[Fobal]

This is going to be a circular argument. I see your point and am not discounting limits in his game, but rushing, bad passes and chaos are all symptoms of a poorly functioning team. You watch the very very best and they're not even looking at eachother - they just know where teammates are, where their teammate wants it, everything just flows in a well drilled team. He has never had that luxury around him. When he goes chaosmode when trailing it's infuriating but honestly these days it's him or nobody. If he was at that when surrounded by Carrick, Scholes, Keane, or even Fletcher and all those brilliant hard working brave players, then fair enough - but hes been surrounded by quitters who simply do not want the pressure, for the most part

It's not just that, the thing with Bruno it's that he has those tendencies on any given team, on any given circumstances. He is what he is. And from time to time he has a more calm, clever game.

I think thougth that those tendencies can be mitigated with a system around that minimize such stuff, yet at the same time him being a leader, would required a player/or players of similar or above status to calm him down, to give him some order, to release him of the pressure of being the provider full time and to also call him when he acts like sometimes does a bit like a cnut with his mates. Bruno is a player that even with mates offering as an option of pass, he might try to invent a pass that only him sees or rush one because of feelling pressure. That won't go away with a better team around, yet could be mitigated to take advantage of his great strike, his verticality and eye for the goal.

All in all he was vital to the tie today, he still did great plays and the main issue with him would always be that in a Club that had a tendency in the past for agressive, compose, press resistant and clever mids it's not exactly the type of player Bruno is. I still think that saying that him does not have quality, not a player for a Top Team it's silly as feck, yet it certainly was a "mistake" to try to build a team arond him expecting a different game than what he offers and what United used to have regarding style as offensive mids.

 

[NZT-One]

Well, the free kick was pretty excellent, no?

It was a direct freekick. Nice one. Excellent? Not sure. Looking at replays, I'd question the determination of the wall but no doubt, it was good technique on Brunos part but certainly nothing for the headlines.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

hammered on the forum but as usual the only reason we were even in the game. the system is creating nothing, bruno is creating something individually.

we aren't any better without him - we have seen that plenty of times.

people here just want to cut off the nose to spite the face constantly. they get angry and want to take angry decisions that would make us worse.

No idea why he's decided to stay with United so long when he could be playing at elite clubs around. The lure of "you could be the captain to turn it around" just too much and he's a loyal guy, but for his own sake he'd be appreciated so much more elsewhere.

it is crazy. its a shame the state of the fanbase as he will be mostly remembered for made up negatives in ten years, same as many of the players that have been a positive for us through these years.

 

[Pickle85]

hammered on the forum but as usual the only reason we were even in the game. the system is creating nothing, bruno is creating something individually.

we aren't any better without him - we have seen that plenty of times.

people here just want to cut off the nose to spite the face constantly. they get angry and want to take angry decisions that would make us worse.

it is crazy. its a shame the state of the fanbase as he will be mostly remembered for made up negatives in ten years, same as many of the players that have been a positive for us through these years.

It's so frustrating and the lack of respect for a player that's been our best for years now is saddening. He's regularly the only of our players that looks remotely dangerous or like creating something, yet some will only focus on the misplaced passes when without him trying to actually create we would be entirely impotent.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

It's so frustrating and the lack of respect for a player that's been our best for years now is saddening. He's regularly the only of our players that looks remotely dangerous or like creating something, yet some will only focus on the misplaced passes when without him trying to actually create we would be entirely impotent.

Or people see how he is "captaining" some of our worst teams ever.

 

[NZT-One]

hammered on the forum but as usual the only reason we were even in the game. the system is creating nothing, bruno is creating something individually.

we aren't any better without him - we have seen that plenty of times.

people here just want to cut off the nose to spite the face constantly. they get angry and want to take angry decisions that would make us worse.

it is crazy. its a shame the state of the fanbase as he will be mostly remembered for made up negatives in ten years, same as many of the players that have been a positive for us through these years.

As if his fan club will let this happen...

I liked the "made up negatives" though. Maybe you lucky bastard only switched on the telly at the 70' minute mark today

And fyi - saying that he had a bad game isn't the same as saying "we are better without him". I know it is a strawman that has almost golden retriever like pet level in here by now, but it doesn't really help to answer hyperbole with other hyperbole.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

It was a direct freekick. Nice one. Excellent? Not sure. Looking at replays, I'd question the determination of the wall but no doubt, it was good technique on Brunos part but certainly nothing for the headlines.

