Perhaps agree a "transition period" where everything goes horribly wrong and the population changes their mind.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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And what, hypothetically, would be the ramifications if we kept an open border and told the EU to go feck itself? War?
You'd be telling the WTO to feck off. You'd have no international trade whatsoever and be international pariah's. Ireland isn't stupid enough to follow you into oblivion, we'd just facepalm and wait for you to come to your senses and start dealing with reality as opposed to your naive, childish little fantasy.
Money is being funnelled to poorer regions by the EU already
Just because a person can freely walk from ROI to NI without checks, doesn't mean they'll be able to legally work in NI, much less get to mainland UK (unless they're a good swimmer).
So I don't really see the big problem here. Unless we are worried that a bunch of illegal immigrants are going to swamp NI, and let me tell you I've been to NI, many times, and I don't think illegal immigration from the south is something they need to worry about.
Who gives a monkeys if there is no hard border between NI and ROI ?
PS I would be happy for freedom of movement to remain.
Then your having border checks between NI and the mainland, a 'no no' for the DUP
Nonsense, trying to get visas for non eu migrants was a fecking nightmare , and have you not heard of Windrush? This government, and especially May, have been right bastards
Can’t help but feel this is going to be no deal car crash for us all
Yep - not just that but you are effectively cutting NI off from the rest of the UK.
I'd probably start with a judicial enquiry into Vote Leave, Cambridge Analytica and Russian interference. It would likely end with Boris Johnson and Michael Gove facing some hefty legal issues so she wouldn't have the guts to do it.
An optimistic 1% of me thinks that May is dragging this out as long as possible for the Mueller investigation to entrap Farage and suspend the whole farce as a result. But I think the Tories' link to Russian donations will mean that any such justice would be buried.
Wait, you're saying he already found another job? And now he has to go on a daily commute? Ain't that some modern day slavery.
Seriously though, since you're in IT you must be well aware of the technological advancement all across the world. 1.4 billion people in China and 1.3 billion people in India are making huge steps. If you genuinely think freedom of workers throughout Europe isn't essential for the development of Europe in the next 30 years to stay competitive, then fair enough.
But don't forget that instead of completely dismissing a united Europe with free movement of labour and letting bitterness fuel your political views to a point where someone would rather sabotage their own country than bring it forward, you can also focus on the possibilities. Believe it or not, with some focus and good political discussions on regulation you can actually find tailor made solutions for a lot of problems.
What do you think about this?
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/eu-brexit-uk-labour-laws-migrant-workers-a8375836.html
I would call a pause for a "national debate", revoke Article 50 and pledge that as PM the government would spend the next 3-4 years getting it "absolutely right" and then at the next general election present as part of our manifesto whether we as the Conservative party will endorse the deal that has been negotiated or whether at that point we feel it's right to think again, in which case a vote for us (Tories) will be to reject to deal and continue with membership as on current (July 2018) terms.
If I was May I'd feel emboldened to do that as she's damned as she does and damned if she doesn't now anyway. There is no party to lose. No rebellion avoidable. So why the feck not?
You ignored the first part of my post.
Breda is a 2 hour drive each way.
I work with foreigners from all over the world, they had to get paperwork done but whats wrong with that. Its not like they were entitled to go anywhere. Why should we not have visa systems? I had a police check every 3 months when i got to nl, not exactly a laborious experience. feck knows why people on here get so upset about it. When a company wants you they will do most of the grunt work for you.
Its called progress, things getting better and people don't have to waste time with visas. Or are you wedded to the past? Do you think we should return to outside toilets as that's all we had in the past?
You have to admit that it would reduce the Febreze budget.
Yes, yes i do. I can never find an outside bog and pissing on a bush gets you a fine. Applying for a visa is not an issue, its just paperwork usually done by hiring company.
Lets laugh all together then, I doubt many people from this forum has much more personal experience immigrating than me, including deportation. But hey. Laughter is always good specially when you don't have idea about what you are laughing about.
The stupid things that local people complains about and blames to immigrants when is that they are or unprepared or lazy is staggering. As well the sense of entitlement that they deserve a better job or a higher salary just because they are born by sheer luck in a random country. Yes, locals don't deserve a job if they lose against an immigrant. Basically because that immigrant has worse conditions for starters
Corporations arent a problem, small companies are. And who takes notice of eu rules? Not Germany. EU rules, for the few not the many.
You don't need ANY ID to cross a EU country to another. None. Absolutely none.
As Spanish I can go anywhere without showing any ID. IF brits needs to show the passport, is because you are picking a plane. Is safety reason, nothing else. Also, from spain to UK, to UK to Spain, with the spanish ID is enough, not passport. But as I repeat, is because you are picking a plane. If a brit is in Belfast (UK) and want to cross to Irleand, they don't need ID because the "border crossing" is by land. If a brit wants to cross by land France to Germany, they don't need an ID at all but they need it if they fly
Also, freedom of movement is not only the right to go to a country without an ID, is the right to stay if you have some requisites to stay (and work, and vacations, etc...), without freedom of movement, this requisites will be much more restrictives
As Spanish I can go anywhere without showing any ID. IF brits needs to show the passport, is because you are picking a plane. Is safety reason, nothing else. Also, from spain to UK, to UK to Spain, with the spanish ID is enough, not passport. But as I repeat, is because you are picking a plane. If a brit is in Belfast (UK) and want to cross to Irleand, they don't need ID because the "border crossing" is by land. If a brit wants to cross by land France to Germany, they don't need an ID at all but they need it if they fly
Also, freedom of movement is not only the right to go to a country without an ID, is the right to stay if you have some requisites to stay (and work, and vacations, etc...), without freedom of movement, this requisites will be much more restrictives
You need either an EU approved Id or a passport to go from UK -> France... So that's not true
We've gone from one incorrect extreme to another
Buddy the world ain't a fair place. Anybody born in privilege will never willingly surrender it and anyone born outside of it will strive to get there and then fight to protect it. The same way I hold absolutely nothing against the people who migrate to better their lives, I also hold nothing against the people who want to protect the privilege they are born in. It's the way of life.
