Nah, I saw a well spoken woman on telly arguing that leaving the EU will turn us into a socialist paradise, that the EU are terrified of this and therefore will give us a great deal if only Jez can be the one negotiating. Made perfect sense.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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It's as close to reality as befriending the likes of Jo Johnson, Anna Soubry, Vince Cable and Chris Leslie whilst pretending to be concerned about vulnerable people and cuts targeted at them after Brexit.
Bring back the glory days where the only risks to vulnerable people via cuts targeted at them were...
...the likes of Jo Johnson, Anna Soubry, Vince Cable and Chris Leslie.
So when our troops were on the beaches at Dunkirk, poverty should have been the priority in Parliament? The fact that the Nazis could follow through and invade and probably wipe out half the poor would be secondary?
What we have here is a national crisis that will cause untold damage if it is not resolved. Nobody is saying that other issues are not important only that those issues will become more acute if this bloody issue isn't sorted.
Yeah, if there's one thing coverage of any PMQs and the replies to any social media post Corbyn has put out in the last 2 years (including him recently wishing Harry Leslie Smith well in his recovery in hospital) says it's that 'Nobody is saying that other issues are not important'
For all the stuff written about Leave being funded by Putin, I think people should look into whether People's Vote is being funded and run by people who want to leave the EU - you know, aside from befriending Tories who've spent years voting against the UK's membership of the EU. Look at the strategy:
1. Mass marches through London deserve to be heard and should certainly alter the course of British politics. Who is doing their PR for them, in any medium that'll have them? Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell. Genius!
2. Young people don't like Brexit and it's their future any Brexit is putting in jeopardy. Who else was doing their PR for them, until Facebook remembered how little his principles cost? Nick Clegg. What a shrewd move.
3. Brexit is going to make the average person poorer and will almost certainly lead to more cuts. Who shall we get to spread this message? Anti-austerity groups? People who work in food banks? No, get me some of the most vocal and consistent supporters of the last decade of austerity you can find and lets cheer them like it's fecking Live Aid all over again.
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May, however delude, is at least trying to get this thing sorted. Corbyn is nothing more than a cynical opportunist.
Yeah. As Prime Minister, I can't believe how little to do with the negotiations Corbyn is having.
As leader of the opposition, if he opposes May’s deal he should set out a credible alternative. I have yet to hear it, including in his response to May today.
He can't unless he has access to the EU commission to negotiate an alternative.
Have you actually bothered looking?
I like how much Corbyn annoys people in this thread.
And how rarely his most ardent supporters actually defend his position on Brexit without strawmanning.
Especially when he's so irrelevant to the whole thing.
The EU 27 have not exactly been opaque throughout this process in setting out their key positions, i.e. the four freedoms are indivisible and non-membership cannot be as beneficial as continuing membership. Are you seriously suggesting Corbyn could get a materially better deal from the EU?
The fact that things were shit for a lot of people doesn't mean they won't get a lot, lot worse if Brexit isn't sorted out properly. A lot of the criticism re this issue concerning Corbyn as often been over the top and exaggerated (as coverage of him often is) but it's undeniable he's not really presented any workable strategy thus far to something that's by far the biggest issue facing the country. And the response that he isn't in government doesn't work either - the whole point of opposition is to highlight the flaws of the government and present actual, workable solution to the things the government are doing wrong.
Yep he's going to get exactly the same benefits as the Single Market and Customs Union without actually being in them. Sounds very possible if you're an idiot.
Out of date I'm afraid. He might have been a better negotiator than May, or he might not, but in any event negotiations are over. He has a choice of backing the deal or no deal, unless he u-turns completely and proposes we ask the EU if we can remain, which he won't. The EU say they will negotiate no further, and I believe them.
Corbyn is relevant because he's leader of the Labour party, and given the party splits then how his members vote will determine whether we leave with the deal or without a deal. I'd say that's relevant.
There's absolutely nothing new here, Labour will not allow itself to be painted as the blockers of Brexit.
After the commons vote perhaps because then it's not on them which is why they've refused to take it off the table.
Exactly what do you think adding it to a televised debate adds? This isn't to influence a public vote and May will just slap the suggestion down and use it as a weapon.
Are people unaware of the idea so that it needs Corbyn to advertise it? Do you think May will suddenly change her mind? Enlighten me
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He may be leader of the Labour Party , not convinced he's leader of the opposition. If it goes to a free vote or Labour MPs rebel against him he won't be.
Er....there's nothing to defend sadly, I like anyone else think Labour Brexit is rubbish but I would the criticism of Labour far more seriously if it didn't come from people who have in the past couple of years got everything wrong politically. Just because Corbyn isn't playing the magical 4d chess some have in their heads doesn't mean what he or labour are doing is wrong.
them, they are the simpletons, and the document proves it. I can see why Davis and Raab resigned.Not who the simpleton is here, me or you...
