Case in point.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
Case in point.
Indeed.
Nah it’s more like your dad going for a bad haircut and half way through everyone starts calling him a racist prick and wishing he would die, so you get in the chair next to him for moral support
At which point they ask you do you also want a bad haircut and you're too polite to refuse..
If you're willing to switch sides because some people on your own side kind of annoy you then you probably never really supported that original side in the first place. It's not as if Brexiteers are any less sanctimonious than Remainers.
It's seen as a betrayal of the democratic process. It isn't something I necessarily agree with as its a very black and white way of looking at things but it is understandable.
These polls are all bollocks anyway. Rarely take into account people who want to leave the EU but are unhappy with parliaments pathetic attempt to do it. Nor do they account for remainers who wouldn’t mind a “soft” brexit.
Lol, this again?
I don't get what is undemocratic about parliament unable to agree on what was an incredibly vague question in a referendum and putting it back to the people to get a clearer picture on what they want.
If you have a problem with a second referendum, then you should have had a problem with the first.
It's all about prefrence. Remainders who are willing to swallow a soft brexit would still prefer we remain. What is undeniable is that the public think the government is a shambles. But no one is putting up any solutions, neither the public nor the government. A soft brexit is the only thing that doesn't harm the economy for decades but people keep saying the government doesn't have the mandate for that. Which is fair. But the government has no mandate for hard brexit either.
This is the problem with referendums. One you go down the rabbit hole, there's often no where to go. It's time people accept the referendum in 2016 was faulty.
You can't ask a simple yes or no question on an inside that is so complex.
By the time March 2019 hits, it will have been 2 years 9 months since the referendum.
It was 2 years 1 month between the previous general elections.
Personally I think it's undemocratic to have so many elections, we should be forced to live with our decisions and abide by the democracy for at least 2 generations. Any laws outlining otherwise are simply unpatriotic and an insult to the people.
It was 2 years 1 month between the previous general elections.
Personally I think it's undemocratic to have so many elections, we should be forced to live with our decisions and abide by the democracy for at least 2 generations. Any laws outlining otherwise are simply unpatriotic and an insult to the people.
I have actually met a few people who voted remain who now say they would vote leave because they say they feel disgusted by how the EU has conducted these negotiations.
I don't agree but it isn't a niche opinion seemingly.
I don't agree but it isn't a niche opinion seemingly.
I don't know what uber beings are and I also don't know why you are coming in swinging.
I haven't insulted anyone or said anyone is an idiot, only stated a fact that some people voted remain, would now vote leave, I don't agree with their position and that I've met enough people who have said so to think it isn't a niche position.
I've seen a lot of comments along those lines online. Bizarre stance, overlooking the fact that the government can't even agree with itself about what it's Brexit position is, yet blames the EU for failing negotiations...
I still don't understand what the British public are expecting from the negotiations.
Basically at the end of the day, if the UK agree to accept the EU rules or certain EU rules they can obtain access to X or Y or Z depending on which rules they accept.
If they don't accept any of the rules they won't get anything.
100% certain is that the EU are not going to change the rules and I believe a lot of Brits actually think they will.
The EU have made this perfectly clear since day one but the UK isn't listening.
Coming soon to ITV1 Fraudsearch - A gritty detective drama when DC May investigates a cold case - looking to solve the case of Boris Johnsons involvement with his friend Taki in threatening a journalist . A conflicted May must decide, is he in or out, hard or soft and will she be forced to call for assistance from maverick French Detective Barnier!
I'd imagine there are also some who voted remain who simply believe that the result of the referendum must be respected and enforced as a matter of principle.
I would understand that position if it wasn't in favour of a side that has lied and deceived on that particular subject in order to get where they are. The moral stand makes little sense.
Did they say what the EU has supposedly done to disgust them?
Would like to speak to some of them. Sounds more daft than the people arguing for leave in the first place. May has presented a plan that even her party doesn't support.
I have a friend who works in HR for a meat processing company. They're currently hiring directly from Romania and Slovakia in order to get factory workers. They're even doing the training in their languages.
I could be wrong but the EU showed a fair amount of detachment and is already treating the UK like a third country, like an outsider. And before the referendum, it seemed that a lot of people from all sides thought that the context would be warmer, closer to a mediation than an actual divorce.
God knows why, I’m British and I think the EU should be kicking the UK governments ass even harder right now. It takes a special level of delusion to think you can cause major economic harm to other countries and expect them to be warm towards you.
I think the EU position has always been clear and that they were never going to allow the UK to pick and choose which bits they like.
They said to the UK, tell us what you want and our relationship will be adjusted accordingly
The EU probably couldn't believe that the UK actually did expect to be able to pick and choose and in fact they still do. Keep all the best bits but not have the bits that are less likeable.
Michel Barnier has the patience of a saint, trying to negotiate with a group of 5 year olds who haven't stop squabbling with themselves for over 2 years.
It's not going to stop either, there will never be a clear UK position, the squabbling will still be going on many years after the UK has left.
Sensitive flowers...I dread to think how they will feel once we start negotiations with the US and China.
Its the lunatics and the clueless who thought the EU would be bending their rules for us. The rigidity of the EU is strangely a reason people give both for leaving and remaining. It’s an unusual situation
The rules can be changed if there is a clear benefit to the remaining the countries and that's the point that seems to be missed. The UK aren't big enough to create a situation where a clear benefit will appear, if we were talking about a frexit no one in the UK would be defending any sort of rule changing because there is no clear benefit.
EU rules are enshrined into law (Maastricht Treaty). The EU is a legal construct and the four freedoms are indivisible. There is no negotiation. It's simple, you take this if you want that.
It's a fundamental point that's lost on us here in the UK. The EU is not a gentleman's agreement where bits and pieces can be negotiated.
Was listening to the radio on my way to work yesterday. It's outstanding that an MP doesn't know that zero tariff isn't the same as no tariff. Where do we find these people?
I see the point that you are making but the EU legal system is negotiable, it's just not negoatiable by and for a third country, only the members can do it and it needs to be in their exclusive interest. The process also takes time.
I agree. I think it’s a huge reason for the upswell in anti EU sentiment. Particularly after Lisbon which we didn’t even get a vote on
True... I do wonder though if faced with a frexit (or Germany) how willing the EU might be to negotiate a little more... I think the fact we have the rebates, never adopted the euro and in many ways blamed the EU for many things that really were not the fault of the EU actually makes us less off a loss than we like to think
I don't think that the EU as a whole would be more willing, though neighboring countries probably would be more willing to find a common ground because France has a lot more daily interactions with them. The issue would be for countries like the UK or Hungary these countries have a different relationship with France and have no reason to change the rules.
An other thing that I find interesting in terms of value France are to the UK a lesser trade partner than Netherlands, Germany import two times more from France than from the UK. So while currently the UK have the support of Netherlands, France probably wouldn't have it but Germany or Italy would have a bigger interest to deal with France.
Not trying to be *that* guy but you should use exports to make that point.
Right now the objectives would have to be more or less the same - preserve the integrity of the European Union. However in the negotiation preceding the referendum there'd have been far more effort made by Germany and therefore the EU at large to give them a good deal to assuage their population; like you say France are a double act with Germany for pushing the EU's long-term agenda, Germany would be far more loathe to lose them. United Kingdom are actually something of a brick in the machine for those two.
I wonder about the societal point in all this; if you've lived abroad then you'll know the rest of Europe tend to have far less of an isolationist island mentality than us and view each other as old friends more than Europe's grumpy old uncle United Kingdom. Beneath all the political and economic considerations there'd be a natural inclination to be kind to France.