Is it not clear enuff yet? And she is still there. As bad as she is who in her party is better?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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depends on your point of view - but it will probably be too harsh a brexit for one wing of the party... not harsh enough for the other and the outcome is either she is seen as the glue that holds these wings of the party together - or she is seen as incompetent by both wings and they basically start a civil war to get control of the party.
I think the latter is more likley and my guess is she will be gone in summer 2019 (bit nobody else really wants to be tarnished with the inevitable blame that will come with brexit before then)
Brexit is largely driven by class division. These divisions long predated Thatcher. When you consider in the Victorian era that the 'coarse and common' were not allowed to mix with their 'betters' and were expected to be submissive to them when they did interact, its fair to say there has been a slow rate of progress on that front, even through and beyond Thatcher's reign. You could even argue that he model of capitalism gave greater opportunity for social progression for the working classes through entrepreneurship than was possible before.
I think that like racism, the day when these divisions no longer matter at all, will be a long long time after the death of even the youngest poster on here.
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Anyone would think that poor or rich people never existed more than 45 years ago. If anything as time has progressed over the centuries and over the past 45 years the gap has reduced.
For a poor person to vote Tory or to vote Brexit is not going to help them but they did. Heard of reasons that they are so desperate that they would do so.
Just think for five minutes and it's obvious that action would not help them.
However, I have a feeling that 17.4 million were not poor.
One may have noticed that the most ardent Brexiters are actually rich and for some unfathomable reason are now idolised by their so called poor followers who believe their fortunes will somehow be magically changed by leaving the EU. I mean how gullible can you get.
You're right that the vote has brought divisions into the open and do you really believe people being openly racist and xenophobic is a good thing?
I'm not sure why I struggle to decide which class is on which side then. The people with real money and the old middle class seem to be more for Brexit, as do the working class blue collar workers. The new middle class, younger and educated are mostly Remain. Even that's all a matter of degree though, just because 70% of a category votes one way and 30% the other doesn't meant that the 30% don't count when the referendum's effectively one constituency. There's far too much categorisation nowadays, I think belief in democracy is lessening, and unfortunately more so in the young.
It's far from clear. The ERG crew still think they will get their way. My guess is a big section of the party will want her head this time next year's
No im just saying brexit or trump are not the cause of social divide, it was always there.
Im in Bristol atm and for some reason decided to look up the st pauls riot. I had forgotten about toxteth and tottenham were in the same era. I remember the attempted beheading of pc blackelok. Great times.
Agree, the social divide was always there and even more so the further you go back in history.
No, Brexit and Trump are not the cause, they may be seen as a solution to some people for their present situation. I have no doubt that in the not too distant future those people will discover that they were not the solution.
Go back long before Toxteth & Tottenham and you'll find plenty of such things.
I'd say it's far more to do with age than class.
You are right that it's a lot more complex than that. Here's a different take on it.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/brexit-and-the-squeezed-middle/
Vince Cable stepping down as Lib Dem leader could be interesting depending on what happens next. As much as their electoral and electoral performance and relevance has been laughable recently, a new pro-Brexit voice could find a receptive audience. I'm not predicting a Lib Dem surge in the polls but I do think there's a chance that whoever the new leader is they will possibly find a more receptive audience than the last two have.
Hopefully someone younger than the arc
The "solution" to the Irish border issue may as well be magic as it's predicated on the rapid deployment and implementation of technology yet proven to exist. Or should I say it would exist without people talking our country's ability to magic up technology down.
Maybe it's our fault for being surprised that much of the government seems to be clueless when it comes to the border.
Good god, it's like a spoof interview.
How can you not be of the opinion that this country is fecked?
I know Westminster doesn't give a feck about NI, but come on.
I know Westminster doesn't give a feck about NI, but come on.
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Leaving aside the "war criminal" grunts, why isn't Corbyn the one saying some of this stuff?
We've gone from a man who is capable of being as detailed, articulate and persuasive on issues such as Brexit, to someone who doesn't like to talk about it and yells "Can
I finish!" petulantly at journalists who ask a follow-up question. Blair persuaded the country into a war it didn't want and subsequently regretted. That is what it is. But Corbyn isn't even willing to make the case for something his party, its members, its voters, it's financial backers his own supporters want.
And Theresa May's stammering, awkward, painful-to-watch attempts at communicating her position on Brexit also pales into comparison when looking back at a time when, love him or loathe him, we had a PM who at the very least could give the impression is was an absolute fecking expert at anything he spoke about.
Those were race riots, not class. Mostly down to angst over sus laws and brutal policing. You can add youth unemployment into the mix but it's hard to blame Thatcher for them, and sus laws were repealed in 1981.
Ok, coincidence it was on her watch. Remind me what her govt did for youth unemployment or unemployment in general.
It definitely improved. It started out slowly but the numbers definitely dropped.
It's sort of amazing, image having a whole political out look based just on annoying the ''libs''.Oh lord that one on the left has something wrong upstairs
In Italy, Ignazio Corrao (adviser to the deputy Prime Minister) has said that if there is a no-deal Brexit, Italy wouldn't abandon Britain and would be prepared to make a bilateral arrangement, separate to the EU. The full article's in the Telegraph.
Isn’t the Italian PM the Italian equivalent of Marine Le Pen, Nigel Farage and Geert Wilders?
Also, doesn’t that essentially break EU rules?
I think you're possibly thinking of Matteo Salvini? There is a surge of populist, Eurosceptic opinion in Italy right now.
I've no idea whether it breaks EU rules or not, but Corrao said that Britain isn't leaving the continent of Europe, it's leaving an organisation. Italians are also not ruling out leaving Europe in the future. Much of the talk may be sabre-rattling, I suspect.
It's one of the most populist and nebulous article that I have ever read, he doesn't mention a single fact or even debatable point, just clichés.
Good for him
Basically, brexiteers think their plans are shit too.
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Just what we need, Star Wars missiles 
Not sure this stuff even surprises me now.
I must have missed it but did someone decide to line up all the Brits and tell them that all the idiots , racists and xenophobes should line up on the right and all the rest line up on the left.
Now you on the right, they said, the most stupid and incompetent ones will be put in charge of the government and the others on the right will vote for Brexit.
Now you on the right, they said, the most stupid and incompetent ones will be put in charge of the government and the others on the right will vote for Brexit.
It isn't incompetence - this was the plan all along, IMO.
Yes and their polling under 10%.
From a section of the Tory party , for sure; but none of them, including the three stooges now have a high ranking post in the government.
True enough, mate.