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2024-25 Performances

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5.1 Season Average Rating
Appearances
22
Goals
7
Assists
3
Yellow cards
2
Irwin99 said:
I never quite understand this excuse- I mean I can understand obviously that when a team collectively struggles the individual level drops, but it shouldn't be by THAT much. Also why is it when Liverpool had a bad season under Klopp a few years ago that, Salah was still banging in 20 goals, or when Chelsea were terrible last season Palmer was putting in unbelievable performances at times? Is it unreasonable to think that a star player in a struggling team can do better than 5 and 8 goals in those two seasons we were awful?

I think he'll do well as a number 9 under the new manager and we'll see an upturn in form, at least for a bit. Whether it continues for more than a few months is anyone's guess. It surely has to be last chance now.

On another note, didn't he say somewhere that he doesn't like playing as much as a number 9 and that he prefers the left-wing role? Maybe I've got that wrong.
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Of course, it’s not a complete excuse but any forward will struggle in a bad set up, especially one who is themselves more of an end product player than creator.

Liverpool’s worst scoring season over the last 7 years is 68 league goals. In that time, we have scored more than that once (and then only by a few goals). Of course, part of that is Salah himself being incredibly consistent but it’s also because he’s played for a team which has been consistently successful and well set up to provide supply to their main man.

A better example of a world class player in a good set up and then struggling when the team morale was low would be Hazard. 23 GA in Chelsea’s title season in 14/15 followed by only 7 GA in the Mourinho meltdown the season after. Back in a good set up in 16/17 and he was back up to 21 GA again. That Chelsea disaster season is as close are you are going to see to the United 21/22 and 23/24 seasons (and arguably our set up last season was even worse).
 
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I really do hope he turns it around under Amorim and starts banging in goals for fun but - unless my eyes have been deceiving me for the last 5 years - he’s just been nowhere near consistently good enough to warrant starting let alone being paid £300k+ pw. His terrible abject sullen displays have far outweighed his brilliant performances, they’ve even outweighed his workmanlike average performances. If Amorim can change this then great, but history has shown with Marcus that his normal standard is far below that what we should expect of a £300k pw striker.
 
van Nistelrooy said:
Martinelli, Doku, Grealish, Mitoma, McNeil and certainly Gordon are all better than Rashford. What have you been watching?
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Clearly you haven't been watching.... Grealish and Doku. I mean Grealish playing for City in last 3 seasons has less goals than Rashford in his worst season. I guess you watch City Train? Cause Grealish played 3.8 games worth of football in the PL.

Martinelli? Seriously? All he does is turn backwards

These are players challenging for the league...
 
romufc said:
Right lovely, now we can have a look.

So you believe that those players are better than Rashford, apart from Son who I agree with, none of them have beaten Rashford's best PL tally.

2. Martinelli is actually rubbish, In a title chasing Arsenal scoring goals had less goals than a poor Rashford in a poor united team. So clearly you are wrong.

3. Neto has 1 PL goal same as Rashford and has a best of 5 PL goals in a season.. compared to 17 PL goals for Rashford in one season

4. Less I speak of Grealish the better who in the last 3 seasons plus this cant get to double figures in a team as the highest scorers.

7. Mitoma had 1 good season and still never reached double figures in PL.. last season and this has been outshun by Rashford.

10/11. Neither have hit double figures.

So you are making alot of things up and talking about metrics? What metrics? Marcus Rashford being in a poor United team being in terrible form still outperforming metrics of these better wingers. None of them could even touch Rashford in form.
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The problem with just looking at goals and assists is that rashford plays like he us prime ronaldo but doesn't offer anywhere near the required output to make that worthwhile. Most of the other players on your list do far more defensively and retain possession better than him. He isn't even good at taking players on anymore
 
Matt851 said:
The problem with just looking at goals and assists is that rashford plays like he us prime ronaldo but doesn't offer anywhere near the required output to make that worthwhile. Most of the other players on your list do far more defensively and retain possession better than him. He isn't even good at taking players on anymore
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I understand the logic, they offer more defensively, I can agree on that. The reason I brought stats into it is the poster said they are all better and then picked 1 players stat.. McNeil this season because he has more than Rashford.. but when I pick stats, its not right?

If someone said, Gordon, Diaz, Gapko, you can see they are having an impact on their teams but players like Doku, Grealish and Martinelli?

I mean if all people are looking at defensively, we might as well go get Dan James back because he was good defensively, or even start Antony...

Grealish can barely even get a game for City, in a team that outscores most teams in the PL, the highest scorers and cannot get more than 5 PL goals?

