[Pughnichi]

It doesn't though, does it? Unless the corner or free kick he takes...creates a chance?

Surely you can't really believe it's as simple as 'players top chance creation lists because they take set pieces', right?

issue with Bruno…for me at least

He does make the assist with a great cross…but for the majority of the game he’s terrible and 1x assist doesn’t mask a poor performance

Yes. Well done for a good cross. I just want a bit more in possession from him

He’s just so wasteful. His defenders suggest it’s because he’s brave with his passes trying to create more. I’d argue if he played it safer, the next pass would similarly create the chance he’s trying to force

Better captains in the squad as well.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Did your eye fail to see the assist for the first goal? Also that he's been the best chance creator in Europe since he joined us?

Did Squaka fail to see Amads assist or Dalots assist? Seems a strange choice of words by them, true no one did provide more assists than him but people provided the same amount as he did.

I’ve seen him play worse, don’t think it was that poor just his usual standard. Needs to improve. There was one point where Amad carved open a chance for him and your watching it thinking this is a goal Bruno is coming on to this first time curled in top corner and for some reason he didn’t take on the shot. Bottled it, took a touch and then the chance was gone. Looked an easy finish.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

As I understand it, if we are enjoying decent possession and the team is passing it around, if Bruno spams a ball into the box anywhere near a player it’s a chance created. Even if it was a horrible waste of possession. I’ve watched games where we have been very poor, Bruno has given the ball away cheaply many times and still tops the chances created stat.

There was a map of his big chances created last season doing the rounds and if you look at it most of his big chances are passes out to Rashford on the wing who has then come inside and taken a shot from 20+ yards so it’s kind of a con of a stat. Big chance should be laying it across the face of the 6 yarder or playing a ball inside the 18 yarder to some one with only a goalie to beat.

 

[Grand Vizier]

It doesn't though, does it? Unless the corner or free kick he takes...creates a chance?

Surely you can't really believe it's as simple as 'players top chance creation lists because they take set pieces', right?

It does as long as there is a United player that touches the ball first, regardless if it is an actual chance or not. You remember Pascal Gross, a defensive midfielder leading the stat almost all the way and eventually being second last year? A defensive midfielder with most chances created
I really don't like the use of that stat, but much rather use big chances created. Bruno creates a lot of big chances too, though so gotta give credit.

 

[Pickle85]

issue with Bruno…for me at least

He does make the assist with a great cross…but for the majority of the game he’s terrible and 1x assist doesn’t mask a poor performance

Yes. Well done for a good cross. I just want a bit more in possession from him

He’s just so wasteful. His defenders suggest it’s because he’s brave with his passes trying to create more. I’d argue if he played it safer, the next pass would similarly create the chance he’s trying to force

Better captains in the squad as well.

But I'd argue that we don't have a player in the squad for whom the natural 'next pass' is one that opens the opposition up. Bruno is the guy that makes that pass.

There was a map of his big chances created last season doing the rounds and if you look at it most of his big chances are passes out to Rashford on the wing who has then come inside and taken a shot from 20+ yards so it’s kind of a con of a stat. Big chance should be laying it across the face of the 6 yarder or playing a ball inside the 18 yarder to some one with only a goalie to beat.

Do you have a link to this? Also, a shot from 20+ yards out wide wouldn't count as a big chance would it?

It does as long as there is a United player that touches the ball first, regardless if it is an actual chance or not. You remember Pascal Gross, a defensive midfielder leading the stat almost all the way and eventually being second last year? A defensive midfielder with most chances created
I really don't like the use of that stat, but much rather use big chances created. Bruno creates a lot of big chances too, though so gotta give credit.

It's a pass leading to a shot, no? Not just one where a player touches the ball.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

There was a map of his big chances created last season doing the rounds and if you look at it most of his big chances are passes out to Rashford on the wing who has then come inside and taken a shot from 20+ yards so it’s kind of a con of a stat. Big chance should be laying it across the face of the 6 yarder or playing a ball inside the 18 yarder to some one with only a goalie to beat.

