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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Honest John said:
There were 9 countries and zero prospect of a dozen or more Eastern bloc countries joining.

I was working in 75 and I can tell you the emphasis was entirely on trade.

Those hand-picked comments in your link make it look like the country knew what it was doing but there was a real fear of loss of sovereignty - that is why the 75 referendum was called.
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The 9 or more Eastern Bloc countries joined because Britain pushed for it! it was seen (by us) as a way of diluting French-German power, and as a bulwark after the collapse of the soviet union.

The Government 'yes' pamphlet - which was sent to every UK household - on pages 11 & 12 - directly addresses issues of sovereignty.
You can see all the propaganda and leaflets here. A ton of the No ones go into detail about the effects on the impact on our courts, self government, federalism. The 'National referendum campaign' leaflet leads with the question that it was about the right to rule ourselves.

There's a lot of of selective remembering of the debate by the generation at the time that just is not supported by the materials circulated at the time.
 
JPRouve said:
Several leaflets actually point to a social, political and economic Union for example one states:

The aim of the common market are:

- To bring together the people of Europe.
- To raise living standards and improve working conditions.
- To promote growth and boost world trade.
- To help the poorer regions of Europe and the rest of the world.
- To help maintain peace and freedom.
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The language is soft here. More like an alliance. We could say exactly the same about the Commonwealth. But our relationship with them is entirely different
 
Theresa May's about to give a Brexit speech to say that she's sticking with her plan that nobody likes.
 
Honest John said:
The language is soft here. More like an alliance. We could say exactly the same about the Commonwealth. But our relationship with them is entirely different
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Well it's a leaflet, you don't really expect something different.

Now, on the subject of political Union, it has always been part of the EEC and was a subject of tension from the beginning not because of its political nature but because countries had different opinions on the type of political links they should have, France wanted an union of sovereign states while others wanted to go down the federalist route, France(De Gaulle) initially won and that's the type of political union that we currently have.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/25/eu-european-union-political-union-in-out-eec
 
Honest John said:
The Yes campaign definitely went on the trade angle and played down any loss of sovereignty.

As an island that went through the turmoil in the 20th century there would be a strong sense of sovereignty.

This was always going to become an issue.

Maybe as a nation we were never cut out for the full extent of EU's ambitions. Maybe EFTA would have been a better option.
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The whole world went through turmoil and Europe because of RW xenophobic populists. Each country has it's own sense of identity and most of Europe suffered a hell of a lot more than the UK did. The British just think they're superior.

I live in France who happily are part of the EU. I don't live in the EU and just happen to live in France.
France is a sovereign country, has it's own identity, makes it's own laws and so on.
I love France, that's why I'm here but I don't like Holland and don't want to live there.

The UK is the only country in the EU that is governed by Brussels and Berlin. the others aren't , no wonder they want to leave. Just how ridiculous it sounds.

The best thing the UK ever did was become part of Europe and now they're going to make a mindboggling error.

They were already in EFTA as founding members in 1960, they left when they joined the EEC. I am so glad they did join the EEC.
 
nickm said:
The 9 or more Eastern Bloc countries joined because Britain pushed for it! it was seen (by us) as a way of diluting French-German power, and as a bulwark after the collapse of the soviet union.

The Government 'yes' pamphlet - which was sent to every UK household - on pages 11 & 12 - directly addresses issues of sovereignty.
You can see all the propaganda and leaflets here. A ton of the No ones go into detail about the effects on the impact on our courts, self government, federalism. The 'National referendum campaign' leaflet leads with the question that it was about the right to rule ourselves.

There's a lot of of selective remembering of the debate by the generation at the time that just is not supported by the materials circulated at the time.
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I think you are right but I also maintain that the public did not fully understand the full implications and mostly voted on the highly touted economic and trade benefits. Nobody envisioned a 28 nation bloc.

My personal view is that a similar amount of ignorance has been displayed with Brexit.