Arsenal fans are sick and tired of Martinelli too.
 
romufc said:
But they are better than Rashford this season. Its funny some people think McNeil is better than Rashford though.
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They have been, yes. Though that isn't very difficult. Rashford has been poor for a long time. Unfortunately, McNeil has probably been better than Rashford this season also.
 
This thread is becoming nuts: I just don't understand how anyone can rationally (no pun, honestly) conclude this guy is anything other than an over-hyped, technically very limited player, whose periodic, streaky, scoring spells are likely to reduce as he loses more pace. The ego, attitude and entourage just add further negatives.
 
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Also, it's surely not about xyz player elsewhere being better - there are a growing number of players in his position(s) who are demonstrably better - and much more about whether what we've seen over nearly 10 seasons tells us he's going to be good enough to play a leading part in Amorim's plans for the next 2-3 years.

We need to let go of any pretence he's ever going to be a consistently top performer, move on, and move him on. That's the hard part of course. We will struggle to sell him.
 
Katy Cat said:
Also, it's surely not about xyz player elsewhere being better - there are a growing number of players in his position(s) who are demonstrably better - and much more about whether what we've seen over nearly 10 seasons tells us he's going to be good enough to play a leading part in Amorim's plans for the next 2-3 years.

We need to let go of any pretence he's ever going to be a consistently top performer, move on, and move him on. That's the hard part of course. We will struggle to sell him.
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Let me ask you a question.

Can you name the growing number of players in his position that we can sign?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Comparing the stats is interesting. Rashford is actually the most productive (G+A) of all of them over the last three seasons. But there's a price to pay. He's either worst or nearly worst at basically every stat that doesn't involve creating or scoring goals, especially defensively and in terms of number of passes/touches. He really is much more of a goalhanger than a conventional wide player. And if the goals dry up he becomes more of a hindrance than a help.
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I haven’t bothered to check, but isn’t that simply a result of his 2 month scoring run, where almost every attempt ended up in the back of the net, in the 22/23 season? since that spell ended at the end of february 2023, he’s been quite poor at everything that can be measured.
 
romufc said:
Let me ask you a question.

Can you name the growing number of players in his position that we can sign?
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I don't think it's a question of signing a replacement. At least not straight away.

It's part of turrning around our under-performance and making the club competitive, which is a long-term project needing a huge improvement at executive level (where we seem to have got more serious); time; investment; and luck. A big part of that involves dismantling elements of the squad - players who are variously not going to be good enough, are already past their peak, have proven poor injury records, and / or are being paid ridiculous salaries.

That requires some radical cantor and some ruthless decision-making and I'm simply advocating that Rashford should be one of those players we actively seek to move on. In this context, who we might sign as a replacement is all about our future transfer strategy and us getting better - much, much better - at identifying emerging talent and doing deals for the right players, at the right time and at the right price.
 
romufc said:
I dont think its just pressing. Its his concentration.. many times he just doesn't follow his full back / marker.

A top coach can get players pressing better by implementing a press where you have to make shorter runs, its when you press and get side shifted or a one two, he doesnt follow the runner which in a one v one pressing system creates overloads.
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I hope Amorim can get more out of him in every aspect, not just his off the ball game. I think he's often just not well-coordinated when he needs to press, and doesn't time it right, with not enough intensity either. Pogba and Greenwood had the same issues IMO, for example.

romufc said:
Although I am critical of Rashford this is just absurd.
@Rojofiam is this why you thought I was comparing him to Mitoma?

I mean he is clearly in the top 20% of wingers rather than bottom.
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That post is a good example of how underrated Rashford has become for large portions of the fanbase. Guys like Garnacho, Trossard, Doku, Mitoma, McNeil, etc. are nowhere near him.

It's not difficult to conclude that, it's just basic player profiling. However, people often ignore individual form, team form, team environment, team role, etc. when judging and comparing two players.
 
Rojofiam said:
I hope Amorim can get more out of him in every aspect, not just his off the ball game. I think he's often just not well-coordinated when he needs to press, and doesn't time it right, with not enough intensity either. Pogba and Greenwood had the same issues IMO, for example.



That post is a good example of how underrated Rashford has become for large portions of the fanbase. Guys like Garnacho, Trossard, Doku, Mitoma, McNeil, etc. are nowhere near him.

It's not difficult to conclude that, it's just basic player profiling. However, people often ignore individual form, team form, team environment, team role, etc. when judging and comparing two players.
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I mean our conversation started with you rating Rashford more than me and me being accused of underrating him.

Only to be told my stance means I rate him really highly.

I bet some of the fans rating him that low have not seen full 90 mins of said players this season except when playing against us because players like Grealish can barely even get on the football pitch.

Yep, it is a Rashford agenda.
 
