Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
devilish said:
I think this mentality is older then the empire itself. The spat between the Roman Catholic Church and Henry Tudor is basically Brexit all over again.
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Hmmm this is a hot take I haven't heard before, tell me more
 
Sassy Colin said:
It's not his fault the country is full of racists.

Yet again I have to point out that his only fault in this was his naivety in underestimating the stupidness of the British voting public.
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It is his fault that his approach to politics was basically high stakes gambling and he quit the table the moment the cards didn't go his way. A reckless and irresponsible leader
 
sun_tzu said:
I don't even know if remain would be on the ballot... If forced to a second ref I could see may proposing leave with my deal or leave with no deal
Basically the people chose to leave and now they will decide if the EU offer is acceptable
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Remain has to be an option.... I.e. the now we actually know what's on the table referendum. Or put another way, the first vote was a temperature check, getting us to this process. And then there is the reality check.

I'd vote to have a Ferrari if someone told me they would pay all the fuel, repair costs, insurance and a heavy discount. If reality turns out the Ferrari is a Skoda, the wheels don't count in repairs and will cost 500% more, there will be a road tax, there will a storage tax, the repairs will need to be done in China only, etc, I'd probably say hey I can do without the Ferrari with one of Brexit related reasons: I wasn't that fussed anyway, didn't read the T&Cs, I'm a dumb fcuk, what are you saying stop talking, urgh I just want white cars but thats never going to happen.
 
Sassy Colin said:
It's not his fault the country is full of racists.

Yet again I have to point out that his only fault in this was his naivety in underestimating the stupidness of the British voting public.
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Nonsense, he nearly allowed the split of the UK and then allowed the self-sabotage that is brexit. He absolved himself from the role of protecting the countries interests in exchange for political capital.

His fault is not naivety in making a bad gamble it's making it in the first place and putting party before country.
 
villain said:
I had a debate with one of my colleagues who voted for Brexit the other day - and this whole idea of the British Empire being able to negotiate better deals without the EU.

The thought popped in my head that the British public haven't dealt with the collapse of the British Empire.
I think that's a conversation to be had another day, but I think it feeds into the notion of some of those who support Brexit.
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impCon.png
 
villain said:
Hmmm this is a hot take I haven't heard before, tell me more
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Id suggest you read about it. The King was a devout Catholic who wrote a book about how important it is for the church to act as a moral compass over Europe. He also decided to marry his dead brother's widow Catherine D'Aragon as she was one of the most powerful women in the world being the daughter of Isabella d'Aragon and the aunt of Charles V who basically ruled half of Europe. That was until Henry lost hope in his wife producing a male heir and his lover refused to let him touch her unless she becomes queen.

Henry decided to commit a massive U-Turn on both church teachings and his wife and ask for a divorce. The Church surprisingly took an open minded view about and even sent Cardinal Campeggio who first tried to reconcile the couple then to pressure Catherine to retire in some monastery. Yet things needed to be dealt delicately as divorce went against the church teachings and Nephew Charles wasn't exactly someone the church wanted to piss off.

Well, time and patience weren't exactly Henry's strength as he demanded the Church to take the decision ASAP. Pressured by Henry's thugs Campeggio and his ilk decided to shift matters out of London and into the pope's court which infuriated Henry further. He decided to get back control, by leaving the church, marry Anne Boleyn and create a religion of his own. It turned out that Anne Boleyn couldn't produce a male heir either and was executed. In total Henry had 6 wives, 2 of which ended up beheaded and 1 who lived in misery for all her life. His dynasty died 1 generation after as his son Edward died as a young man, Mary died with what is thought to be cancer and Elizabeth was too traumatised to get married and rescind power to yet another male.

All English were effected by this madness. The Catholics suffered under Henry, Edward and Elizabeth while the Protestants suffered under Mary, whom, like her mother was catholic. There was also a crusade against England which was a failure, which lead to a counter crusade by the English on the Spanish which also failed
 
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devilish said:
Id suggest you read about it. The King was a devout Catholic who wrote a book about how important it is for the church to act as a moral compass over Europe. He also decided to marry his dead brother's widow Catherine D'Aragon as she was one of the most powerful women in the world being the daughter of Isabella d'Aragon and the aunt of Charles V who basically ruled half of Europe. That was until Henry lost hope in his wife producing a male heir and his lover refused to let him touch her unless she becomes queen.

