You know that, I know that, seemingly Theresa May doesn't know that.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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You know that, I know that, seemingly Theresa May doesn't know that.
Barnier says UK and EU not close to reaching Brexit agreement
Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, told the Belgian broadcaster RTBF this morning that the UK and the EU were not close to a deal. He said:
For now, we are still negotiating and I am not, as I am speaking to you this morning, able to tell you that we are close to reaching an agreement.
Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, told the Belgian broadcaster RTBF this morning that the UK and the EU were not close to a deal. He said:
For now, we are still negotiating and I am not, as I am speaking to you this morning, able to tell you that we are close to reaching an agreement.
Yeah annoyingly Farage is right that the reason for the drop in anti immigration feeling(And why it's drop down the list of importance for voters)is because people think Britain has kicked out all the foreigners.
I'm still of the mind that the UK government could put a border up in NL and it wouldn't effect party polling. People really don't care(Some actually take pride in knowing feck all about the process)
Leaving the CU and SM without putting up a border in Ireland is impossible so either the Leave voters were ignorant of that fact or they don't care. Both are equally reprehensible.
The Spectator’s James Forsyth has written a very good blog with new information about what happened at cabinet. Do read the whole thing here, but here’s an excerpt.
Penny Mordaunt argued that Brexit was like a plane journey and that people wanted to hear from the pilot at the beginning and the end of the journey and they got worried if they heard from the pilot mid-flight to say that they weren’t going to land when they were expected to. To which, David Mundell— the Scottish secretary — shot back that the passengers would be equally alarmed if they heard that the pilot couldn’t land the plane. To which, Michael Gove — a famously nervous flier — remarked that he always found a gin and tonic helped if that happened. I suspect that all the cabinet might be in need of a drink before the week is out.
So the UK will become alcoholics to shut out the pain.
Penny Mordaunt argued that Brexit was like a plane journey and that people wanted to hear from the pilot at the beginning and the end of the journey and they got worried if they heard from the pilot mid-flight to say that they weren’t going to land when they were expected to. To which, David Mundell— the Scottish secretary — shot back that the passengers would be equally alarmed if they heard that the pilot couldn’t land the plane. To which, Michael Gove — a famously nervous flier — remarked that he always found a gin and tonic helped if that happened. I suspect that all the cabinet might be in need of a drink before the week is out.
So the UK will become alcoholics to shut out the pain.
Who knows but considering how little NL border was given I image most didn't know and now they do they don't care.
GET ON WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not as easy as just giving it back before brexit. First there would have to be public consultations and referendums, to convince the people on both sides of the border that if they want what is a romantic notion to become reality, they will have to pay for it economically. Bigly. A recent study by Trinity college shows that the cost required per year to take on the North would be 11bn. Ireland don’t have that and the UK won’t want to fund it without it being part of the UK.
That’s before we get into how to untangle the civil service, healthcare, policing etc.
There would need to be a huge handover period, an expensive one. Would every ROI resident want to pay an additional 10% or more tax per month to fund it? I doubt it
I actually think it would be like Brexit in that the people would vote for it and then afterwards the “oh shit what have we done?” realization would kick in
It would be an absolute shit show. Though I guess it is possible.
Anything’s possible if someone is willing to pay for it. That’s the question for me.
Ignoring the obvious elephant in the room (inevitable violence)
Aye. It's very easy to imagine people voting for a UI only to then ask what exactly a UI means. It's also easy to imagine the UI we end up with looking very different to the vague, romantic ideal people might have in mind as they cast their votes.
"Looks like we are heading for no deal" from DUP chief whip.
Probably posturing from the DUP but still..
https://mobile.twitter.com/J_Donaldson_MP/status/1059748210271494144?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
Dont know how to embed tweets..
Probably posturing from the DUP but still..
https://mobile.twitter.com/J_Donaldson_MP/status/1059748210271494144?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
Dont know how to embed tweets..
I was thinking more about if Brexit caused the breakdown of the GFA, a hard border and a return to sectarian violence and then eventually a united Ireland rather than a pre-Brexit thing.
And if events ever pushed things in this direction there are huge political, social and economic hurdles to clear. Possibly insurmountable ones.
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Any chat about this today?
We should pay them in Initiative Q.
I'm seeing so many posts about this on Facebook from friends.You are 100% wrong. Once you treat (or want to treat) someone differently because is from somewhere else, you are xenophobic. That 53% is not neutral to EU, they want to treat them differently because they don't like them or they fear that they will do something to them while others that they are from the same area, they don't mention them and they might do the same (basically competing with them for jobs)
And yeah, basically and fundamental interpretation of really basic data says that 53% are xenophobic against EU immigrants, that is absolute majority, there is no other interpretation. Thanks for agreeing with me
Is your own link mate, is you that you put your fingers in your ears
May as well just stay in the EU, best for everyone.
