Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Cheesy]

This I'm afraid is a fantasy.

Aye. Ultimately a no deal Brexit would be disastrous - and the only other alternative basically involves us retaining all our current arrangements with the EU, but just with no actual voice.

If you want to pursue left-wing policies then the best way to do that within the EU is to coalesce with other left-wing parties in EU member states and try to shift it in a more left-wing direction in general. Might not be easy, but the left-wing arguments against the EU tend not to work anymore because their entire philosophy is based on an outlook that's decades out-of-date.

 

[Mozza]

So the big sales pitch for May's deal is the ending of freedom of movement. Brexit isn't about taking back control, since we are going to follow the rules anyway, it's not about sovereignty, we'll abandon that with every subsequent trade deal, it's not about fecking fish. There's no pretending anymore, this vote was a victory for racists

 

[Suedesi]

So, what's the holdup with Brexit? Second thoughts on leaving or more complicated than that?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Great tweet.

 

[sun_tzu]

So, what's the holdup with Brexit? Second thoughts on leaving or more complicated than that?

Sadly there is no hold up... Deal or no deal we leave on 29th march as it stands
EU will Probably pass the deal this weekend
UK parliment will vote on it around 10th December... Currently looks unlikely to pass
From there it's all guesswork

 

[Fully Fledged]

My own memory is that Cameron offering a full-on coalition with Liberal cabinet members came as a huge surprise to everyone. If Clegg knew Brown was only discussing a 'pact', and a feeble one at that, then when Cameron let him know he was willing to offer a genuine coalition it was game over. Shame, though.

It was.

 

[Smores]

A Labour supporter just described Labour's position as 'constructive ambiguity'. Says it all. Although I'm sure it's nuanced. Very nuanced.

I think I'd describe it as obstructive cooperation. I find it comparable to some life experiences where I've been out voted on something known their alternative was a bad idea and then insisted its carried out through to disaster so i can say i told you so

Labours whole position til now has been irrelevant tbf, it's the direction they take in the coming weeks and months that count as now they can actually influence proceedings.

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Frosty]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-way-over-gibraltar-after-spains-veto-threat

Taking back control now means potentially conceding sovereignty over British Overseas Territories.

Regardless of what you think about who should own Gibraltar, this is surely another wonderful example of how the EU will extract concession after concession from the UK for the price of Brexit.

 

[utdalltheway]

Gibraltar voted remain and may get their wish after all, but not the way they wanted it.

 

[sun_tzu]

Gibraltar voted remain and may get their wish after all, but not the way they wanted it.

Swapsies with catalonia

 

[Tarrou]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46330380

So it looks like the EU will approve May's deal then, but not sure what good that will do given it will be shot down in parliament.

 

[carvajal]

The version that I have read is that during the negotiation it has been clearly established that Gibraltar's relations with the EU would depend on a negotiation with Spain.
However, that part of the draft, had disappeared, apparently by order of May, which was considered a malicious move.
Sánchez says he has secured a written guarantee. The "right wing" press is not so sure.
The negotiations in any case will not talk about co-sovereignty (although the demand will always be there).
From what I have read it would be based on three questions:
- price of tobacco to stop smuggling
-Management of waste to the bay
-Taxation of Gibraltarians living in Spain

 

[4bars]

Swapsies with catalonia

No thanks, you betrayed us before. Funnily breaking an alliance that ended the spanish civil war in 1714 and with the Utrecht treaty in 1713 that got you Gibraltar and Spain fuecking over Catalonia forever. So, no trusty trusty brittish

And frankly, Spanish governments are so incompetent that at least our culture survived till the XXI century in decent shape, not like scottish, welsh and irish.

 

[Adisa]

Sovereignty hey said.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Can't believe we have gone from 'zero negotiation' policy with the Falklands to bowing to fecking Spain over Gibraltar. May has a fraction of Thatcher's balls.

It is British land. No negotiation, unless you want to go through the British armed forces first. This meek surrender is a betrayal which should not be tolerated.

 

[Silva]

hell yeah, what kind of wimp ass government negotiates in a negotiation

 

[Klopper76]

The only thing May wants from this whole shambles is an end to freedom of movement.

She’s always been xenophobic and is using Brexit to get her way.