There is solid evidence that migration (at least in the UK's case) is good for the economy, but equally there's evidence that it creates pressure on the incomes of the lowest skilled people. The "lazy or unprepared" as you decided to call them, as if that's a fair description on anyone caught at the bottom. And those people have every right to request the protection from their Government because that Government is there to work for the betterment of the lives of its people. Not all the people of the world. Its mission is not world fairness.
We don't live in some sort of meritocratic utopia up in the clouds where the Angels sing and the Cherubs play. Humans neither act rationally, nor care for fairness a lot of the times. If that makes you angry, be prepared to be angry for the rest of your life.
What about people who don't have a company to pay for them? And doesn't applying for Visas cost money? It's ultimately payed by the customer.
I knew a girl at work, not super bright but sparky personality. Went on holiday to Greece one week, came home and was offered a job at the hotel on the Wednesday and was working there by Saturday. Do you think that would be as easy if she had to apply for a visa for the holiday and again for employment?
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Yes, you need a passport to leave and enter Britain. After that, you can drive all across Europe with no checks whatsoever - we do it a lot.
The only real attention you get is at the Swiss border, Switzerland being one of the countries where you need to buy an annual vignette to drive on their motorways. Once they see you've got the sticker on your windscreen, that's it.
Was she paying tax? Were the hotel even?
So do extremists
Trump with the smackdown. We are fecked.
Funny, last time I got a train into Switzerland there was nothing at all. Was going from France. On the train to Italy though the police asked to see my passport and asked my destination but nothing more.
I wonder if Brits would prefer Trump in charge of Brexit negotiations rather than May...?
no
What does that tell you?
You get a minimum of A$17.70 plus 9.5% superannuation for flipping burgers or fruit picking here, unless your employer wants to risk prosecution. The jobs that often remain unfilled are often considered undesirable for reasons not strictly salary related e.g. carers in old people's homes, seasonal remote location fruit picking.
Many low paid jobs are taken by young people and students especially as you can't get unemployment until you are over 21 (I think). We also have skill shortages which are addressed by highly inefficient "skilled" worker visas which are universally hated by workers, employers and the general population.
She has only just started but I'd assume so. This should show you the power of free movement for ordinary working people
It's funny when people are confronted with the simple truth they disappear rather than acknowledge they didn't know what they were talking about
You don't need a passport to leave or enter Britain! You can use an EU approved ID card. It's just there is no EU approved I'd cards for Brits. (Thanks Cameron).
Trump has always been clear about his America first policies. He doesn't care if Brexit is in the UK's best interest, it is clear it's in the USA's as it weakens the EU which is Trump's focus-divide and rule. Can the UK do a deal with the USA? Yes, with a reduced leverage.
..
Both you are @matherto don't know what you are quoting.
The government reintroduced exit checks
You can get through these exit checks with rither a passport or an EU approved is card.
Listen. At my work, we have about 30% of the workforce that need to go into Europe every week. When one of these 30% are an non-british EU citizen, and their passport runs out, what do they do? Are they stuck? No they just use their ID card and carry on as before. But what do the Brits do, are they stuck without a passport? Yes! They have to go and waste a day sitting and getting a new passport.
You can travel anywhere across the whole of the EU without a passport. Instead you need a EU approved ID card. That is accepted by all EU governments including ours.
Problem is, there is no British EU approved ID card. David Cameron scrapped it. So most EU countries have a dual ID system for traveling around Europe (ID card and passport) whereas we only have the one system (passport)
Google it
Both you are @matherto don't know what you are quoting.
The government reintroduced exit checks
You can get through these exit checks with rither a passport or an EU approved is card.
Listen. At my work, we have about 30% of the workforce that need to go into Europe every week. When one of these 30% are an non-british EU citizen, and their passport runs out, what do they do? Are they stuck? No they just use their ID card and carry on as before. But what do the Brits do, are they stuck without a passport? Yes! They have to go and waste a day sitting and getting a new passport.
You can travel anywhere across the whole of the EU without a passport. Instead you need a EU approved ID card. That is accepted by all EU governments including ours.
Problem is, there is no British EU approved ID card. David Cameron scrapped it. So most EU countries have a dual ID system for traveling around Europe (ID card and passport) whereas we only have the one system (passport)
Google it
Trump has been mimicking Farage and Boris J. Farage, an unelected loser in his own country is now advising Trump on the UK, EU relationship.
I cannot believe what is happening in this world.
I have always been a bit sanguine about politics.
But now I am truly alarmed.
I have always been a bit sanguine about politics.
But now I am truly alarmed.