I agree with this. He does well to put it on target with some decent pace. But it's pretty much a straight pass in based on what pickford does.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Unfortunately Salah is a different league altogether and comparing the two will not do Bruno any favours. Put Salah into one of those 10 positions and our team would jump multiple levels. Not just because of his goals, but his strength, tenacity, ball retention, short passing, pace and dribbling. Bruno doesn't have these traits so when he is pressed and harried he goes into panic mode and does stupid things.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t comparing the two players directly. I was highlighting what they bring to their teams. Like Salah, Bruno is often the one who produces that bit of magic when it matters, even if he’s having a poor game.

 

[NZT-One]

Just to be clear, I wasn’t comparing the two players directly. I was highlighting what they bring to their teams. Like Salah, Bruno is often the one who produces that bit of magic when it matters, even if he’s having a poor game.

For the record - I think, this isn't the point that is debatable. Bruno will provide pieces of magic no doubt. The question is, on a bad day has somebody like Salah potentially so many potential danger for his own team?

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

For the record - I think, this isn't the point that is debatable. Bruno will provide pieces of magic no doubt. The question is, on a bad day has somebody like Salah potentially so many potential danger for his own team?

Well, they’re completely different players with entirely different roles. Salah operates almost exclusively in the final third, whereas Bruno - even when playing as a number 10 - often drops deep to create chances. Naturally, this puts him in positions where he’s more likely to take risks that could backfire. He also attempts far more high-risk passes, likely because he has to.

 

[Fobal]

I know it's a perfomance thread, yet It would never help to really grab what Bruno is as a player, to anyone: fan, detractor, mere observer of a particular perfomance, if everything becomes black or white with him.

Bruno in many ways, it's like if Becks (that was better as a press resistant player) was the solely creative engine in those United days. Without the personalities (to control his tendencies) and diff characteristics (press ressitant, more metronome alike and with better extra defensive capabilities) of the others around like Scholes, Keane, etc to have a more complete mid in terms of variants.
Not saying that Becks and Bruno are copycats, far form that, yet with some similar tendencies in their game.

When we add the context, the team falling (even current social media), the constant changes in management, coaches, it's quite a chaos for an already quite chaotic player with many of his tendencies.

He shoudln't be defended on everything he does because he tries, or because he scores, or assists, he should not be buried like shyte when he actually does those in a very bad stage of the club.
Yet the real question always would be: was him the type of player to build around like Macguire was to the defense and expecting at the same time playing like Gullit/Rui Costa/Riquelme, meaning players with clear diff characteristics? .
Yet it has to be said, that If United wanted a more frantic, chaotic, transitional mid, he can totally be that guy (still needing better partners). But if the club wanted a more possesion oriented, more cynical, more pragmatic approach and still having a high tempo to attack, he should have been surrounded with players that enhace his best assets and cover or mitigate his lesser ones while not giving the primordal role.

Also that notion that Bruno gets into Brazil 82 (meaning having a better team/mid) and he instantly shines, it's not true, he would be freaking insult at his third rushed attemp from Socrates, Zico and company. Yet he certainly could play with them if he adapts and uses his best assets with measure.

 

[Cloudface]

Just to be clear, I wasn’t comparing the two players directly. I was highlighting what they bring to their teams. Like Salah, Bruno is often the one who produces that bit of magic when it matters, even if he’s having a poor game.

Yeah, I don't want to denigrate Bruno too much as he has been great for us and can still be magic. I just think that his bottom level can be self-destructive and the highs aren't hitting as often anymore.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yeah, I don't want to denigrate Bruno too much as he has been great for us and can still be magic. I just think that his bottom level can be self-destructive and the highs aren't hitting as often anymore.

Yeah it would be if Salah wasn’t as good and played centrally I guess - they’d get shredded by turnovers just as we have over the years. Partly Bruno being erratic but also tactics - he was definitely encouraged under ole and eth to ping the risky balls very often.

