough is ridiculous. It's rather a case of Bayern being too good recently. How are hard working clubs supposed to keep up with the current oil money inflated market? Since when are City's and Chelsea's money injections something to be proud of? But there's still very good football on show in the league and Gladbach/Leverkusen/Wolfsburg etc are all great to watch.
I don't think people are defending Bayern but rather defending the Bundesliga. It's simply one of the strongest Bayern sides ever.
Thanks for that, probably start another round of arguments
Eg Wolfsburg 2nd in BL rated 1805, City 2nd in PL rated 1965
To answer your question and reduce some of the apparent confusion around this topic: Dortmund won the league 2 times (with Götze) in 10/11 and 11/12, then Bayern completely wiped the floor with them (incl. Götze still) and the rest of europe in the 12/13 campaign, THEN Götze switched teams. Even without "dismantling" our rivals we broke the points total record by a huge margin.
Btw I'm not saying they're winning the league because they dismantled Dortmund, however it was Dortmund who they played in the UCL final that year and the cup final too?
The point is that the league is now easier after taking those players for 1 and 2 they wouldn't have been able to do that in the EPL. I think THAT particular Bayern team that won the league and UCL etc was the best team in the world at that moment in time, but you have to agree Dortmund were one of the top 4/5 teams in the world too.
Bayern played Dortmund in the CL final in 12/13 when they won the treble and, as I said, completely ran away with the Bundesliga BEFORE aquiring Götze. In the end, Bayern were 25 points ahead of the BVB. So the whole "it's easy to walk the league when you can just buy your rival's best players" is a moot point because Bayern walked the league before getting even one of them.
So we can safely conclude that Dortmund were far more competitive before Bayern started swiping their best players. Very good.
Not in terms of the Bundesliga. That's my point. The Götze at least transfer changed nothing. And both players would have left with or without Bayern. It's not Bayern swiping their talents that hurts them, it's that they can't hold on to their players.
Who else have they sold in the calibre of Goetze and Lew ?
Sahin was their absolute star player at the time. Madrid bought him.
Then Kagawa was their star player. United bought him.
Then Götze, Reus, Lewandowski, and Gündogan all were star players.
Bayern bought Götze.
Gündogan was out for about 15 months.
Meanwhile Bayern bought Lewandowski.
Then Reus went back to his old self, being injured more often than not.
Just because Götze and Lewandowski have the biggest names that doesn't mean that they were of a higher importance to Dortmund than the other 4 at the time.
Losing both of them to Bayern certainly didn't help Dortmund. They may have a problem of hanging onto their players, but its more relevant that their nearest rival has been buying their best players. No wonder there is no competition in Germany.
Losing both of them, Bayern or not, didn't help Dortmund. Had Bayern not triggered the release clause, somebody else would have. Had Lewandowski not signed for Bayern, he in all likelyhood still wouldn't have signed a new contract (Bayern didn't buy Lewandowski). As I said above (which you seemed to ignore): The gap between Bayern and Dortmund was already huge without Bayern getting Götze and Lewandowski.
How do you know the year between Dortmund's two titles and Gotze leaving wasn't in fact a one off ? Also, where's the rest of the competition in the Bundesliga ? Why does one club have a monopoly on the entire league ?
How do you know Dortmund's 2 championships weren't both one offs, coincidentally right after another? Pointless question. The way bayern played and reinforced themselves that year it was pretty clear that they had leapt ahead. With or without Götze.
As to your other questions: Because that club was managed expertly for more than 30+ years. Right now, Bayern are at their peak. How come United had the EPL pretty much monopolized for nearly over a decade? Because they did a better job than the others.
They obviously weren't one offs because they didn't happen once. That's what a one off is, an exception, not consecutive iterations.
As for being expertly managed, yes I do agree with that. But what does that say about the strength of the league they play in when one club has had a monopoly on success. To any objective observer, it would suggest the league does not provide sufficient competition to its dominant club. I know there are one off teams like Wolfsburg, Bremen etc who have nicked a league here and there, but none of them are able to retain their form for more than a couple of years.
Would there be competition for United if it wasn't for Abramovich and Mansour pumping money into their respective "projects"?
Exactly.
This discussion is doing nothing but clog the thread. It stopped going somewhere about 5 pages ago.
Probably a fair bit more than what Bayern has had. Arsenal managed 3 leagues without an Oligarch or Oil Sheikh funding their success. As odious as the sugar daddy money has been in terms of clubs buying their way to success, it has more or less increased the competition due to the arms race of money that has been infused into the Prem, including United's recent spending.
Arsenal won their last League title in 2004, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with that. Since 2004 Dortmund, Bremen, Stuttgart and Wolfsburg won League titles in the Bundesliga besides Bayern.
Fair enough, I can happily live without that in the Bundesliga as I absolutely despise clubs like PSG or Man City.
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or he is maybe a replacement for this idiot
http://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/k...eidigte-er-eine-stewardess-39082710.bild.html
That's just a BS article. No one really cares how a player behaves off the pitch as long as he performs and no one cares if players live in their club's city or nearby. Tbh Gelsenkirchen is one of the cities with the worst reputations in Germany (financially/culturally), so I don't think officials really blame players for living in Düsseldorf, which offers a lot more for rich people.
Stindl also isn't the calibre of player a club like Schalke would buy as a starter.
It's always happening in discussions that are completely driven by stupid cliches without using any logic at all. Chelsea has 42 points in the Premier League after 17 games, Bayern 45 in the Bundesliga after the same number of games, yet people claim Bayern are better than any English teams but would struggle more and therefore gain less points at the same time. It's mind-boggling really, how can anyone not see the contradiction in their own argument? Of course it leads to tedious arguments, if there's not the slightest bit of sense in it. Either Chelsea is stronger than Bayern or the Premier League teams overall aren't putting more of a fight up than the Bundesliga teams.