Henry decided to commit a massive U-Turn on both church teachings and his wife and ask for a divorce. The Church surprisingly took an open minded view about and even sent Cardinal Campeggio who first tried to reconcile the couple then to pressure Catherine to retire in some monastery. Yet things needed to be dealt delicately as divorce went against the church teachings and Nephew Charles wasn't exactly someone the church wanted to piss off.

Well, time and patience weren't exactly Henry's strength as he demanded the Church to take the decision ASAP. Pressured by Henry's thugs Campeggio and his ilk decided to shift matters out of London and into the pope's court which infuriated Henry further. He lost it completely by leaving the church, marry Anne Boleyn and create a religion of his own. It turned out that Anne Boleyn couldn't produce a male heir either and was executed. In total Henry had 6 wives, 2 of which ended up beheaded and 1 who lived in misery for all her life. His dynasty died 1 generation after as his son Edward died as a young man, Mary died with what is thought to be cancer and Elizabeth was too traumatised to get married and rescind power to yet another male.

All English were effected by this madness. The Catholics suffered under Henry, Edward and Elizabeth while the Protestants suffered under Mary, whom, like her mother was catholic. There was also a crusade against England which was a failure, which lead to a counter crusade by the English on the Spanish which also failed
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Yeah I know the history of Henry VIII I had just never heard the comparison with Brexit before - i'm assuming you're saying the two are linked because everybody was affected by his rash decision making and short sightedness? Surely that's not just limited to Henry VIII?

Aboutreika18 said:
impCon.png
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Makes sense. Accurate representation of the British empire isn't taught in schools, and I certainly wasn't taught about colonialism at all.
 
Sassy Colin said:
It's not his fault the country is full of racists.

Yet again I have to point out that his only fault in this was his naivety in underestimating the stupidness of the British voting public.
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It is his fault he spent years pandering to them though for electoral self-gain. If he'd valued the EU so much he probably shouldn't have spent years scapegoating it for his own government's failings.
 
Rehman Chishti Conservative MP:
Lets be frank, brexit meant many things to many people, there wasn't one issue. But what was clear was that we have to respect the will of the people and that means leaving on the 29th of march."
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FFS, these people are so intellectually dishonest that they don't even notice when the say contradictory things within two sentences. How are these people the representatives of such a proud nation?

At least Donald is honest about liking hamburgers...
 
devilish said:
Id suggest you read about it. The King was a devout Catholic who wrote a book about how important it is for the church to act as a moral compass over Europe. He also decided to marry his dead brother's widow Catherine D'Aragon as she was one of the most powerful women in the world being the daughter of Isabella d'Aragon and the aunt of Charles V who basically ruled half of Europe. That was until Henry lost hope in his wife producing a male heir and his lover refused to let him touch her unless she becomes queen.

Henry decided to commit a massive U-Turn on both church teachings and his wife and ask for a divorce. The Church surprisingly took an open minded view about and even sent Cardinal Campeggio who first tried to reconcile the couple then to pressure Catherine to retire in some monastery. Yet things needed to be dealt delicately as divorce went against the church teachings and Nephew Charles wasn't exactly someone the church wanted to piss off.

Well, time and patience weren't exactly Henry's strength as he demanded the Church to take the decision ASAP. Pressured by Henry's thugs Campeggio and his ilk decided to shift matters out of London and into the pope's court which infuriated Henry further. He decided to get back control, by leaving the church, marry Anne Boleyn and create a religion of his own. It turned out that Anne Boleyn couldn't produce a male heir either and was executed. In total Henry had 6 wives, 2 of which ended up beheaded and 1 who lived in misery for all her life. His dynasty died 1 generation after as his son Edward died as a young man, Mary died with what is thought to be cancer and Elizabeth was too traumatised to get married and rescind power to yet another male.

