Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Silva]

How is this likely to affect sectors like the NHS which largely depend on foreign workers coming in from the EU?

It's not just the big-ticket items like the NHS either. The agriculture industry is fecked, even if the government pulls its finger out and replaces EU subsidies, there's this: http://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/farm-tourism-jobs-cornwall-brexit-716108

 

[Cheesy]

It's not just the big-ticket items like the NHS either. The agriculture industry is fecked, even if the government pulls its finger out and replaces EU subsidies, there's this: http://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/farm-tourism-jobs-cornwall-brexit-716108

Yeah, I was more just referring to a sort of generalised, larger point because I'm admittedly only partly aware of the multitude of sectors that are going to be affected by this. Which means, of course, that the questions I mentioned above could probably be multiplied endlessly with an absurd number of questions regarding a range of sectors.

Of course, I'm not expecting every Brexit voters to know the ins and outs of every single sector, but I'd like to think they'd be able to discuss their own vision for a post-Brexit Britain, and how they expect that Britain to succeed. Because the problem is that this just hasn't been done; the Leave campaign itself was less of a coherent movement and more the varying and changing wish-fulfillment fantasies of people who either weren't in power and were seeking it, or people who weren't in power (Farage) and knew they'd never be in a position to change anything.

 

[Silva]

I don't agree, and we don't have a conservative majority in this parliament but Labour committed to leaving in the general election anyway so I don't see how you think things would end in us staying even if they were the majority. The only party committed to a second referendum and staying in the EU were trounced at the last general election.

I wasn't saying that labour would reverse course if they won tomorrow. Just that if we cancelled Brexit now (or in the near future through a referendum), there wouldn't be a 3rd or 4th under any party other than the conservatives. There's also little reason why we can't be given another referendum following the negotiations. Under the current timetable there are several months between the planned end of talks and implementation.

 

[711]

It won't be long until most leave voters die of old age.

I reckon after Brexit only the old with their accumulated wealth will be able to afford healthy food and medical care. It's likely today's 60 year-olds might still be around when their grandchildren have worked themselves to their impecunious deaths.

Personally I've got all my wealth in foreign assets. The poorer Britain gets and the futher the pound sinks the wealthier I will be. It's worked quite well the last twelve months anyway.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

So what’s your hopes and dreams when it comes to Brexit? What do you think you will have achieved when all is said and done?

My hope would be,

That we take our democracy more seriously in the future and think on occasion about other peoples lives and why they might disagree with our priorities and vote accordingly.

I know it is a forlorn hope these days.

 

[Pexbo]

My hope would be,

That we take our democracy more seriously in the future and think on occasion about other peoples lives and why they might disagree with our priorities and vote accordingly.

I know it is a forlorn hope these days.

Care to expand?

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Care to expand?

No, I think I made my point and I'm happy to leave it there.

 

[Silva]

I reckon after Brexit only the old with their accumulated wealth will be able to afford healthy food and medical care. It's likely today's 60 year-olds might still be around when their grandchildren have worked themselves to their impecunious deaths.

Personally I've got all my wealth in foreign assets. The poorer Britain gets and the futher the pound sinks the wealthier I will be. It's worked quite well the last twelve months anyway.

I wonder how they'll stay healthy with EU nurses no longer changing their catheters.

 

[Pexbo]

No, I think I made my point and I'm happy to leave it there.

No it’s just another one of those “I still have my reasons and I believe them and they are totally valid but I can’t tell you them” posts.

There’s literally not a single valid reason left other than isolationism. Every other proposed benefit has already been exposed either a bare faced lie or incredibly naive wishful thinking.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong and equally feel free to save your own time if your reply is going to be the usual evasive nonsense I’ve already dismissed above.

 

[711]

I wonder how they'll stay healthy with EU nurses no longer changing their catheters.

Millions of desperately poor British instead.

Maybe, as you hate the old so much, you could start some sort of guerilla action, and bomb the flu vaccine labs or something?

 

[Silva]

Millions of desperately poor British instead.

Maybe, as you hate the old so much, you could start some sort of guerilla action, and bomb the flu vaccine labs or something?

I don't hate the old, all power to them. I'm just pointing out their pending expiration and their recent bouts of self-harm in the voting booth. Even their party of choice is actively shortening their lives through the destruction of the NHS. While the wealthy are able to cut ahead of the queue, most older people aren't quite that lucky.

 

[711]

I don't hate the old, all power to them. I'm just pointing out their pending expiration and their recent bouts of self-harm in the voting booth.

Your posts say otherwise.

 

[sullydnl]

I have a lot of sympathy with the idea that we should think about other people's lives and why they might disagree with our own priorities.

The problem with applying that to Brexit is that many of those who voted to leave are likely to be disproportionately impacted by the downsides of leaving. It's one thing to have different priorities, it's another to have the same priorities but to also fundamentally misunderstand the effect leaving will actually have.

For example, the reality is that many of those who voted for Brexit in the hope a brighter economic future are going to be worse off post-Brexit. A deeper understanding of the nuances of their perspective won't change that, nor will arguing that their opinions are equally valid.

 

[Jippy]

Did anyone have any inkling of the scale of this class/age/regional divide pre-Brexit?
It's seriously damaged my relationship with my mother, but more broadly, both sides are now so bitterly entrenched...Put Moyes in charge of the Tories.

 

[Wibble]

My hope would be,

That we take our democracy more seriously in the future and think on occasion about other peoples lives and why they might disagree with our priorities and vote accordingly.

I know it is a forlorn hope these days.

WTF has that got to do with us leaving the EU?

 

[Wibble]

Did anyone have any inkling of the scale of this class/age/regional divide pre-Brexit?
It's seriously damaged my relationship with my mother, but more broadly, both sides are now so bitterly entrenched...Put Moyes in charge of the Tories.