I struggle to find anyone who can tell me which law or laws that we have adopted from the EU has caused major adversity to their lives. Apart from the odd 'straight banana' anomaly, most are laws we would have passed in some shape or form without the EU.

Virtually nobody knew how much we pay into it each year.

Most have benefited from freedom of trade and travel.

Farmers and poorer areas have had major investments paid for by the EU.

The main issue was immigration and coupled with austerity the only thing that needed to be done to cause this, is for the question to be put.

Perfect Storm.
 
Honest John said:
The language is soft here. More like an alliance. We could say exactly the same about the Commonwealth. But our relationship with them is entirely different
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The EU is an economic alliance in a sense with an common court to make sure that members uphold agreed upon law. Law with no means of enforcement through a common court system holds little value, and thus weakening the economic alliance that is the EU if there was no neutral court system to handle breaking of agreed upon rules and laws. The Commonwealth and the EU are two entirely different political entities and thus they are different in nature just like alliances are never the same every time they are made in general. All alliances or political unions have their own specific goals and agreements in how to reach them. Therefore they have their own unique identity and should not be compared.
 
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Listening to the speech it is becoming clear that it's a no deal. What a complete and utter disaster. May is utterly deluded - wanting the EU to back down. Why the heck would they? It's the UK that needs to budge and offer realistic alternatives. We are fecked.
 
I no longer hold any £ domiciled investments apart from what is in my bank account. Pity people who don't have that luxury.
 
Her tone was funny. Fake tough talk. If it wasn't so serious, I would be on the floor laughing.
 
May sealed this country's fate the day she decided to announce her stupid red lines.
Will say it again, the Tories have ruined this country.
 
Another concerning thing for me is that the IRA are probably getting ready for No Deal as well.
 
She complains about the EU rejecting and offering two unacceptable alternatives and then complains about the EU rejecting but not offering any alternatives. It doesn't make any sense.
 
Adisa said:
Another concerning thing for me is that the IRA are probably getting ready for No Deal as well.
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Vaguely remember reports from prior to the referendum that dissident republicans had held an actual meeting to agree that they were in favour of Brexit for both the smuggling opportunities and potential path to a UI it presented. So yes, they'll be nice and prepared.
 
Millions of people will believe this lie. EU already gave us options at the very beginning. We are the ones that don't want them.
 
JPRouve said:
The aim of the common market are:

- To bring together the people of Europe.
- To raise living standards and improve working conditions.
- To promote growth and boost world trade.
- To help the poorer regions of Europe and the rest of the world.
- To help maintain peace and freedom.
Click to expand...

Wow, epic failure

- For the few and not the many

2018

- There is more division amongst Europeans than ever in the 21st century
- Living standards have worsened for a lot of people in Europe
- Promoting growth with a decade of austerity that made things worse
- Helping the poorer regions by allowing their citizens to move to the better parts of Europe that are actually prospering. Helping regions move their jobless along
 
Stanley Road said:
Wow, epic failure

- For the few and not the many

2018

- There is more division amongst Europeans than ever in the 21st century
- Living standards have worsened for a lot of people in Europe
- Promoting growth with a decade of austerity that made things worse
- Helping the poorer regions by allowing their citizens to move to the better parts of Europe that are actually prospering. Helping regions move their jobless along
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You realize that it's from the 1950s-1960s?
 
Klopper76 said:
Dropped 1.5%. Imagine what'll happen when no deal is confirmed.
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I dread to think, why do people want to destroy their country's economy?

I'm so glad I no longer live there, pity the people who are going to suffer.

Just listened to May's speech. Delusion doesn't come close.
One month from the end of negotiations and she still hasn't presented the EU with her "proposal"
She doesn't understand what's wrong with Chequers, I suggests she reads it.
Furthermore, she expects the EU to come up with a proposal that damages the integrity of the EU.
Think she's lost the plot completely.
 
So we now need to hear from the EU what the real issues are
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This woman is unbelievable. She says neither the UK nor the EU can endanger the integrity of their union, then follows up with that.

Her incoherence is baffling in itself.
 
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