Well, I live in Canada so...But yeah, I guess it would be better for everyone, but deep inside I like chaos to be unfold for the fun, but the same happened with Trump, and I don't like it
How did you get into Canada? Was it xenophobic of them to impose rules and stipulations for you to enter and live in the country. And is it xenophobic for them to impose one set of rules for you, and another for people who were born in Canada?
Because the EU citizens have to abide by the conditions of FoM otherwise the UK can remove them. The same as citizens from outside the EU, they have to comply by the rules. Now because the rules may be different is not the fault of the EU, they are imposed by the UK.
Typical example of utter ignorance was the woman in that C4 programme called ******* who said that the minimum wage for EU citizens is lower than that of non-EU citizens - well hello, that is because the UK set a higher wage requirement.
The criteria for EU citizens is that they are able to support themselves and are not a burden on the state which should also be the case for non-EU citizens, you can't really do a lot about UK citizens who are burden on the state.
Another clue, the only country in the EU that has "concerns" about FoM is the UK.
At the core it is as in an ideal world shouldn't be borders. But I am not naive
Also, you are wrong in the last part. Now as a resident I have exactly the same rules as a canadian born except voting and in 1 year and half I will be able even to do that
But in essence, is not comparable in the sense that if we consider all Europeans with the same rights, you shouldn't ask for different rules. That is why asking control from other countries of the EU, when had been established that shouldn't be like that, is xenophobic.
As I have been saying, there are several levels of xenophobia. You can even have them with your neighbouring town. I am xenophobic to a certain degree, I am tribal like many other people. The problem is when xenophobia reach high levels of intolerance, and Brexit is in my opinion a result of this
Unless you never agreed with the new rules introduced without your consent and when given a democratic vote you decline to extend those rights as per the question about your instructions which your politicians asked you for, to steer their actions.
Its not that hard to understand it is just most people in this thread want the opposite and they thrash about trying to justify why their view is more important and wiser, better and more modern. The people who disagree about the priorities are racist xenophobic or stupid.
Here you are a guy living in Canada from Spain thinking your view about a country you will never live in, on a continent you decided to leave, owes you something?
It doesn't and your opinion about ideals without borders are not just naïve but dangerous and ill thought out. There will always be borders of authority. those who think that is backward do so because they have never seen how badly run non democratic countries are. That's why we have so many people trying desperately to get in to democratic countries in the first place.
Its not that I agree with Brexit voters about voting leave because I didn't. It's that I agreed to vote and a I feel bound by that vote even though it went against me. Isn't that democracy? Or are we only allowing certain outcomes because our superiors and there is no end to those in this thread who feel they are just that, want every one else they feel are inferior to vote the way they think benefits them.
They might be right but god does the hypocrisy stick in my craw, half of them voted for Cameron but now they want to run away from the consequences.
We should have a peoples vote on the final outcome...
But hang on it took 40 odd years to get a vote on the current state of the EU which does not resemble the EEC we voted to join.
We didn't know what we were voting on...
If we vote to stay in the EU we don't know what that is going to turn out to be either. It not like voting leave is the first thing we ever did without certainty of outcome because we do that every election if we are honest.
You agreed because you agreed on some people that you vote that appoint people that make the rules, that is indirect representation, and you agreed in the referendum when you entered in the EU.
Then, what you say in the first paragraph is absolutely compatible with what I have been saying. You decline to extend those rights for xenophobic reasons. Before when you entered de the EU, you were less, now you are more, that is why you are out. For whatever reasons, maybe the EU citizens gave you good reasons maybe not, now you are more xenophobic, because you fear that they will steal your jobs, cripple your housing, NHS and benefit systems, but you are.
No, here we have a guy that has no fecking clue about my life, because I traveled 60 countries, lived in 8 countries in several continents and guess what, 2 years in UK, so you better assume better mate.
Even so doesn't make me much more or less qualified, because you can learn a lot from other sources.
And the idea of being without borders I discarded myself early on, don't try to bring that up as something I think is possible and put it as my argument to then attack it. This is a straight tactic from Goebbels called Strawman
Though all indicate, that despite more and more countries are being created, more conglomerates too and easier is to travel and work elsewhere, and that is the trend nowadays.
No questions on that. I fully agree, I believe in direct voting, so referendums. And I believe that all results have to be respected even if you screw up.