Rojofiam said:
I hope Amorim can get more out of him in every aspect, not just his off the ball game. I think he's often just not well-coordinated when he needs to press, and doesn't time it right, with not enough intensity either. Pogba and Greenwood had the same issues IMO, for example.
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Weird take. Fernandes is a player where you can say that maybe he’s not well-coordinated in his press, because too often in the past he’s pressed without the team pressing, so it has the opposite effect and creates space for the opposition.

Rashford barely presses at all, more often than not it’s a rather lazy approach where it’s a half arsed gamble on a player going left rather than making sure the player doesn’t get past him.

Greenwood went from working hard to hardly working, cheating in his press and turned extremely selfish in his last season at the club. Too much freedom overall.

Rashford at his best, and we’re talking years ago, would be a very interesting player for Amorim, so fingers crossed he’s spent time analyzing Rashfords performances over the years and came up with a plan on how to get him back to his best, as nothing would be better.
 
Doracle said:
Of course, it’s not a complete excuse but any forward will struggle in a bad set up, especially one who is themselves more of an end product player than creator.

Liverpool’s worst scoring season over the last 7 years is 68 league goals. In that time, we have scored more than that once (and then only by a few goals). Of course, part of that is Salah himself being incredibly consistent but it’s also because he’s played for a team which has been consistently successful and well set up to provide supply to their main man.

A better example of a world class player in a good set up and then struggling when the team morale was low would be Hazard. 23 GA in Chelsea’s title season in 14/15 followed by only 7 GA in the Mourinho meltdown the season after. Back in a good set up in 16/17 and he was back up to 21 GA again. That Chelsea disaster season is as close are you are going to see to the United 21/22 and 23/24 seasons (and arguably our set up last season was even worse).
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Your Hazard example i'm not so sure about as I believe it's pretty much acknowledged that he was one of the players that deliberately chucked Jose under the bus that year and it's also worth noting his numbers in every other year (even when Chelsea finished outside the top 4) were still impressive. There are plenty of other players who have played in struggling teams but have notched up respectable numbers- a great example is Bruno Fernandes who, despite all the criticism and terrible team and individual performances, has notched up at least a combined total of 20 goals and assists in each season he's had here.

You obviously get some people who are idiots and abuse players online or in person and that's not on, but for the majority of fans I don't think they're picking on Rashford, they're just extremely skeptical about whether he'll ever be the player we want him to be. I feel exactly the same about Luke Shaw (ten seasons and only three of them have been any good). As fans we're having the same conversations we were having three years ago.

I think (and hope) he'll do well for Amorim in the short term. In the long term? god knows! The last 3 or 4 years don't fill me with confidence.
 
NotChatGPT said:
Rashford at his best, and we’re talking years ago, would be a very interesting player for Amorim, so fingers crossed he’s spent time analyzing Rashfords performances over the years and came up with a plan on how to get him back to his best, as nothing would be better.
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I remember him breaking through and I am sure he used to press and had alot of energy.

Its when Ole came, he gave our forwards a bit more leeway for pressing, allowing them to cheat. I remember watching Dan James when he came and he used to be good at pressing and tracking back, thereafter it slowly died down.

Also, when you have others around you pressing and tracking, when one player doesn't, the team will make sure that player is aware.

Off the ball should be a non negotiable for managers. On the ball, players can be better than others as more have talent but off the ball, you have to work hard.
 
romufc said:
Although I am critical of Rashford this is just absurd.
@Rojofiam is this why you thought I was comparing him to Mitoma?

I mean he is clearly in the top 20% of wingers rather than bottom.
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And your data to support that statement is? Your expertise as a football player evaluator? You have professional experience?

We live in 2024 where players are measured by statistics. In fact clubs have entire teams dedicated to this scientific field. You can actually freely access those statistics and see how any of our players benchmarks on sites like Fbref. Rashford for example is bottom 20% in every key statistical category across all top 5 league wingers. And ironically is top 80% in all the undesirable categories for wingers.

The average person can confidently conclude from this that he actually is not great at his job and is vastly overpaid. The only reason a coaching staff would ignore the data they pay their analyst teams to generate is if there are cultural, financial motivations at play. Which goes back to LVG, Mourinho, Ralf's comments on how we were a commercially motivated club not one that cares about football results.

Now with the new ownership the message is that has changed. So far they are doing the right things, but you can't change every player/culture at once. Let's see if they slowly and systematically drive positive culture change so focus is on football results and not only commercial.
 
Footyislife said:
And your data to support that statement is? Your expertise as a football player evaluator? You have professional experience?

We live in 2024 where players are measured by statistics. In fact clubs have entire teams dedicated to this scientific field. You can actually freely access those statistics and see how any of our players benchmarks on sites like Fbref. Rashford for example is bottom 20% in every key statistical category across all top 5 league wingers. And ironically is top 80% in all the undesirable categories for wingers.

