Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Adisa said:
Was listening to the radio on my way to work yesterday. It's outstanding that an MP doesn't know that zero tariff isn't the same as no tariff. Where do we find these people?
Click to expand...

luckily I am not an MP and I can get away with my ignorance. But which is the difference?
 
endless_wheelies said:
Not trying to be *that* guy but you should use exports to make that point.
Click to expand...

No, I should not because the point is about the interconnection, German exports to France or the UK are equivalent but the imports are not, it has a real meaning for companies, they don't import just for a laugh. It's actually a mistake to only look a exports, it ignores the fact that the products that you imports are imported either because they are cheaper or because you don't produce enough for your national market.
 
JPRouve said:
No, I should not because the point is about the interconnection, German exports to France or the UK are equivalent but the imports are not, it has a real meaning for companies, they don't import just for a laugh. It's actually a mistake to only look a exports, it ignores the fact that the products that you imports are imported either because they are cheaper or because you don't produce enough for your national market.
Click to expand...
Well in that case France would be in a far weaker negotiating position than the United Kingdom due to their relative dependance on Germany. Import tariffs and restrictions are entirely under our own control.
 
endless_wheelies said:
Well in that case France would be in a far weaker negotiating position than the United Kingdom due to their relative dependance on Germany. Import tariffs and restrictions are entirely under our own control.
Click to expand...

And that's not the point that I made or even tried to make. The first paragraph clearly stipulates that I do not think that the EU would be more willing to compromise for France. And in the second paragraph, I mentioned a different interdependence between countries and that for example France and Germany exchanges more which means that they have a bigger interest to agree.
 
Adisa said:
EU rules are enshrined into law (Maastricht Treaty). The EU is a legal construct and the four freedoms are indivisible. There is no negotiation. It's simple, you take this if you want that.
It's a fundamental point that's lost on us here in the UK. The EU is not a gentleman's agreement where bits and pieces can be negotiate.
Click to expand...

Having read this again many hours later, it’s astonishing to me that people can not see any kind of reasoning for leaving at all. I mean look at that post, the EU is bonkers. And yet you somehow paint this none negotiable stance as a positive? You are all fecking nuts. This thread is as bad as a WhatsApp group between redwood mogg and farage
 
Last edited:
JPRouve said:
And that's not the point that I made or even tried to make. The first paragraph clearly stipulates that I do not think that the EU would be more willing to compromise for France. And in the second paragraph, I mentioned a different interdependence between countries and that for example France and Germany exchanges more which means that they have a bigger interest to agree.
Click to expand...
That's not interdependence then, that's France's dependence on Germany. If Germany whacked up tariffs on French goods then French companies would go out of business while German companies would simply source non-French suppliers.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Having read this again many hours later, it’s astonishing to me that people can not see any kind of reasoning for leaving at all. I mean look at that post, the EU is bonkers. And yet you somehow paint this none negotiable stance as a positive?
Click to expand...
Obviously there's reasons. They just pale in the face of the negative consequences.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Having read this again many hours later, it’s astonishing to me that people can not see any kind of reasoning for leaving at all. I mean look at that post, the EU is bonkers. And yet you somehow paint this none negotiable stance as a positive? You are all fecking nuts. This thread is as bad as a WhatsApp group between redwood mogg and farage
Click to expand...

They (and we) built a vast continental system based around a set of rules. Everyone signed up to those rules which were carefully designed to create balance and prosperity. So now the EU is supposed to trash those rules and risk the balance collapsing just because the UK are throwing their toys out the pram?
 
Kentonio said:
They (and we) built a vast continental system based around a set of rules. Everyone signed up to those rules which were carefully designed to create balance and prosperity. So now the EU is supposed to trash those rules and risk the balance collapsing just because the UK are throwing their toys out the pram?
Click to expand...
Who is experiencing all this prosperity? I thought the eu would be largely unaffected by Brexit.
 
endless_wheelies said:
That's not interdependence then, that's France's dependence on Germany. If Germany whacked up tariffs on French goods then French companies would go out of business while German companies would simply source non-French suppliers.
Click to expand...

There is nothing simple in sourcing different suppliers, you assume that they are all equal which is wrong or that viable alternatives exists which is also wrong. And then I said bigger interdependence not an absolute interdependence, I also said that I don't think that it would put France in a better situation than the UK, that the remaining countries wouldn't bend for France.
You seem to agree but for some reason try to disagree with things that I haven't stated.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Having read this again many hours later, it’s astonishing to me that people can not see any kind of reasoning for leaving at all. I mean look at that post, the EU is bonkers. And yet you somehow paint this none negotiable stance as a positive? You are all fecking nuts. This thread is as bad as a WhatsApp group between redwood mogg and farage
Click to expand...

The EU was set up with a rule base to which the UK made a large contribution in designing those rules.
If countries want to subsequently change those rules then it has to be decided from within amongst the member states.

What the UK have done is decided to leave because they no longer want to abide by those rules. Fair enough, go, but don't expect to be able to continue to reap the benefits of being a member. That is what is infuriating a lot of people.

The UK have made a decision but they don't want to accept the consequences of that decision.

Remainers think it is the most stupid decision the country has made since god knows when, but it cannot be proved until after the UK have actually left.
Then we can see whether it was a sensible decision or not.

People are entitled to their opinion whether one agrees with them or not. How do you criticise a thread, just because it doesn't agree with your opinion.
 