Has it actually been released as to what this agreed deal entails?
Like a bullet-pointed, by the numbers list of everything involved with the deal?
If so could someone post a link to it?
Like a bullet-pointed, by the numbers list of everything involved with the deal?
If so could someone post a link to it?
He could get a different deal. The Tories had their priorities on what they wanted to give the EU the deal it wanted. Labour would have different priorities. The EU has conceded on some of the Tory priorities to get the deal they wanted while none of the Labour priorities have been even aired let alone agreed to. If May needed Labour to get this deal through parliament then she should have invited them to the negotiating table so they could get some of the things they wanted in the agreement.
If the Tories negotiate an agreement solely on their priorities and with only their input then it is up to them to get it through parliament.
The fact that other parties have been shit politically isn't - again - an excuse for Corbyn to be so himself on the issue. He's perfectly capable of putting forward a solid argument about why leaving the single market and customs union is a bad idea politically, in the same way he's often passionately argued for other issues that are key to the future of the country. And the arguments about it not being popular to do so again fall flat when Corbyn's entire mantra has been to advocate for his own left-wing principles in spite of the fact they had him polling poorly until just before last year's election. And again, I know the EU isn't particularly left-wing, but continuing cooperation with it is pretty much the only viable option unless you're advocating a hard border with Northern Ireland and the chaos that a hard Brexit brings. Something which Corbyn's earlier commitment to leaving the single market was basically arguing in favour of, even if the party as a whole were remarkably unclear on that publicly.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/26/how-will-your-mp-vote-on-theresa-mays-brexit-deal
If MPs vote as suggested in this article and Labour MPs vote as Corbyn wants them to, then Corbyn's going to get the blame for the no deal catastrophe. Cunning plan.
If MPs vote as suggested in this article and Labour MPs vote as Corbyn wants them to, then Corbyn's going to get the blame for the no deal catastrophe. Cunning plan.
Corbyn's never detailed what they are though. All we've had from him is his same benefits, but out of SM/CU fantasy or fluff like 'a Brexit that works for everyone'.
Corbyn was(And still is)unpopular but the platform he ran on wasn't at all, most of his left wing principles are very popular. There's isn't to my mind some ethical duty Corbyn has to do because in 2015 he talked about - kinder, honest politics(Or whatever the slogan was). I hate to break it to people but this politics , if you want to change his or the party mind then you'll have to 1)Hurt them in polling 2)Join the Labour Party and change it from the inside.
Fair judgement in one sense, but if it doesn't get through parliament then a no deal hard brexit it will be. I get you think he could renegotiate, but first he would have to win a vote of no confidence, then win a general election, then even harder persuade the EU to completely change their mind and negotiate again, all this while leaving the EU in March is already written into both EU and UK law. Times have moved on, Barnier's tick tock hasn't gone away, renegotiation isn't going to happen.
What are the Tory benefits that May fought so hard for?
She got what she was given.
She got what she was given.
Shame Jez wants to move the goalposts now it’s got some traction.
If he had been invited to the table he would have had to negotiate those priorities or declined to participate which he couldn't have done.
It's all what ifs though. No way Labour would've invited the Tories along if the boot was on the other foot.
This was certainly something that in theory would've been best negotiated by a cross-party body, but even then, look at the divides in Lab and Con. Whole thing was impossible.
The EU doesn't want a hard Brexit anymore than we do. If this is voted down, which I think it will be then they will wait and see what the options are. Any deal is going to be 90% what this deal is. Labour may get to add somethings they want to get it through parliament though.
It's interesting that she thinks the public deserve to hear what she has to say but don't deserve a vote afterwards
If they didn't have the votes then they would have to if they wanted to get it through parliament.
The thing about a cross party comity is that if it fails all parties fail. There would be no political gain in seeing it fail.
Ah yeah, that would be messy tbf.
70%+ of his party are already in favour of another vote and he’s just ignoring their wishes.
So, I see Brexit playing out like this;
1) Commons vote on May's plan
2) Is rejected
3) Amendments added to the text from every corner, remain, leave, lib dem, labour, SNP, hard, soft, boiled
4) Most of those are rejected. Except a hard amendment which allows the transition and backstop to remain except a hard brexit following that (Chequers is dead).
And that's it. Brexit passes with the promise of a hard brexit in 2+ years time
1) Commons vote on May's plan
2) Is rejected
3) Amendments added to the text from every corner, remain, leave, lib dem, labour, SNP, hard, soft, boiled
4) Most of those are rejected. Except a hard amendment which allows the transition and backstop to remain except a hard brexit following that (Chequers is dead).
And that's it. Brexit passes with the promise of a hard brexit in 2+ years time
Good. The UK doesn't want chlorinated chicken and privatized healthcare.