All English were effected by this madness. The Catholics suffered under Henry, Edward and Elizabeth while the Protestants suffered under Mary, whom, like her mother was catholic. There was also a crusade against England which was a failure, which lead to a counter crusade by the English on the Spanish which also failed
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Don't see the connection but the serfs didn't vote in a referendum.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Don't see the connection but the serfs didn't vote in a referendum.
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I see plenty of connections.

- Both HT and the UK started hating the very things they previously acted as champions for. Henry was in favour of Catherine + the church. The UK were a big fan of FOM, the enlargement of the EU and the single market.
- they both expected the rules to become different for them then for the rest (divorce/end of FOM despite being part of the EU) out of pure selfish reasons.
- they both refused the EU/church the time needed to come out with a decent solution to their new issues
- they both left the group, thinking they will end up better when in reality they ended worse
- the one's suffering were the commoners

Regarding selfs, I do recall then Lord Rees Mogg has quite a huge fan base despite speaking gibberish most of the time
 
devilish said:
I see plenty of connections.

- Both HT and the UK started hating the very things they previously acted as champions for
- they both expected the rules to be different for them then for the rest (divorce/end of FOM despite being part of the EU)
- they both gave the EU/church the time needed to come out with a decent solution
- they both left the group, thinking they will end up better when in reality they ended worse
- the one's suffering were the commoners

Regarding selfs, I do recall then Lord Rees Mogg has quite a huge fan base despite speaking gibberish most of the time
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What I mean is that Henry VIII personally wanted a divorce for singularly personal reasons and the people had no say in the matter whatsoever and anyone who crossed Henry VIII was severely dealt with.
The similarity could be that May has a singular vision of Brexit and aims to enact it at any cost.
 
villain said:
The thought popped in my head that the British public haven't dealt with the collapse of the British Empire.
I think that's a conversation to be had another day,
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It's really not a conversation for another day. Its central to brexit. I've heard a lot of the older generation refer to the ignominy of moving from a colonial master to an EU state.
We need to discuss the impact of our illusions of grandeur in this country.
 
Adisa said:
It's really not a conversation for another day. Its central to brexit. I've heard a lot of the older generation refer to the ignominy of moving from a colonial master to an EU state.
We need to discuss the impact of our illusions of grandeur in this country.
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I honestly can't fathom even the remotest understanding of why anyone in this country feels a sense of pride in it. I mean i don't expect shame either i just don't get why anyone cares beyond historical interest.
 
Smores said:
I honestly can't fathom even the remotest understanding of why anyone in this country feels a sense of pride in it. I mean i don't expect shame either i just don't get why anyone cares beyond historical interest.
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I think most have no idea of the histroy of the British Empire other than some empty culture signifiers.
 
Adisa said:
It's really not a conversation for another day. Its central to brexit. I've heard a lot of the older generation refer to the ignominy of moving from a colonial master to an EU state.
We need to discuss the impact of our illusions of grandeur in this country.
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Very true - even beyond disillusion I don't actually think a lot of the British public understand the effects of colonialism.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
What I mean is that Henry VIII personally wanted a divorce for singularly personal reasons and the people had no say in the matter whatsoever and anyone who crossed Henry VIII was severely dealt with.
The similarity could be that May has a singular vision of Brexit and aims to enact it at any cost.
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I am not saying that its 100% exact. All I said is that there are plenty of similarities between the two circumstances. Actually my argument was that this mentality of asking for different rules merely because they are English is older then the British empire.
 
Smores said:
I honestly can't fathom even the remotest understanding of why anyone in this country feels a sense of pride in it. I mean i don't expect shame either i just don't get why anyone cares beyond historical interest.
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The same reason the Turkish are proud of their Ottoman past or Russians of Tsarist and Soviet Russia. "My country was once a conqueror, that makes me and my people special". It's an easy instigator of nationalism. People aren't bothered about the details.
 
what is the point of this vote now? I see no upside for her other than the fact she can say she tried. I reckon she'll lose it and quit.
 
The size of the defeat will inevitably be smaller than what is speculated.
For a lot of Tories, as much as they hate the deal, the fear of no brexit is far bigger.
 
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