It was a terrible touch from him that lost possession. Really really poor. After that nothing he did influenced the outcome. And yes, a litany of errors involving multiple players.
10
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 24
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 3
It was a terrible touch from him that lost possession. Really really poor. After that nothing he did influenced the outcome. And yes, a litany of errors involving multiple players.
For what it's worth, in the 2nd half, he showed character we really got to witness. Hopefully what he did during the first goal woke him up.
It was exactly the touch he was intending though - knocking it away from the defender and out to Garnacho on the wing. The misunderstanding between them is then why VdV can nip in and take the ball away - Garnacho is of course closer to the ball than VdV when the pass is played and would have easily got there before VdV and Rashford had he not decided to leave it.
After that, I thought he got in some good positions in the first half and was the only attacker who looked like he might make something happen but frustratingly messed up 2-3 promising situations. Lovely left foot cross to Garnacho for his chance that hit the post though. Second half he did some decent tracking back but hard for any of our attackers to do much in the circumstances.
I am still unsure whether that knock was a pass to Garnacho or for him to take it into his stride however like you said, Vdn pounced on the confusion between the 2 attackers.
Your words, not mine. He apparently 'didn't seen him' despite looking at him and slowing down before VdV won the ball
He absolutely could have made a challenge had he not given up running - watch the video. You talk like these are facts and we're looking into the mind of Rashford himself. Bizarre.
Think it was a pass to Garnacho who went inside when Rashford thought he'd go outside.
I don't see what's that got to do with what we were arguing ? Rashford should have tracked back but I don't personally blame him for not doing so. Him tracking back is irrelevant when it comes to the goal conceded.Your words, not mine. He apparently 'didn't seen him' despite looking at him and slowing down before VdV won the ball
He absolutely could have made a challenge had he not given up - watch the video.
Whose closest to the ball after the poor first touch Rashford or vdv? ~ vdv doesnt get away because Rashford gives up, vdv makes a first touch interception away from Rashford which he already anticipates hence why he slows down after his own poor touch which drags the ball meters away. Only Roy Keane could have a bad first touch & then slide tackles with 2 studs up to make up for the distance of the poor first touch.
Garnacho is the closest to vdv in your photos where he should have tackled vdv to stop him storming through & taken one for the team?zzz getting boring now you win.. Isnt vdv the fastest cb in the league? Cruised past 6 players but your here complaining about 1 that should have taken 1 for the team when none of the team did either...
I’m not sure how to post screenshots but if you pause as Rashford is moving onto the ball, you can see Garnacho shows that he’s going to move out towards the wing - exactly where Rashford passes the ball. It’s definitely a pass out to him in my view.
Nacho then sees Rashford continue his run and thinks Rashford will get to the ball, not anticipating that VdV is behind him but moving towards the ball and closer than Rashford. Had he done so, he’d presumably have blocked VdV off a bit or gone to get the pass himself. Rashford then also appears confused by Garnacho moving away from the ball, slowing down his own movement as a result.
Frustrating confusion but not a big error by either player really. It’s a split second which just gives VdV enough time to get to the ball.
I can see what you described being exactly what happened tbh
So glad you’ve posted this. I couldn’t!!But that's not what happens, at all. Rashford never changes his pace or hesitates, he continues in the same direction and pace. Garnacho looks up, sees that Rashford is continuing for the ball, so he changes his position and goes for the run in behind instead.
This is literally the second when Rashford sees he's not getting to the ball first and where he stops running and starts jogging, i have honestly absolutely no understanding whatsoever how it's a case of not being able to understand football to think that Rashford can foul him.
But it’s clear as day that if he shows an ounce of desire and commitment in this moment, he could quite feasibly prevent VDV from advancing.
He just fecking gave up. Inexcusable for me
Not blaming him exclusively for the result of course. We were awful anll over the pitch.
I just don’t know how anyone can defend him in this specific moment. One poster yday was suggesting he couldn’t see VDV!! Madness
You said you didn't make excuses - i quoted the excuses YOU made for him. 'He didn't see him' is a blatant excuse.
We both agree he should have tracked back. We obviously disagree on why he should have done it regardless of what the outcome is - i can never agree that tracking back when you lost the ball is pointless in any situation other than having an injury.