Stanley Road said:
Who is experiencing all this prosperity? I thought the eu would be largely unaffected by Brexit.
Click to expand...

Europe is far more prosperous now than it was before the EU. Britain in particular has gone from being the sick man of Europe to being the world’s 5th largest economy. Of course now we’re going to throw that away, but hey it was good while it lasted.

As for the rest of the EU, of course they won’t be largely unaffected. The damage they take will just be much smaller than the damage the U.K. suffer because it’ll be spread between many countries, and they’ll still have the benefits of EU membership while we’ll be out on our arses.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Having read this again many hours later, it’s astonishing to me that people can not see any kind of reasoning for leaving at all. I mean look at that post, the EU is bonkers. And yet you somehow paint this none negotiable stance as a positive? You are all fecking nuts. This thread is as bad as a WhatsApp group between redwood mogg and farage
Click to expand...
I really don't understand why some find it difficult to reason. Imagine this scenario.
You and your friends set up a club based on rules. One of your friends quits the club and then asks you to change your rules so it suits him.
What do you do?
 
4bars said:
luckily I am not an MP and I can get away with my ignorance. But which is the difference?
Click to expand...
Zero tariffs goods still have to be checked and cleared. For example, Japanese goods still coming into Europe still deed to be decleared, checked and cleared at the point of entry, even though the tariff is zero. That's different from no tariff, like what we have in a customs Union.
 
Adisa said:
I really don't understand why some find it difficult to reason. Imagine this scenario.
You and your friends set up a club based on rules. One of your friends quits the club and then asks you to change your rules so it suits him.
What do you do?
Click to expand...
Let him leave and ask the other members to make up the loss in fees
 
Stanley Road said:
Change in terms and conditions for the other members is ok but not rule change?
Click to expand...

Only about 6% of the EU Budget goes towards actually running the EU so the cost shared by the remaining members is minimal.
The budget is decided every 7 years. One of its members has signed up to the budget but is leaving before the end of the budget period and thus is liable to pay its dues.

Then the new budget period will be decided by the remaining members and they will decide between them what the money will be spent on.

This is another red herring put around by the Leave campaign equal to the ridiculous "they need us more than we need them".

The current budget is below
https://europa.eu/european-union/topics/budget_en

If only the Leavers could have found out for themselves instead of believing politicians who lie or the dishonest British media.
 
Last edited:
Adisa said:
I really don't understand why some find it difficult to reason. Imagine this scenario.
You and your friends set up a club based on rules. One of your friends quits the club and then asks you to change your rules so it suits him.
What do you do?
Click to expand...

Get all his money and his clothes, beat him up and throw him on the street, naked. Yeah...
 
Adisa said:
Zero tariffs goods still have to be checked and cleared. For example, Japanese goods still coming into Europe still deed to be decleared, checked and cleared at the point of entry, even though the tariff is zero. That's different from no tariff, like what we have in a customs Union.
Click to expand...

Oh, I see the difference is in the paperwork. I thought it was a monetary difference. Thanks for the clarification
 
Steven Seagull said:
Having read this again many hours later, it’s astonishing to me that people can not see any kind of reasoning for leaving at all. I mean look at that post, the EU is bonkers. And yet you somehow paint this none negotiable stance as a positive? You are all fecking nuts. This thread is as bad as a WhatsApp group between redwood mogg and farage
Click to expand...

Because every single little thing isn't perfect doesn't mean that any of those things are anywhere near enough to make it sensible to leave.
 
Still think there's a decent chance he becomes the next pm if the leadership vote goes to party members. May will not be PM this time next year.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
Doubt he regrets it, just figuring out how to climb the Ladder of Chaos
Click to expand...
The British should really bin this type of Politics/Journalism. People "very close" to Boris Johnson shouldn't be listened too. The man has shown himself up as a 2 letter writing flip flopping baffoon. I'll listen to him if he's going to make a speech about staying in Parliament or on Piccadilly Circus but his "very close" friends can go feck themselves (as if they weren't himself).
 
Stanley Road said:
Article from the Graun that i totally agree with.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/07/trump-brexit-referendum-us-election-results

Neither Brexit nor Trump created the divisions, desperation, anomie and anxiety we are witnessing – they are products of them and have deepened them. For we are not where we were – and many, including me, don’t want to go back there.
Click to expand...
It's a decent piece. Not really offering any answers, but can see the dangers in impeaching Trump or reversing Brexit- putting the proles back in their place. Saying that, a lot of the 'elite' he talks about, eg Boris and JRM, are ardent Brexit.
 
Jippy said:
It's a decent piece. Not really offering any answers, but can see the dangers in impeaching Trump or reversing Brexit- putting the proles back in their place. Saying that, a lot of the 'elite' he talks about, eg Boris and JRM, are ardent Brexit.
Click to expand...
No it doesnt offer answers but points to the reasons behind the votes, reasons that many remainers dont get. The writer of the article is a remainer that doesn't want to go back to how things were pre vote. The votes have not divided the people, they have simply brought into the open how divided the people were and are. I find that a good thing.
 
Stanley Road said:
No it doesnt offer answers but points to the reasons behind the votes, reasons that many remainers dont get. The writer of the article is a remainer that doesn't want to go back to how things were pre vote. The votes have not divided the people, they have simply brought into the open how divided the people were and are. I find that a good thing.
Click to expand...
The depth of the divisions, both in terms of geography and demographics has certainly been an eye-opener and pretty shocking tbh. Agree that scar is not going away any time soon.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.