 

[Pickle85]

I agree with this. He does well to put it on target with some decent pace. But it's pretty much a straight pass in based on what pickford does.

feck me the lengths some will go to to try to discredit him

 

[NZT-One]

feck me the lengths some will go to to try to discredit him

If it is excellent to you, it can be a straight pass to somebody else. Hyperbole breeds hyperbole. And nobody discredited the player - you were the one calling the freekick "excellent". Comments was probably more about how his stuff is perceived by his fans rather than trying to attempt to discredit him. No need for that anyway, the game itself does the talking.

 

[Fobal]

It was a direct freekick. Nice one. Excellent? Not sure. Looking at replays, I'd question the determination of the wall but no doubt, it was good technique on Brunos part but certainly nothing for the headlines.

I agree with this. He does well to put it on target with some decent pace. But it's pretty much a straight pass in based on what pickford does.

It was a very good free kick, he didn't particular based his strike on what Pickford did (was more base in what United players would do to put Pickford in a more precarious situation), nor the wall lacked determination (meaning elevation and such, they lacked being more clever in how to stand and cover or even not cover certain space).
It was a free kick playing with the position of the wall, trying to force them in a place that would complicate Pickford vision while putting two mates in order to create holes to convert, it worked and it was very well executed.

 

[KikiDaKats]

The way he is performing this season we will struggle to keep hold of him. Phenomenal performance, I think he is outgrown this team now.

 

[Kostov]

Apart from the goal, he was garbage. Can't take a corner to save his life, Phil Jones would take a better one than captain Bruno at this rate.

 

[SuperiorXI]

The way he is performing this season we will struggle to keep hold of him. Phenomenal performance, I think he is outgrown this team now.

Is this a wind up? His performance was way below the standards we expect of him. He had a poor game aside from the goal.

 

[KikiDaKats]

Is this a wind up? His performance was way below the standards we expect of him. He had a poor game aside from the goal.

Ah well.. I just think he playing well again this season

 

[lsd]

Usual from him. Responsible for us getting anything in the have and then would have been responsible for us losing at the end.

He is what he is and in all honesty we are his level. I'm not sure a title winning team would put up with him giving the ball away so much no matter how many good things he does as well.

He is us basically

 

[Varun]

The way he is performing this season we will struggle to keep hold of him. Phenomenal performance, I think he is outgrown this team now.

We seem to have seen different games. He was fkin diabolical but obviously, as always, one of those that wanted it the most.

 

[Remember the geese]

The way he is performing this season we will struggle to keep hold of him. Phenomenal performance, I think he is outgrown this team now.

I wouldn't have an issue with him leaving. We shouldn't have offered him a new deal.

 

[Carl]

The way he is performing this season we will struggle to keep hold of him. Phenomenal performance, I think he is outgrown this team now.

Couldn't blame him. Think he's 31 now, so he's got maybe a few years left to win some major trophies.

 

[C'Thun]

I have been a fan for 30+ years and I cannot think of many players as inconsistent as Fernandes. He reminds me of Nani in how they are both capable of the sublime, but also they are the most infuriating players if you watch them play full matches. I am 95% sure that if Nani played for us, in this team, and delivered the same performances for us that he did back then, he would be considered a world class player that could play for Real Madrid, Barcelona and any other top team. Being capable of the sublime doesn't matter if your overall performance is poor. That is what the current version of Bruno is. He is our 2nd best player, but that means little when we are a very poor team. You don't take a look at Everton and think that McNeil or Doucoure aren't a problem if Everton had ambitions to be an elite team. Obviously Fernandes is better than these players, but the point is that he just isn't that player some of our fans want him to be. A team wins nothing with inconsistent players to that degree, no matter how good their top level is.

 

[Shark]

I'll never see Bruno as the problem. The guy plays every minute of every game. He's proven that when he has quality around him he's top drawer but unfortunately attackers like Cavani, Martial, he who must not be named, and Rashford a few years back are the best he's worked with in his time at United.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Couldn't blame him. Think he's 31 now, so he's got maybe a few years left to win some major trophies.

Really, he should leave, he’s had his time here, not a clear role in Amorim system, he’s not going to be part of a final rebuild now so chance of any thing decent here. would be good if he could get a league title somewhere.