You can see from the screenshots posted above and video , he gives up because he sees VdV and starts jogging. Unacceptable and he should be blamed.
I'm not sure if the highlight of his performance yesterday was when he miscontrolled a simple pass and allowed it to run away for a throw in, or when he decided to run...and run...and run...until he ran a bit too far and handed them a goal kick.
To be honest, I’ve wiped most of the second half from my memory!
Excuses for not tracking back.... When I said he didn't see VdV, it concerned losing the ball, what happened afterwards is inexcusable. Got it now ?
Didn't really see it, to be honest.
Either way, and this pretty much goes for every player, the perceptions change quickly. Not sure why fans jump on it. If you consistently perform badly you don’t have much leeway, and a few flicks against mediocre opposition is hardly a sign that someone has turned a corner. Likewise, if you consistently perform well you have leeway to get away with a few bad performances. I think it’s fair, and easy, to point out what category Rashford finds himself in, and there needs to be a long period of consistent performances before there should be any talk of turning a fecking corner.
It’s obvious that at his best he has abilities that we badly need, but i honestly think he reached a point where he got comfortable and he’s completely lost his edge. Maybe it’s just a result of the cringe fest between him and Lingard, the 0,012% stuff.
Oh come on, that’s nonsense. Trying to blame Garnacho for Rashford coughing up the ball so easily is absurd. Even in the insane world where we give Rashford as much benefit of the doubt as you’re intent on giving him and assume that was a pass then the way he continued to run past such an easily and obviously intercepted “pass” (without tracking back) reflects worse on him than if he thought he was going to take the ball in his stride.
Losing the ball in a 2v1 like that is criminal and honestly not something you'd see an EPL level player ever do. Especially one with his experience.
His body is done, he's got limited agility left and it shows that he can't make quick start stops. Playing him is playing 10v11. The only time he's looked alright is against Championship level teams. I'll say it again, our inability to recognize he's not an EPL level player and move on from him is the most atrocious of managerial issues I've seen. We should have retained Sancho, sacked ETH and Rashford.
His body is done, he's got limited agility left and it shows that he can't make quick start stops. Playing him is playing 10v11. The only time he's looked alright is against Championship level teams. I'll say it again, our inability to recognize he's not an EPL level player and move on from him is the most atrocious of managerial issues I've seen. We should have retained Sancho, sacked ETH and Rashford.
You are trying to describe a 15 yard pass as a “terrible” touch just to try and attribute blame to Rashford. Watch it again and see where Nacho is when the pass is played and where the ball ends up - it would have required him to take about 2 steps in the direct he was showing Rashford he was moving.
Just to be clear I’m not attributing blame to Nacho - it’s confusion between them for which I’d say they are equally responsible.
As for the idea he could have dived in, I’d personally prefer our players not to be lunging in at full speed late on an opposition player but each to their own. I can agree it would have been preferable for him to start moving back to his left wing position though, rather than having a debate with Garnacho (which I think is what happened).
It's absolutely insane how Slot has his Liverpool players absolutely busting a gut to get back behind the ball and into shape, the moment they lose the ball...whereas our lot think it's not just "acceptable" to casually jog back (think Dalot on the first goal) but at times that it's actually acceptable to not even pretend to want to jog back and just ends up standing there looking stupid.
Feck you for making me dig out and rewatch the whole shambles again. But I can confirm that it was 100% not a pass, as no player in the history of football has played a 10 yard pass and immediately sprinted in the exact same direction as the “pass”. Because that would be unbelievably stupid. Although maybe that’s something we shouldn’t rule out as far as Rashford is concerned?
Yes... losing the ball was an excuse 'he didn't see him'. Yet you say 'I didn't excuse anything' - can you see where you cocked up?
You then tried to justify his actions by saying it would have been 'pointless' to do anything about it.
I didn't excuse his reaction after losing the ball. He should have tracked back after even if it'd have been pointless
Ha. Yes, obviously not a pass, hence why Garnacho hesitated picking up the ball and allowing Rashford to continue his stride to run onto the ball.
But it was definitely a collective shambles that goal.
Feels like he’s an ever present as we drift from manager to manager. Honestly expect the next manager to place his full trust in him as well….followed by the inevitable happening again.
Ha - to be fair, my apologies for making you watch it again.
