Another thing, Corbyn abstaining is what might actually save her. The irony.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Of course it will. He will abstain because he supports hard Brexit but it'd be too inconvenient for him to proactively support the government so he's doing the next best thing. The 'fun' will begin when those who point this out are accused of smearing him.
When it boils down to it the government's position is leave the CU and SM but negotiate a separate trade deal with all the same benefits as before and the Labour position is to leave to CU and SM but negotiate a separate new 'partnership' with all the benefits as before. What gets me are extremists on each side being so desperate to insist there exists any real, tangible difference between the two sides. Meanwhile not even worse-case-scenario warnings were leaked only a week ago that show how utterly disastrous this could be even if it goes fairly well.
But May will say something like 'Brexit means Brexit', Corbyn will announce support for the ad breaks in Corrie to be limited to 2 minutes and everyone who scratches their head thinking: "WTF is going on?" will be the one's who're under attack on social media.
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May and Corbyn are two peas in a pod over this issue. Like they've done a deal to make each other look credible by making themselves look stupid. May couldn't have wished for a better opposition at this time.
"Single Market without FoM", Corbyn is playing is games and taking us for fools.
"Single Market without FoM", Corbyn is playing is games and taking us for fools.
I have to ask, is Corbyn as deceitful as some pretend? Because I have seen people say from the beginning that he was pro brexit, I don't know his public message but wasn't he for it before the referendum(without it necessarily being in Labour's manifesto)?
He wants hard brexit but is trying to do everything possible to minimise the political fallout on him. So he is playing the same tricks we acuuse all politicians of doing.
I'd even have more respect for him if he just came out and said it.
He wants hard brexit because he has this fantasy he can take over and introduce his own version of post-brexit utopia wihtowi being held even partly respisnires for the chaos.
The House of Lords forced him into a corner and the latest shinanigans is his attempt to wriggle out.
The thing I find wholly unconvincing is that Corbyn couldn't possibly oppose Brexit because a minority of Labour voters support it. Isn't he supposed to be a conviction politician? A man of principle? Moreover on every single issue there will be divided opinion among the voters of a particular party. Would this excuse a politician not really taking a stand on anything because 20% of their support disagree with 80% so therefore a leader's best job is to just muddle along not doing one thing or another for the sake of keeping the peace. It seems to excuse Corbyn.
So can we expect Corbyn to only take positions on issues when there exists complete unanimity of opinion inside the party from now on or is this 'Tea is good, but let's not forget about coffee' wishy-washy crap reserved exclusively for Brexit?
So can we expect Corbyn to only take positions on issues when there exists complete unanimity of opinion inside the party from now on or is this 'Tea is good, but let's not forget about coffee' wishy-washy crap reserved exclusively for Brexit?
Corbyn is a life long brexiter, he views the EU as a capitalist plot, if he was still on the back benches he'd be with Kate Hoey.
Because he wants to be leader, he fakes support for remain whilst asking for the impossible like Single Market with FoM. He wants it to fail, and it will.
Of course you're absolutely right but it's depressing just how much ire is reserved for people like you who point these things out, compared to how comparatively little this great swell of apparently politically energised Corbynites give much of a toss about what the Tories are doing. They say Corbyn has inspired people to get involved in politics who otherwise would feel isolated. But what good is inspiring people to engage in politics if seemingly the only thing they are passionate about is defending a single politician against the evils of criticism or, as we saw this week, satire?
But how does everybody know that? What I'm trying to coax out of you is that he is being true to himself and what he apparently defended from the beginning, he wants brexit and he has no reason to put an actual fight against it, also he is a politician like all of the others, he is unlikely to have higher standards.
I presume you mean he's asking for a Single Market without Freedom of Movement. On Sky News this morning a Labour geezer said it would be negotiable. Labour's policy is as clear as mud, I don't see how you could put any trust in them whatever view you hold.
I agree with most of what you're saying. Many labour voters like myself have tried to rationalise the way he's gone about it by saying he's being smart not playing vague, so he doesn't lose votes. I have come to the truth that what you're saying is correct. Realising that, I now have trouble reconciling that the party I vote for now has a leader with no will to oppose the Tories and their version of Brexit. I suspect a lot of other Labour voters will reach the same point.
He is also as sneaky as the rest of them.
If you're going to support hard Brexit, be clear about it.
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The problem is that the hard brexit-soft brexit dichotomy is fallacious, it's a lullaby invented by anti EU parties(I'm putting all Europe in it not just the UK). The mantra "brexit means brexit" is ridiculous because it's obvious, you just have to consider the reasons behind all the arguments for brexit(FOM, freedom to strike any deal, no ECJ, freedom to unilaterally modify standards and labels,...), they don't match with membership of the EUCU or the SM because the latters mean that you are not alone, you make the conscious choice to share your market with others, it means that you need to share the decision making, you can't act unilaterally and others don't have to accept it which means that you need a common legislation and a common jurisdiction.