Yeah this is absolute nonsense, “big chance created” isn’t a pass to someone who cuts inside and takes a 20 yard shot. You’re either talking out of your backside else you’ve been stupidly hoodwinked by some moron on twitter.


Here’s what is considered a “big chance”:

A situation where a player should reasonably be expected to score, usually in a one on one scenario or from very close range when the ball has a clear path to goal and there is low to moderate pressure on the shooter. Penalties are always considered big chances.

Source: https://www.statsperform.com/opta-event-definitions/

How could you even think that what you described would come under the definition of big chance?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

But I'd argue that we don't have a player in the squad for whom the natural 'next pass' is one that opens the opposition up. Bruno is the guy that makes that pass.

Do you have a link to this? Also, a shot from 20+ yards out wide wouldn't count as a big chance would it?

It's a pass leading to a shot, no? Not just one where a player touches the ball.

Someone posted it on the CAF last season. I can’t recall what thread it was in I’m afraid.

If you look in to the model they use to determine XG, XA you’ll see that it is extremely flawed and only works in conjunction with viewing the action. I shouldn’t have used “big chance” and just chances.

Erik and Amad created chances yesterday actually I’d argue they are genuinely players possible of creating higher quality chances than Bruno. Because in the end this is the issue with Bruno. He doesn’t create as many high quality chances as he should. Creates a lot of speculative half chances yes, this is not to say that on occasion he doesn’t create dead certs, see FA Cup final but he doesn’t do it enough.
People say he creates more than KDB but watch a highlight reel of either of them and there is only one winner on who creates the better chances.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Yeah this is absolute nonsense, “big chance created” isn’t a pass to someone who cuts inside and takes a 20 yard shot. You’re either talking out of your backside else you’ve been stupidly hoodwinked by some moron on twitter.


Here’s what is considered a “big chance”:



Source: https://www.statsperform.com/opta-event-definitions/

How could you even think that what you described would come under the definition of big chance?

As explained in the response I shouldn’t have used the wording “big chances’ and just chances. As it was a chance creation map. Ie encompassing all his chances created at that point in the season.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

As explained in the response I shouldn’t have used the wording “big chances’ and just chances. As it was a chance creation map. Ie encompassing all his chances created at that point in the season.

Which is the same for everyone, and doesn’t he also tend to lead the important big chances stat also?

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Fails to deliver in nearly every big game.

Except for when he scores and assists vs City, Arsenal and Spurs, scores vs Chelsea and assists vs Barca.

 

[MDFC Manager]

“Success”

Shoo in for the ballon d'or

 

[Tony247]

Zirkzee passes is what I expect from Bruno because he used to do the same. God knows what happened to old Bruno.

 

[NZT-One]

He got off to a poor start last season too and it took him a while to get going.

Hopefully plays better next game.

Hopefully the trend won't look the same as last season as it took until January/February to become good.

Nope. Chances Created
Chances Created are defined by Opta as Key Passes plus Assists. A player will be credited with a Chance Created if they play the final pass leading to the recipient of the ball having an attempt at goal (Key Pass), or if they are or are credited with an Assist or a Fantasy Assist. Where the final pass prior to a shot is blocked or deflected, this will not be credited as a Key Pass for the purposes of Chances Created.

But isn't the initial point right then? He is taking our corners and every corner that ends in an attempt is a chance created on Brunos account. Nothing wrong with it but that gives him an advantage in that aspect in comparison to everybody not on set piece duty. And that is just an observation, not really a judgement of being or a good or a bad thing.

 

[Grand Vizier]

It's a pass leading to a shot, no? Not just one where a player touches the ball

If I understood it correctly, it is any pass that leads to a shot (or header, or any other body part) that ends up on the goal, whether it moves 100 km/h or 10 km/h. The chance could be created from a 60 yard pass, 1 yard pass, cross or a set piece so it gives an indication that this statistic have too many variables to be valuable, which is why big chances created is a much better measurement to use.
I'm not sure if it exists but I would love to see a chances created stat where you can exclude set pieces to give a better picture of how many of these key passes come from open play.