Presumably though, you can indeed see that where the pass ends up is about 2 yards away from where Garnacho is standing as it’s played - and in exactly the direction that his body shape is indicating he is about to move?
I suspect Rashford was probably expecting Garnacho to collect it and he would then overlap on the outside. If, as you suggest, Rashford has taken a 15 yard first touch, which coincidentally happened to be to exactly where Garnacho was standing, why was he then confused with Garnacho afterwards? In your scenario, Garnacho is irrelevant because Rashford just messed up his own first touch (by about 15 yards).
This is all academic but I’d pretty much guarantee that if positions were reversed, there would be the same posters in here saying Rashford was at fault for not collecting the simple pass from Garnacho. The reality is that both share a little bit of blame for the confusion but are not the key driving factors in why we conceded that goal.
Watched it back a few times and to me it looks like a clear knock-on to beat the initial tackle - it was never a pass. Garnacho was confused on whether he should pick the ball up but Rashford is solely focused on carrying on with the ball until he decides to pull out of contesting for the ball when he sees VdV.
If the positions were switched, nobody would blame Rashford because it's beyond his control. He's simply trying to progress the attack.
He's done that dribbling it out for a goal kick so much over the last few season it's almost a signature move.
Guarantee it wasn’t a pass. This greedy bastard doesn’t know what a pass is.
Those who think it was a pass presumably think at the end of the match, 65,000 people were saying "BOO-URNS"
After several reviewing, I definitely agree with that. It was too weird of a contact to be a pass
It's a bit surreal how one bad touch then produced comedy of errors and we ended up conceding a goal. Feels like this team never learns from the mistakes. We had a Twente player running half the length of the pitch, which turned out to be a goal for them at the end. Just 3 days later, same thing happens, and we concede again. We have the ability to make opposition players look like world class. Bardji from Copenhagen, Dibling from Southampton, Viska from Fenerbahce. We made Van De Ven look like Bale vs Maicon.
Last year it was the numerous goals we conceded everytime an opposition player did a cut back pass. It's hard to understand this.
Rashford had a better second half, but with Bruno's red, and the early conceded second goal, it was in vain.
Last year it was the numerous goals we conceded everytime an opposition player did a cut back pass. It's hard to understand this.
Rashford had a better second half, but with Bruno's red, and the early conceded second goal, it was in vain.
Ha. He's had two moves, not risking taking on his man and then taking on his man and running the ball out of play. But in fairness, he's had a period of 2-3 matches where he's managed to penetrate the box and even some decent crosses.
I do hope he finds form, but I also hope he's not pampered by the club and sold if he's not producing performances befitting his enormous salary.
It's the tactics. Ten Hag's trying to do his weird mid-block semi-pressing transition counter attack football.
If you loose the ball in a transition moment in attack, the defense looks vunerable because:
1. Team is so spread out in offense to exploit spaces. Makes sense if you can actually exploit the space. But puts you in a bad spot defending wise where you want to be narrow.
2. Our defensive line is not a high or low line. I'm not sure why we're still not committing to high press and high block or low press low block counter attack.
We're bad at #1, mostly due to Rashford just holding up play too long or making dumb decisions like we saw yesterday. Our young players like Garnacho, Amad, Hojlund, Zirkee are not clinical enough to convert to make up for the chances that Bruno and Rashford give up. Bruno you can accept given how much of a shift he puts in and the sheer qty of chances he creates. Not sure why anyone's debating whether Rashford deserves to even play on our squad let alone in the EPL. He'd go straight to China or Saudi and every single Premier League fan/coach knows this except ours i guess? Which is what keeps him here is his marketing potential. So stop talking about him favorably and buying his jerseys and problem will be solved.
So 10% blame on Ten Hag for being a good talker but in general horrible coach. 90% blame on INEOS for not having the balls to drop Rashford/ETH instead of Sancho
FC Porto 3:3 Man Utd
Almost zero threat once he went off, tells you plenty about how average our other wingers are.
Injury? He was very good the first half
Felt our attack really took a hit when he went off.
We basically have to decide between having some threat going forward and defensive work rate. Grim.
Undid everything that went his way tonight. Scored, assisted and failed to help his side block the crosses for their two goals. And he had the opportunity, if only he had the desire.