And I say as this as someone who thinks we would have been and will be fecked without him unless our transfers massively improve

 

[Pickle85]

If it is excellent to you, it can be a straight pass to somebody else. Hyperbole breeds hyperbole. And nobody discredited the player - you were the one calling the freekick "excellent". Comments was probably more about how his stuff is perceived by his fans rather than trying to attempt to discredit him. No need for that anyway, the game itself does the talking.

Hyperbole breeds hyperbole?! I would say that scoring from a direct free kick in that fashion usually requires excellence, regardless of who did it. And you yourself admitted it was a 'nice one' (notorious as you are for underplaying his contribution). Let's not pretend that "excellent" and "a straight pass" are similarly hyperbolic

 

[Pickle85]

We seem to have seen different games. He was fkin diabolical but obviously, as always, one of those that wanted it the most.

Fkin diabolical is absolute nonsense. Give your head a wobble.

 

[NZT-One]

I'll never see Bruno as the problem. The guy plays every minute of every game. He's proven that when he has quality around him he's top drawer but unfortunately attackers like Cavani, Martial, he who must not be named, and Rashford a few years back are the best he's worked with in his time at United.

No matter how often it is said, I don't think he has proven anything like that. And even if we allow such a reduction, those times are now gone since years.

Hyperbole breeds hyperbole?! I would say that scoring from a direct free kick in that fashion usually requires excellence, regardless of who did it. And you yourself admitted it was a 'nice one' (notorious as you are for underplaying his contribution). Let's not pretend that "excellent" and "a straight pass" are similarly hyperbolic

Well maybe those are language barriers at play once again but to me, both descriptions are mostly the same level. I rewatched it on youtube and while it has been a good freekick, I can't see anything special with it. A direct freekick that goes in without a serious deflection to me will always be a nice one but to be excellent, he has to either hit with as a super hard screamer, a big draw into the top corner without any chance of a save or at some crazy unexpected angle. It was neither of that. Doesn't mean it is a shit 0815 hit (hopefully that reference works in English) but I am pretty safe it won't find its way into any kinds of compilations about freekicks. I mean, It was the first direct freekick for United since... must be a long time ago so it still may find its way into a compilation because of its rarity but certainly not because it was such a great thing to hit.

Look, if you think, it was excellent, thats fine. Subjectivity. We aren't going to find a common ground in this question anyways.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

Anyone who sees this man as the problem is fecking insane.

 

[rooney2009]

He is the only player i have ever seen that can go from the ridiculous to the sublime in the same game.
He was so bad in the 1st half and so so good in the 2nd half it was unbelievable and this happens so much with Bruno.
He is our best player by a mile and our captain so maybe we just need to give him a free role like Carlton Palmer has at Chelsea.

 

[C'Thun]

Anyone who sees this man as the problem is fecking insane.

I don't think anyone views him as the main problem, but any player in the starting eleven that isn't good enough to deliver the goods consistently is a problem, in my eyes. He is an attacking midfielder that has three goals penalties excluded in the league in 25 games. That is good enough for you? It certainly isn't for me.

My biggest issue with him is that he relies on his passing to be creative every time. He does not have the ability to drive forward with the ball or dribble past players or into the penalty box to open up space and opportunities. That means if his passing is poor that game, which to be honest, is quite frequently these days, he becomes a liability because instead of creating, he is gifting the ball to the opposition. In my opinion, we can't have key players that are poor one half, and then good the next half in each game. Consistency is key. Look at the difference an attacking midfielder like Morgan Rogers does for the attacking play when you are able to pass, drive and dribble. Those qualities combined makes you unpredictable, dangerous and always a threat. I think these attacking midfielders are going to define the number 10 position going forward in the Premier League. Cunha, Rogers and Gibbs-White are all quite similar, and they are all doing very good.
With Bruno, he looks for the killer pass every time and defenders know it. Sometimes, they're not able to do anything with it because the pass comes so quick and is so sharp, but most of the time, he is very predictable in the sense that he is going to make the pass and defenders can just mark the player, and not really worry about anything else Bruno is going to do. This season in particular, these excellent passes that he used to make every game are becoming more and more rare, and personally, I don't think his strengths outweigh his flaws anymore.