Not sure where you heard that but if that did come up in the future thats for the people of Gibraltar to decide. They may actually want co-sovereignty at some point.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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Not sure where you heard that but if that did come up in the future thats for the people of Gibraltar to decide. They may actually want co-sovereignty at some point.
Yeah, totally nutty to want to protect British territory at all costs. You know, the same policy we applied with the Falkland Islands.
Meekly surrendering our grip on Gibraltar is totally unacceptable. 98% of the population when last polled want to remain a U.K territory.
Sure, if the people suddenly have an unprecedented shift then it’s their choice.
As of now though, they are very much against co-sovereignty and by all accounts not at all happy with Spain’s actions. We should back them all the way.
I’m not a brexiteer.
These people no longer wanted to be part of the British Empire. Why are people comparing places like this to one where the attitude is totally different?
The only comparable place is the Falklands, which we went to war 8,000 miles away to protect, rightly. Our position was no negotiation because the rights of British citizens were being threatened.
I imagine Argentina felt much the same regarding our ‘American owners’ (who advised negotiation), and Gibraltar so happens to be much closer and more important to the U.Ks interests.
The whole point is we should not be accepting negotiations with Spain on Gibraltar unless the people there change their current position. Right now they are adamantly opposed to any Spanish interference and we should protect that position at all costs. These are British citizens and have a right to British protection.
Give an inch and they will take a mile.
I'm going on a march, cos I want Britain to be about British...
It is British colonial territory. Like Malvinas, which were illegally occupied by pirates. Logically they vote in favor of staying in Uk because they have been there for 300 years. It would be surreal if they voted otherwise.
I was very "Gibraltar español" until I was there.
In any case, from what I understand, UK entered the EU before Spain, and established EU-Gibraltar relations, establishing their exceptional circumstances which we could not object to as we entered later
If you leave the association is normal to return to the original situation. Dealing between the two countries.
Send to the Navy and all that you said is incredibly exaggerated and does not correspond to the current climate in the area.
In any case the priority of Spain is to keep its 20 million British tourists, not to raise the tension with Gibraltar.
If only...You were not so brave with Hong Kong
It’s been in British hands for hundreds of years and the will of the people living there (just as with the Falklands) is the priority. As for the ‘illegally occupied’ Falkland Islands .. nope, Argentina has very weak claims and always has done.
I understand the need to re-establish previous arrangements if we are to leave the EU, the point is these arrangements should leave no room for debate on future sovereignty. May seems to be reasserting that we will protect Gibraltar’s interests, but I struggle to have faith in her.
I never said send in the navy now .. I responded to a suggestion Spain could merely starve Gibraltar (which would be an act of war) by pointing out we have one of the worlds most powerful navies at our disposal. Which could be easily used to keep it supplied.
My suggestion has never been go to war with Spain, but that it should be made clear we are prepared to do so if Gibraltar’s sovereignty is questioned, just as we did with the Falklands. I hope zero room for debate is left and we take the Thatcher approach of no negotiation when it comes to the rights of British citizens.
I’d much prefer that but if we must go down the Brexit route then the lives of all British citizens must be totally safeguarded .. Be it those in Gibraltar or the Falklands. I don’t trust spineless May to do so. Especially when the Spanish PM is crowing about how this opens up future talks on sovereignty.
Of course remaining in the EU would be the easiest way to solve all this, but let’s face it that isn’t going to happen.
Europe on a war footing? Putin would be only delighted.
Nobody is on a war footing. Spain couldn’t fight a war against the U.K in a million years, they would never actually do anything to risk conflict.
It’s just a case of asserting that there will be zero question about Gibraltar’s sovereignty, and showing that the armed forces are prepared to defend it if necessary.
We can’t afford to look weak or make little concessions. Before you know it Argentina will start piping up again.
... So, how would armed forces "flexing" not be a war footing?
Spain: "It's ok folks, they're only messing. There's absolutely no need for us to flex in a similar way and we definitely won't do that. Nope. No way. No responding in kind here. It's not like there's any historical precedent of armed conflict between our nations or anything".
It's Yoel Romero.
The flex thing was a joke .. I should probably have made it clearer tbf. Although, moving a couple of subs in to the area wouldn’t be a war footing, merely a bolstering of defences.
There hasn’t been armed conflict between Spain/U.K for a very long time. Spain hasn’t had the ability to flex against any major European nation for centuries. What exactly can they do?
The motto of our navy is ‘If you want peace, prepare for war’. I’m just saying we should be ready for anything.
I’m with @SquishyMcSquish
If Gibraltar overwhelmingly want to remain a British territory, we have a duty to protect them and they have a right to that protection. He isn’t saying we need to start world war three, but at the same time you can’t roll over and have you belly tickled every time someone wants something off you. I don’t see what’s controversial about that.