 

[Pexbo]

The only thing May wants from this whole shambles is an end to freedom of movement.

She’s always been xenophobic and is using Brexit to get her way.

Literally the only thing May wants at the end of this whole shambles is to still be Prime Minister.

 

[cyberman]

The version that I have read is that during the negotiation it has been clearly established that Gibraltar's relations with the EU would depend on a negotiation with Spain.
However, that part of the draft, had disappeared, apparently by order of May, which was considered a malicious move.
Sánchez says he has secured a written guarantee. The "right wing" press is not so sure.
The negotiations in any case will not talk about co-sovereignty (although the demand will always be there).
From what I have read it would be based on three questions:
- price of tobacco to stop smuggling
-Management of waste to the bay
-Taxation of Gibraltarians living in Spain

If its anything like the agreement for the Irish backstop, you should be prepared for Britain to keep trying to renegotiate the agreement or even have politicians advise May to ignore the agreement anyway.

 

[utdalltheway]

It is British land. No negotiation, unless you want to go through the British armed forces first.

Though it seems mad that it should remain British seeing the geographical location, the people there want to remain (with the UK) so good luck to them.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

hell yeah, what kind of wimp ass government negotiates in a negotiation

You don't give an inch in these kinds of situations. Spain has sneakily entered in at the last minute and tried to strong arm us. We now appear weak by giving in and I guarantee further concessions down the line.

The response should have been simple: Gibraltar is British, attempt to take it by force or not at all. British citizens live there, just like on the Falklands the government has the same duty to protect their wishes as they do with citizens living in Britain.

There is no negotiation to be had here. It is British, Spain should have no say in it. Right now Thatcher would be giving Spain the middle finger, just like we did to Argentina.

 

[carvajal]

If its anything like the agreement for the Irish backstop, you should be prepared for Britain to keep trying to renegotiate the agreement or even have politicians advise May to ignore the agreement anyway.

Yes I imagine. This struggle will be eternal. In any case, it is a victory for Spanish diplomacy. The fact that they have read the draft and realized they had to protest is enough.
The position of Spain today is purely political. Nobody is interested in closing the gate, which would be the deterrent measure in case of diplomatic conflict.
That region is really deprived (32% unemployment in La Linea) and can´t afford to stop the flow of people at the border.

 

[Silva]

You don't give an inch in these kinds of situations. Spain has sneakily entered in at the last minute and tried to strong arm us. We now appear weak by giving in and I guarantee further concessions down the line.

The response should have been simple: Gibraltar is British, attempt to take it by force or not at all. British citizens live there, just like on the Falklands the government has the same duty to protect their wishes as they do with citizens living in Britain.

There is no negotiation to be had here. It is British, Spain should have no say in it. Right now Thatcher would be giving Spain the middle finger, just like we did to Argentina.

All it does it put in writing how Gibraltar is already handled, through British-Spanish bilateral agreement.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

All it does it put in writing how Gibraltar is already handled, through British-Spanish bilateral agreement.

Spain is claiming it opens up discussions for co-sovereignty in the future, which shouldn't be in the table and is an insult to the U.K, the response to which should be to shove a few nuclear powered subs up Spain's behind.


(I'm kidding. But any talk of co-sovereignty should be completely dismissed.)

 

[Silva]

if Britain starts waving it's little dick about the deal is going to fall through and the people of gibraltar will wind up voting to join Spain because that's where they get their food from

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

if Britain starts waving it's little dick about the deal is going to fall through and the people of gibraltar will wind up voting to join Spain because that's where they get their food from

We have this thing called the Royal Navy which would be perfectly capable of aiding supply to Gibraltar indefinitely. Any attempt to starve Gibraltar would be an act of war, a war which Spain would be completely incapable of waging against a power like the U.K. They know this and wouldn't dare try it.

You also underestimate the will of the people on Gibraltar. The Falklanders didn't crumble when Argentina invaded, these people identify with Britain and will fiercely defend that status.

 

[carvajal]

Spain is claiming it opens up discussions for co-sovereignty in the future, which shouldn't be in the table and is an insult to the U.K, the response to which should be to shove a few nuclear powered subs up Spain's behind.