The average person can confidently conclude from this that he actually is not great at his job and is vastly overpaid. The only reason a coaching staff would ignore the data they pay their analyst teams to generate is if there are cultural, financial motivations at play. Which goes back to LVG, Mourinho, Ralf's comments on how we were a commercially motivated club not one that cares about football results.

Now with the new ownership the message is that has changed. So far they are doing the right things, but you can't change every player/culture at once. Let's see if they slowly and systematically drive positive culture change so focus is on football results and not only commercial.
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Well, firstly I would advise you look at the career as a whole rather than picking the timescales where he is in the worst form and the team in the worst form.

I look at it with context not just look at stats and decide.
You can have an idea of what you want a winger to do whereas someone else will have different metrics.

For instance, if you have a great CF then you want your wingers to create and if you don't, you want your wingers to create.

I dont need stats, expertise, experience to see that Rashford scores when motivated and in form in a game changer. I can mention numerous games where he has done that.. can you with Mitoma, Martinelli, Grealish, Doku, McNeil?

When you look at Rashford in a well performing team his stats will be alot better than in a poor performing team.

For example.. here are Kobbie Mainoo stats this season
https://fbref.com/en/players/c6220452/scout/365_m1/Kobbie-Mainoo-Scouting-Report

Would you say he is bottom 30% of CM's?
 
I don't rely on stats a whole lot, although I do appreciate the value of analytical data in helping a player improve his game. Whatever it is that's holding Rashford back from returning to his top gear of form from a few seasons ago, the reality is that he has dropped off dramatically in virtually every aspect of his play. Whether Amorim can work with him to become a productive footballer again remains to be seen, but if Rashford can't find that next gear even if it's doing the boring but necessary work of tracking back, then I would suggest to the new manager that he rely more heavily on other players who are willing to perform on both sides of the ball, whoever that may be, come what may.
 
I’m not sure many here realize how bad Rashford has been for the past 18 months. It’s not “a bad patch of form” and even this year he’s actually working pretty hard/doing defensive work.

He simply doesn’t have a reliable game right now outside of that off ball diagonal run in behind he’s done his entire career. He’s not a consistent take on threat, not a particularly good passer, isn’t really a combination type player, and in general is a decent finisher but hardly a gunman in front of goal and often blows hot and cold in that sense. He’s got a decent cross and can threaten teams cutting inside and shooting as he can strike the hell out of the ball power wise, but that’s mostly what he offers at this point and he’s doing that while being generally poor in duels/in the air/ out of possession. And underlying metrics generally back all of this up as well.

People want to dog the strikers/Garnacho/Amad/Mount/and even Bruno for our struggles in consistently scoring, but it’s hard to overstate how much of a drag it is having a player who is supposed to be a marquee superstar attacker (and is paid like one) perform like a run of the mill Prem forward you might find on any mid table team.
 
Katy Cat said:
This thread is becoming nuts: I just don't understand how anyone can rationally (no pun, honestly) conclude this guy is anything other than an over-hyped, technically very limited player, whose periodic, streaky, scoring spells are likely to reduce as he loses more pace. The ego, attitude and entourage just add further negatives.
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I believe it's a similar issue to the OGS reign, only it's easier to move on from managers than players on obscene wages and long contacts. You can't just sack a player, so you'll have fans hoping more than anything that they eventually come good for the sake of the club, which is understandable. In Rashford's case, as with OGS, there's an element of sentimentalism because he came through the academy.
 
romufc said:
But they are better than Rashford this season. Its funny some people think McNeil is better than Rashford though.
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People just look at stats. Goals and assists but football always has been and always will be about more than that. There’s alot that goes on between.


goals and assists win you games though, so if rashford was playing crap but doing the two, nobody would care.
 
Guv77 said:
This came out weeks ago start of the month. Didn’t happen in this international break.
He can do and watch whatever he wants on his break.
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Regardless of when this happened, my point is that this wasn't made viral like going to a basketball game.
 
Hopefully he's off to a positive start, maybe it will drown out the noise from the likes of @Walters_19_MuFc complaining about Rashford not getting enough media attention.
 
Deserves to start over Hojlund IMHO. Easily. Whether he wants to seize the opportunity is down to his mental state.
 
Ipswich 1:1 Man Utd New
Lack of talent, all 3 of our forwards lack so much talent.
 
Insane that he manages to be one of the worst players on the pitch even when he has scored.

Just dreadful in everything and we should do everything we can to get rid.
 
The goal saves this from being a 1/10 performance. He has never had a good game as a CF, and hasn't had a good game in almost 2 years.
 
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