It's by the way the same the other way round. Obviously if someone claims Bayern would run away in the Premier League the same way they do in the Bundesliga, it's pure nonsense. It's simply not possible to open a similar gap in points if the best English team beats the small and midtable teams as often as Bayern does. After all you win a league through consistency and not through a few single results.
What's really annoying though is when people turn to the Bundesliga is shit argument as a reason for Bayern winning so many games, because it's so obviously not true and you really have to ignore all facts to come to that conclusion or use an incredibly selective and small number of games instead of the overall picture. That's when most of the German users on the Caf get defensive, and it's fairly understandable and that's exactly what happened in the last 5 pages again.
Arsenal can't compete. City signed Toure, Adebayor, Nasri, Clichy and Sagna from them just for fun. Or van Persie, Vieira, Cesc, Henry. Arsenal was never competetive enough to keep their best players. They only difference between PL and Bundesliga are the oil clubs. We can't sign players from Chelsea and City, because they swim in money and can offer outstanding wages. Add 2 oil clubs in the Bundesliga and It would be a similiar situation. Remove Chelsea and City from the PL and United would have won about 9 of the last 10 league titles and would have signed tons of players from the likes of Arsenal and the rest of the league. Nasri the obvious one, which we would have signed, if it wasn't for City.
And still it's not like the PL was so unpredictable and mindblowing, we were still the one team who won most titles, the other 2 teams who won it in the last few years were City and Chelsea. Maybe some here will be happy, when Leipzig arrives in the Bundesliga. But the unpredictable PL, where 7 teams can win the league, is a myth, nothing more.
You are right including Arsenal in there wasn't really appropriate considering that their revenue is pretty much on the same level as Dortmund's.
As it stands right now there are 4 super rich clubs which are Real, Barca, Bayern and us. Additionally, like you have mentioned, we have a bunch of clubs that can't compete in terms of revenue but have some other sources of money that kept them competitive Chelsea, City and PSG. So yeah without the oil money the PL would probably look much more like the Bundesliga or La Liga in terms of competitiveness when it comes to winning the league.
I also hate these discussions whose dad is stronger, but that's really unfair comparision when you should be the first one to know how injury affected Bayern team was throughout these 17 games in comparision with Chelsea who played their strongest team in pretty much every game and yet Bayern collected three more points in same number of games.
Someone like Bernat who is new to the team and probably wouldn't be starter if everyone is fit(correct me if I'm wrong), is your most featured outfield player in league this season, and there are players like Roede and Hojbjerg who played decent amount of football themselves in not so easy games. Not to mention that your most injured players were actually Bayern's key players like Schweinsteiger, Ribery, Lahm, and Rooben at times, and yet you are running away with 9 points ahead of Wolfsburg, and you conceeded just 4 goals in 17 games. Bayern has strong team that would dominate in England, but I highly doubt Chelsea would be anywhere near 42 points if they were missing Hazard, Costa, Ivanovic, etc. in more than half of their games, and not beceause they don't have good squad depth.
Chelsea's squad depth is nowhere near as good as ours. At least on that we should agree. For most of the season we replaced Thiago, Martinez and Schweinsteiger with Alonso, Lahm and Alaba in midfield. And midfield really is the part in the team that caused us problems. We never struggled to field a strong attack or defense so far this season.
I don't think we even once fielded a weak XI in any way. I'm not sure why you specifically mention Bernat. He has been absolutely fantastic and I doubt you find a single Bayern fan who would be worried the slightest bit if he started a CL semifinal or final for us. Hojbjerg played 90 minutes in the CL against City and CSKA and didn't look out of place at all. You make those players sound like weak links that would be exploited in the Premier League, but I don't think that is true at all. There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing a few young players in a well working team, especially if they're as talented as the ones mentioned here.
If you believe that this Bayern side with those injuries wouldn't be able to finish on more points in a league than Chelsea, fair enough, I strongly disagree. But that's just speculation. Even with all those injuries we opened a gap of 7 points to City in just 6 games in what was probably the strongest CL group this season. Surely that has to count for something?
They would walk PL though at the minute, maybe not 101 points but seeing as inferior Chelsea team is on course for around 90 I could see current Bayern getting around 97-98. There's significant gap between them and Chelsea/City.
This nonsense comes out everytime there is a great team outside England, 'could they do it in PL?', 'look how uncompetitive their league is' without realizing that the exact same team would be as dominant in England as they are elsewhere. People who think current Bayern or Real Madrid or Barcelona 09-11 would struggle to any degree in Premier League are nuts.
I think Bayern, even with their injury crisis at the minute, would at least be favorites at least to win the Premier League title if they were in it. Their squad depth at the moment is ridiculous, which can't be said for Chelsea and City.
As I said in previous posts I am not disputing the fact that Bayern are a great team and yes, they might well win the PL at the moment, but they are on course for 90 points this season and to concede only 8 goals . Wolfsburg are on course for 68points and Leverkusen 56pts. Thus a 22point gap between 1st and 2nd and a 34pt gap between 1st and 3rd in a 34 match season. Sorry but there's no way on earth that if they were in the PL they could possibly achieve these kind of figures, this is my point
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/382817.html
If Koeman can make him an half decent player then massive respect Mr Koeman
But right now i wouldn't surprise me if Elia will be another "Saphir Taider case" for Southampton
If Koeman can make him an half decent player then massive respect Mr Koeman
But right now i wouldn't surprise me if Elia will be another "Saphir Taider case" for Southampton