(I'm kidding. But any talk of co-sovereignty should be completely dismissed.)

You were not so brave with Hong Kong

 

[Ubik]

We have this thing called the Royal Navy which would be perfectly capable of aiding supply to Gibraltar indefinitely. Any attempt to starve Gibraltar would be an act of war, a war which Spain would be completely incapable of waging against a power like the U.K. They know this and wouldn't dare try it.

You also underestimate the will of the people on Gibraltar. The Falklanders didn't crumble when Argentina invaded, these people identify with Britain and will fiercely defend that status.

It's war!

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

You were not so brave with Hong Kong

You aren't China .. and we ceded that as per the lease agreement.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

It's war!

Nah, zero chance Spain would ever actually risk conflict, they could do nothing.

Just show that we are prepared to go that far to protect British territory, up military activity in the area as a show of force. Just a little flex.

and totally arm and supply some Catalonian rebels, that always works really well.

 

[Eboue]

We have this thing called the Royal Navy which would be perfectly capable of aiding supply to Gibraltar indefinitely. Any attempt to starve Gibraltar would be an act of war, a war which Spain would be completely incapable of waging against a power like the U.K. They know this and wouldn't dare try it.

You also underestimate the will of the people on Gibraltar. The Falklanders didn't crumble when Argentina invaded, these people identify with Britain and will fiercely defend that status.

jesus christ

 

[carvajal]

Nah, zero chance Spain would ever actually risk conflict, they could do nothing.

Just show that we are prepared to go that far to protect British territory, up military activity in the area as a show of force. Just a little flex.

and totally arm and supply some Catalonian rebels, that always works really well.

This seems to be taken from the comments of the Daily Mail. Before all that there would have to be a conflict of sovereignty (or even co sovereignty), I do not know where you have read that has been raised in a more taxative way. Besides, you would not do anything without the permission of your American owner

 

[FlawlessThaw]

It's war!

Think it was Cameron who said Brexit could lead to World War 3. @SquishyMcSquish just provided a plausible way for it to happen.

 

[Rajma]

We have this thing called the Royal Navy which would be perfectly capable of aiding supply to Gibraltar indefinitely. Any attempt to starve Gibraltar would be an act of war, a war which Spain would be completely incapable of waging against a power like the U.K. They know this and wouldn't dare try it.

You also underestimate the will of the people on Gibraltar. The Falklanders didn't crumble when Argentina invaded, these people identify with Britain and will fiercely defend that status.

You’re freaking nut job.

 

[The Firestarter]

This thread took a bizarre turn.

 

[Abizzz]

We have this thing called the Royal Navy which would be perfectly capable of aiding supply to Gibraltar indefinitely. Any attempt to starve Gibraltar would be an act of war, a war which Spain would be completely incapable of waging against a power like the U.K. They know this and wouldn't dare try it.

You also underestimate the will of the people on Gibraltar. The Falklanders didn't crumble when Argentina invaded, these people identify with Britain and will fiercely defend that status.

Brexiteers loosing their head much?

You aren't China .. and we ceded that as per the lease agreement.

How about:
India, Australia, Egypt, South Africa, Nigeria, Cameroon, Aden, Oman, Cyprus, Kuwait, New Guinea, New Zealand or Jamaica?

 

[Cheesy]

We have this thing called the Royal Navy which would be perfectly capable of aiding supply to Gibraltar indefinitely. Any attempt to starve Gibraltar would be an act of war, a war which Spain would be completely incapable of waging against a power like the U.K. They know this and wouldn't dare try it.

You also underestimate the will of the people on Gibraltar. The Falklanders didn't crumble when Argentina invaded, these people identify with Britain and will fiercely defend that status.

If keeping hold of Gibraltar is so important then there's an approach we could take which would help maintain the status quo - remaining within the EU.

 

[thebelfastboy]

If keeping hold of Gibraltar is so important then there's an approach we could take which would help maintain the status quo - remaining within the EU.

This sounds like madness tbh, maybe better sending the troops back into Belfast and Derry?

 

[Cheesy]

This sounds like madness tbh, maybe better sending the troops back into Belfast and Derry?

Pfftt, show some ambition. A true Brit would hit the Irish by surprise and go straight for Dublin!