 

[Robbie Boy]

“Success”

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Would anyone else have him deeper?

Think he’s best when he’s on the ball more and I think he’d do well in a more traditional midfield 3 with Ugarte and Mainoo

When he slows down a touch, I’d definitely have him deeper anyway

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Which is the same for everyone, and doesn’t he also tend to lead the important big chances stat also?

The model is flawed which is why it can’t be the sole basis but only used as part of a tool to help objectively discuss who creates better chances. Because not all “big chances” are the same.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The model is flawed which is why it can’t be the sole basis but only used as part of a tool to help objectively discuss who creates better chances. Because not all “big chances” are the same.

That’s the thing, they are an opportunity where one realistically can expect to score. So yes, from that you can absolutely say they tell you which players are best at creating opportunities for their team in which they should expect to score.

It’s no surprise though as it’s by far Bruno’s best quality, you need only watch with your own eyes to know he creates an incredible amount of brilliant opportunities for his teammates.

What the stat obviously can’t tell you is everything else outside of that.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Would anyone else have him deeper?

Think he’s best when he’s on the ball more and I think he’d do well in a more traditional midfield 3 with Ugarte and Mainoo

When he slows down a touch, I’d definitely have him deeper anyway

When you say deeper do you mean as like an 8 as in a midfield trio or 2 sitting behind him like we used to use him?
As a three I just don’t see it because we’ve tried it with him and he has shown on occasion he can be disciplined and honestly when he has done that I think it’s probably produced his best performances. However he for whatever reason he then reverts to type, loses the positional discipline, hides from the ball, is lazy and doesn’t make easy offers for the man on the ball.

Add in for someone who can on occasion can pull out worldie passes his short range passing is very underwhelming. So I just don’t see it with the lack of consistency in his performances there. If you could guarantee that he’d do the simple effective things in there yes but we can’t so probably better to leave him in some sort of free roll back as the 10 with the 2 behind him. Just maybe not as a strike partner like he is doing at the moment.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

That’s the thing, they are an opportunity where one realistically can expect to score. So yes, from that you can absolutely say they tell you which players are best at creating opportunities for their team in which they should expect to score.

It’s no surprise though as it’s by far Bruno’s best quality, you need only watch with your own eyes to know he creates an incredible amount of brilliant opportunities for his teammates.

What the stat obviously can’t tell you is everything else outside of that.

I guess that is why a lot of eyes don’t agree hence why our striker last season had one of the best conversition rates from so few chances. But I guess that is probably his fault.

 

[Borys]

Would anyone else have him deeper?

Think he’s best when he’s on the ball more and I think he’d do well in a more traditional midfield 3 with Ugarte and Mainoo

When he slows down a touch, I’d definitely have him deeper anyway

He loses possession every second time he's on the ball, how is that possible this option of playing Bruno deeper is suggested here so often is beyond me.

He's basically suffering from Pogba disease, he's great at launching the long balls to start counter attacks- the question is if we want to play that way and sacrifice everything else? Because other than than he's a complete liability in midfield.

 

[pascell]

Giving him a new contract was a mistake, he's been poor the start of this season and I can see him regressing sharpish due to the amount of football he's played.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I guess that is why a lot of eyes don’t agree hence why our striker last season had one of the best conversition rates from so few chances. But I guess that is probably his fault.

There’s nothing to “not agree with”, he creates more opportunities that his side should be expected to score from than anyone. That statement Is factual and I think 99% of eyes absolutely do agree with that, most that don’t fancy Bruno is due to other reasons, often giving away too much possession in trying to create those chances.
I actually think you’re the first I’ve ever seen claiming he isn’t brilliant at creating chances.

The critique of Rasmus on here has always tended to be that his movement hasn’t been good enough to get him into goals scoring positions. That is a general consensus here and it’s one I absolutely agree with, once he works on that he’ll be a hell of a player.

Better to be like Andy Cole and get a tonne of opportunities to miss than to not get yourselves in enough goalscoring positions..