So even if the EU and the UK created a new organization, the relationship wouldn't be 1v1, the starting point would be 1v27 and from there you negotiate and persuade others to follow your proposal or refusal. You could mitigate that by using a prorated decision making process based on either economic or demographic data but it wouldn't be 1v1 like it seems a lot of people are imagining. I don't know if that last point has been discussed often.
I diverged a little bit but it's to make you understand that things are simple and complicated at the same time, Brexit is a simple concept but the future relationship and what is possible is a lot more complicated, it's all about UK's red lines.
Labour's position is equally as ridiculous as the Tories' position.
Other than staying in the EU there is only question
Is the UK either
1) staying in the CU and SM and maintaining the GFA (may as well stay in the EU) or 2) are they going to leave the CU/SM , break the GFA and erect a hard border in Ireland.
Answers on a postcard to the EU by the 28th June.
Other than staying in the EU there is only question
Is the UK either
1) staying in the CU and SM and maintaining the GFA (may as well stay in the EU) or 2) are they going to leave the CU/SM , break the GFA and erect a hard border in Ireland.
Answers on a postcard to the EU by the 28th June.
They don't, simple as that.
Corbyn has been anti eu since forever and is a man of principle, may does not believe in Brexit yet was voted in as PM, someone who does not believe in what she has been tasked to do. To say Corbyn is after staying in power is just mental, all he has to do is denounce Brexit and he's won the next election but he choses not to.
I'd much rather vote for a man of principle than a power hungry fake.
Penny for Barnier's thoughts.
The EU have sent him to negotiate with a bunch of loons.
What do we want?
We don't know!
When do we want it?
After an undefined period of transition!
....catchy, huh?
We don't know!
When do we want it?
After an undefined period of transition!
....catchy, huh?
He knows, @Paul the Wolf's video has an awkward moment in a meeting where you can feel the disdain from EU negotiators.
Rumour's circulating Davis could be resigning tomorrow. Inevitable, every single one of them are only in this until they can no longer credibly pretend they have any fecking clue what they're doing.
Surely that moment passed when DD lied to Parliament about the impact assesments.
Principle? Great, so we get the Brexit we don’t want but at least Jeremy stands by his principles. Yay..
Or you can have brexit by a remainer, your choice and you collectively voted for the latter. Well done.
May and Davis having a spat about the backstop plan that will be rejected by the EU.
Davis threatening to resign yet again, will he stay or will he go? Does the government stick with this moron or replace him with another moron, there's a long queue of morons waiting to be selected.
Davis threatening to resign yet again, will he stay or will he go? Does the government stick with this moron or replace him with another moron, there's a long queue of morons waiting to be selected.
May couldn't sack one of her cabinet members even if they took a dump on her.
Brexiteers slowly coming to the realisation that we are in the shits. This country is paralysed.
Quite some feat to come up with a border solution that requires more borders and a backstop solution that requires more backstops, all in the space of a week.
Edit: This is the document - just had chance to read all of it.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...hnical_note_temporary_customs_arrangement.pdf
The UK government are insane.
Go back and try again, and again, and again and again.....
Edit: This is the document - just had chance to read all of it.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...hnical_note_temporary_customs_arrangement.pdf
The UK government are insane.
Go back and try again, and again, and again and again.....
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Or you get the Brexit you don't want from someone that doesn't want it either, your choice, note that some people voted for this party and are getting just what they deserve.
Well at least things have moved on a bit today, Davis has won the battle to move quickly from a customs arrangement that hasn't been decided or agreed yet to a different customs arrangement that hasn't bee decided or agreed yet. Yaay, progress.
I'm not sure if they are insane, it reads like something written by someone that has no idea about what they are doing. The point (1) and (11) are shocking when you read them one after the other.
This isn't strictly true though is it? I've been checking back as I wasn't taking notice of UK politics at the time. The European Referendum Act 2015 for a non-binding referendum was passed by 544-53 votes - somehow don't think all those votes were Tories.
Was talking about General Election
They certainly don't know what they're doing and are definitely insane. Yes 1 and 11 are shocking, 17 18 and 19 are quite hilarious too. In fact there are too many strange ones. It's shocking that a major country is being run by people like this.
I know but if that act had been stopped it wouldn't have happened.
You already replied to that yesterday saying basically the same thing. I thought Brexiters didn’t believe in second chances to express an opinion?
Just to make it clear and see if we read the same thing. (1) says that the UK will leave the EUCU and the SM, (11) says that the UK proposes to share its custom territory with the EU by joining the EUCU or create a new custom Union that includes the UK. (17), (18) and (19) say that the UK wants to be part of the SM but also want to be able to strike their own deals and diverge from EU rules.
And the best of all, (23) the UK are perfectly happy with ECJ's positions.
Yes, agreed. None of it makes sense. They are still in cake and eat it mode and expect the EU to change the rules to suit the UK.
Almost 2 years from the referendum and the best the government can come up with is this drivel. Shameful.