Saying that, not everything is black or white:
- Referendum it was not binding
- I believe after 2 years with more information, having discovered lies (both sides), people is more informed.
- In which conditions you want to leave (or not) should be voted to
Therefore, I believe (absolutely my opinion, not that SHOULD BE because I worth it) a second referendum, with different questions, not only binary, of the final decision. When you vote a government, if you don't agree, you can change your mind if they don't do it as expected, or they lied to you then you vote again.
But again is my opinion. Mainly I support that the results of the first referendum should be respected. A second referendum I think should be considered, but I would understand if not.
But that would not stop giving my opinion of how wrong it is
You are right, and now I see in the last paragraph that we say more or less the same. We don't know if the decision is right or not till you get out (that frankly I really want it to happen), but certainly we all know way more now than 2 years ago, actually everybody learnt a lot thanks to brexit. Without it, probably we would never would know.
To finish, I am a catalan independentist and I see many similarities as well that many difference in Brexit, and I learnt several things and confirmed others. Separation might be good for many reasons, but economically, separating yourself from an economic block, will be always a disaster. If you are willing to pay the price to get other things, so be it
The argument was about voters not wanting "legal" immigrants. By that study Leave voters preferred economic hardship to having immigrants who were legally in the country and not causing economic problems. So the ecomomic bullshit argument goes straight out of the window. What was the other reason?
I moved to France and initially before having french citizenship, I didn't just expect to live here, go on the dole and let the french state look after me, if I did this you could understand objections . But paying my way and not causing a problem to anyone, what objection would the french have - guess what - they don't!
Legal immigrants, people who satisfy the requirements, not only EU citizens but non-EU citizens. These voters who didn't agree with the rules, what was the reason they wouldn't agree with the rules?
So the leavers who knew what they were voting for:
Breaking the Good Friday Agreement
Stopping free movement of goods
Stopping free movement of people including British people.
Stopping co-operation on thousands of projects with EU countries, research, policing and the list is endless
And an endless list of other benefits.
If you vote for remain, surprise, who knows what the future is but it wasn't that.
There are scum like that Robinson character.
There are despicable politicians like Farage, Le Pen, Wilders, Trump, Salvini etc who preach hatred and division.
These people would have no success and be irrelevant if they didn't have an audience.
Then we have apologists and deniers and if we all stick our head in the sand it will all go away.
You're not really that surprised though, are you?
Did he mention that only a small number of UK transporters will get licences?
Furthermore, which doesn't seem to have been mentioned much, only about 1 in 8 trucks which do the carrying are British. Now if my trucks are going to get stuck in endless queues going to and from the UK - I think I may drop that business and concentrate on the other 27.
The blind leading the blind. And the rest of us get dragged along by proxy. I'd laugh if it wasn't so serious.
After listening to Raab and Davis, the only conclusion is that someone is intentionally trying to crash this country.
The Russians
And the UK has enough simpletons to go with it
I'm not comfortable with that, when I look at a party like FN in France, they are the ones who reached to the russians and tried to seduce them in exchange of money, russian leaders are obviously perfectly happy with it but it's too easy to solely blame russia when we kind of know that in reality it's our own politicians and entrepreneurs who are trying to further their personal financial ambitions.
Yes off course greed comes into it, always will. But look who had been funding brexit. Who has been communicating with the Russians? The Russians have form. Don’t know what their long term plan is but destabilizing Europe and the US is obviously a big part off it.
Reminds me of this comment sadly:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/06/britain-foolishdecline-boris-johnson
We only have ourselves to blame
They do but americans also have their fingerprints on it(Cambridge Analytica for example) and I wouldn't be surprised if chinese are operating quietly too. The way I see it, it's an empire battle and the other sides have decided that divide to conquer was the best way to handle Europe and the EU in particular. My understanding is that fringe political movements and greedy individuals are our weaker links because they seemingly have the habits to not only respond positively to foreign countries solicitations but they also initiate them which made Russia's work fairly easy.
Or rich folks who are waiting to buy up UK assets once the pound tanks
Yep. The UK voted Tory, Tory, Brexit, Tory in succession. You can't do that and then blame other people when things go to shit.
Well i didnt, but the country did yeah.
It would be more accurate, and in some cases more honest, to say the UK voted Tory, Tory, Brexit, Tory and Labour in succession, as at the last general election both Tory and Labour promised Brexit in their manifestos. I get Labour can say they wanted a different sort of Brexit, but they campaigned on Brexit nonetheless.
Exactly, they say you get the govt you deserve and the people have it.