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He loses possession every second time he's on the ball,

Why do posters feel the need to make weird shit up?

 

[Exiled_Red]

He’s been really poor this season so far but I don’t think his legs are going. If anything, I would put it on him being played out of position to start the season and now fighting with Zirkzee for the same spaces on the field.

 

[M16Red]

Every time I speak to people going to the game and even when I watch I ask "what was his position"

This guy is all over the place positionally, he presses on his own, he sometimes is on the left fecking stood next to Rashford - worst captain we've had in years and is passing is over rated.

He'll probably get a goal soon or an asset and posters will be on hype bruno train again, but too me he is a fundamental problem.

 

[Borys]

Why do posters feel the need to make weird shit up?

Maybe if more posters ale saying this, there's some truth in it.

 

[M Bison]

Maybe if more posters ale saying this, there's some truth in it.

But it’s a stat that could be proved so I’m sure if you could show that his pass completion was 50% then it wouldn’t be questioned by other players?

I’ll save you a job though, it’s not <50%…

 

[Scandi Red]

I’ll save you a job though, it’s not <50%…

This season it's even better than Ødegaard and Palmer's actually. And that is despite Bruno being far more involved and taking set-pieces (which is negative for pass completion stats obviously).

So far this season you can criticize Bruno for not being creative enough and for not scoring more goals. Both are valid criticisms. But he has not been sloppy in possession.

When people watch the game with confirmation bias, any missed pass will feel like 10. But facts are facts.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Maybe if more posters ale saying this, there's some truth in it.

Yesterday it was 87%, (v Liverpool 86%, Brighton 77%, Fulham 84%) so it doesn’t matter what posters “say”, there’s no ”truth” in people being hyperbolic as feck.

 

[Borys]

Yesterday it was 87%, (v Liverpool 86%, Brighton 77%, Fulham 84%) so it doesn’t matter what posters “say”, there’s no ”truth” in people being hyperbolic as feck.

It was a hyperbole indeed. Overcooked as well. But he does lose the ball way too often to even consider moving him deeper.

Second question is if he plays more conservative role, then against what's the point of restraining his biggest strength?

He's the kind of player you give freedom to attack and roam around the box, or you don't play him at all. We must stop this madness of pretending that an attacking midfielder is just a regular midfielder that just comes with better attacking attributes as a bonus. This club seems crazy about this idea.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Zirkzee passes is what I expect from Bruno because he used to do the same. God knows what happened to old Bruno.

Zirkzee and Amad passes. Calm, simple but effective. Forget the Hollywood shit.

 

[caid]

Passing wouldn't be my concern in a deeper midfield role. It would be press resistance, he's lost the ball in our half to pretty disastrous effect at times. Playing with his back to goal and dribbling out of tight situations aren't strengths. I dont think age will be a huge obstacle to him, he'll need to adjust his timing and cover less ground but i'd expect him to stay at a good level for a pretty long time.

 

[lost7]

Came on, got 2 assists and looked real good in terms of link up play. More of this in the premier league needed

 

[Bobski]

People are just looking for a reason to bitch about him now, so you end up with massively negative reactions in match threads after he gives away 1 pass. It is really dumb.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Took the piss when he came on. Brilliant!

 

[Scandi Red]

He's gone down in pretty much every positive metric this season (apart from pass accuracy, funny enough). But he somehow still has 4 assists in 5 games (in terms of total minutes played). Some of those assists have been nice too.

Perhaps a more subdued and quiet Bruno who still racks up assists and key passes due to his undeniable x-factor is just what we need? We know that he's heavily involved in the game either way (touches, ground covered and tackles). It's nice if players like Amad, Garnacho, Zirkzee and Højlund can step up and steal the headlines.

 

[Alemar]

2A in 15 minutes. We need more of this from Bruno

 

[Isotope]

2A in 15 minutes. We need more of this from Bruno

Could've been 4, with that Garnacho open goal miss, and that superb pass to Amad.

 

[Bwuk]

4 assists in 6 games. Hard to argue against it.