If Gibraltar overwhelmingly want to remain a British territory, we have a duty to protect them and they have a right to that protection. He isn’t saying we need to start world war three, but at the same time you can’t roll over and have you belly tickled every time someone wants something off you. I don’t see what’s controversial about that.
I’m pretty sure most posters in here would absolutely have surrendered the Falklands without a shot fired.
Our position should be pretty clear. There is no question of ever discussing sovereignty unless the people of Gibraltar ever have a radical change of heart. Any talk of it before that is an insult to the U.K and the wishes of British citizens.
If Spain can’t accept that, then yes it should be made perfectly clear we are prepared to use military force to defend Gibraltar. It’s not an unreasonable position at all.
I definitely would have, since I'm Irish.
Alright - either would have surrendered the Falklands, or would have sided with Argentina in the debate.
Basically, it’s nutty if you think the U.K should firmly protect its citizens and offer no discussion on the matter, but not if you call Brits pirates and illegal occupiers (straight out of Argentina’s propaganda list).
I'd be surrendering nothing because they weren't mine?
Spain have seen an opportunity to negotiate something they've been eyeing up for years and your government has folded. Advantage them, I reckon.
I know .. when I made that comment I was referring to the Brits in the thread (although tbf I imagine there are very few).
I agree totally. We have a spineless government who I do not trust to not make further concessions.
Scoxit.
Breaking: May gives Britain away as a Christmas present, in order to keep her job.
Would not at all blame Scotland if they voted to leave now. It’s a huge shame (from my perspective) but the situation we’ve put them in is that there is less and less incentive to remain.
This country is in a real mess. Praying a heroic leadership figure emerges from nowhere but with the state of British politics I highly doubt it. Country could do with somebody with the presence of a Churchill to rally around right now.
This country is in a real mess. Praying a heroic leadership figure emerges from nowhere but with the state of British politics I highly doubt it. Country could do with somebody with the presence of a Churchill to rally around right now.
A moment of insight
Anyway...
#indyref2
They should campaign for a second indy referendum but ask the whole of the UK
Do you want to keep subsidising Scotland?
Yes put up with them
No... Boot them out... Rebuild the wall and make them pay
Independence almost guaranteed for Scotland... And a long way to skewing the Westminster maths very much in favour of the conservatives.
Perhaps she could get her deal on brexit through on the backs of the snp in a trade of for indy ref2 ?
A moment of insight
Anyway...
#indyref2
It's a shame the UK is being so badly governed that it may result in the break up of the UK. Not sure there's that much of an economic benefit to Scotland departing though.
On a lighter note, has anyone already posted this? Only came across it this morning and nearly had a heart-attack laughing. Jeremy Cornflake and No Breakfast.
Burgon rips off his mask to reveal he was Gove all along.
Isn't that the point though, right now they don't want it and no one is suggesting it. If at some point in the future if for whatever reasons Spain does suggest it then leave it to the people of Gibraltar to decide its possible by then there will be a shift of opinion. I get what you're saying mate but there's no need to get worked up and talk about going to war with an ally over a situation that hasn't yet and may never happen.
At least we’d be free to make our own mistakes instead of constantly being outvoted by a country with ten times our population. Win or lose, it would be because of us and not anyone else. Happy to be a partner with England, but we aren’t partners. Westminster decides and that’s pretty much that.
If scotland departed the UK, what would be the border situation and would i, being born in England, be able to get a scottish passport without having scottish blood?
"The age of the experts is over..."
Translation : "...unless they happen to endorse our amateurishness and expediency. "
Translation : "...unless they happen to endorse our amateurishness and expediency. "
Is there a simpletons guide to the pros and cons of the deal? Still can't find anything that breaks everything down without the waffle of one sided groups personal interests getting involved
No one can answer these questions because they would have to be defined by Scotland as an independent country.
True. It's interesting that for the 2014 independence referendum they chose residence as the qualification for voting rather than ancestry. People with Scottish parents, born in Scotland and raised in Scotland, but who lived outside Scotland couldn't vote. It would be mildly amusing if the likes of Sean Connery, long-time supporter and financer of the Scottish Independence movement was denied a Scottish passport. Personally I'd want them to take the birthplace of parents and grandparents into account, like football, and I'd be in.
It won't - but in that case we need to accept that we ourselves are putting Gibraltar at an inherent disadvantage, considering the vast majority of Gibraltar voted to remain. Saying we need to safeguard them and talking about how many of them want to remain as part of the UK comes across as inherently silly when we're quite literally in the process of making a major decision that none of them really want.
He'd probably get a passport even if he can't get a vote but Connery can go feck himself - despite his acting chops a fairly shite person, and a tax dodger as well. An immigrant living and working in Scotland and paying their fair way is far more deserving of a vote than he is.
If the EU have signed off this deal so easily surely that suggests that it’s in their favour