One of the main reasons I left the UK in the early 90's.

 

[711]

Did anyone have any inkling of the scale of this class/age/regional divide pre-Brexit?
It's seriously damaged my relationship with my mother, but more broadly, both sides are now so bitterly entrenched...Put Moyes in charge of the Tories.

Was more aware of the political divide really. One or two here might remember me banging on for the best part of a decade about Europe splitting the Tory party, but I admit I saw that as affecting them more than seeing it split the country as it has.

Maybe I should have thought about Labour a bit more as well. I'm sure Corbyn and his 'wing' are as anti-Europe as they ever were, but they can't say that following the referendum result, and less so with the EU championing it's worker's rights during the British Left's years of exile.

 

[Sweet Square]

Did anyone have any inkling of the scale of this class/age/regional divide pre-Brexit?
It's seriously damaged my relationship with my mother, but more broadly, both sides are now so bitterly entrenched...Put Moyes in charge of the Tories.

I knew Brexit would happen as soon as the referendum was called(One of the only reasons I voted Labour during Ed Milbands time was because Labour were not offering the chance of referendum). Even though I'm a white guy I did immigrate to this country and yeah it's was pretty clear that it was happening.

As for the divide I don't there are that many Pro Brexit or Pro Remain people out there(Both have a very loud present on social media and in national newspapers). Most people 1)don't really care and 2)are too busy to care. Where there is a divide is that I don't think people(Upper middle class to the very rich)know the sheer scale of both poverty and suffering in this country. There's all sorts of examples to show the scale(Although a walk around London or a visit to the local hospital will be more than enough)but there are two things that really stick out

The first is this -

13% increase this year on three day emergency food supplies given to kids
https://www.trusselltrust.org/news-and-blog/latest-stats//

The second is Grenfell Tower. A tragedy(Although personally I would call it murder)that you expect to have seen in a Victorian history book.

This country is in a very deep crisis .

 

[Oscie]

Davis saying the only choice before Parliament will be take the deal (if reached) or leave with no deal. Surely Parliament can simply amend the bill and vote in a clause that adds the 'go back and negotiate' option.

 

[AshfordLad]

Davis saying the only choice before Parliament will be take the deal (if reached) or leave with no deal. Surely Parliament can simply amend the bill and vote in a clause that adds the 'go back and negotiate' option.

That sort of amendment most likely wont pass and if it did the Brexiters will more likely than not bring the govt. down.

 

[Barca84]

I knew Brexit would happen as soon as the referendum was called(One of the only reasons I voted Labour during Ed Milbands time was because Labour were not offering the chance of referendum). Even though I'm a white guy I did immigrate to this country and yeah it's was pretty clear that it was happening.

As for the divide I don't there are that many Pro Brexit or Pro Remain people out there(Both have a very loud present on social media and in national newspapers). Most people 1)don't really care and 2)are too busy to care. Where there is a divide is that I don't think people(Upper middle class to the very rich)know the sheer scale of both poverty and suffering in this country. There's all sorts of examples to show the scale(Although a walk around London or a visit to the local hospital will be more than enough)but there are two things that really stick out

The first is this -


The second is Grenfell Tower. A tragedy(Although personally I would call it murder)that you expect to have seen in a Victorian history book.

This country is in a very deep crisis .

This (although I'd widen that demographic to beyond just the upper middle class) I brought this up in this thread some time ago as I've spent many years working in some of the poorest and most disadvantaged communities in this country. The response, particularly from one particular poster, was appalling in it's disdain and contempt for those from these communities who voted, rightly or wrongly for change via Brexit. But then there is a rich seam of good old fashioned class hatred that runs deeply through the entire debate, this thread included, and for me this is the most poisonous legacy. I rarely venture in this thread here as it makes my blood boil.

 

[The Outsider]

A democracy is allowed to change it's mind. It doesn't mean that a majority of 2% can dictate for eternity. Especially a majority so decrepit it's dying minute by minute.

Not quite accurate as 1.5m foreign citizens can vote in our elections and over 700k are from Ireland. I don't like it and when I complained was told it dates back to 1922 and is the same in every election.
With England the most densely populated country in Europe (except very small entities like Malta) we have had enough.

 

[Pexbo]

Not quite accurate as 1.5m foreign citizens can vote in our elections and over 700k are from Ireland. I don't like it and when I complained was told it dates back to 1922 and is the same in every election.
With England the most densely populated country in Europe (except very small entities like Malta) we have had enough.

Had enough of what, specifically?

 

[The Outsider]

You'd only need one referendum and anything other than a conservative majority. It won't be long until most leave voters die of old age. The referendum wasn't a blowout, it was incredibly close. I find the supposed finality of it astonishing.

The people I know that voted for Brexit were in their 30s to 50s, I don't see them dying out too soon.

 

[Silva]

Not quite accurate as 1.5m foreign citizens can vote in our elections and over 700k are from Ireland. I don't like it and when I complained was told it dates back to 1922 and is the same in every election.
With England the most densely populated country in Europe (except very small entities like Malta) we have had enough.

Only British citizens are allowed to vote.

The people I know that voted for Brexit were in their 30s to 50s, I don't see them dying out too soon.

Statistical outliers.

 

[Kentonio]

Not quite accurate as 1.5m foreign citizens can vote in our elections and over 700k are from Ireland. I don't like it and when I complained was told it dates back to 1922 and is the same in every election.
With England the most densely populated country in Europe (except very small entities like Malta) we have had enough.

Who is we? I haven't had enough. As for 'densely populated' its not like the UK is a Blade Runner-like futuristic dystopia where everyone lives packed in like sardines ffs.

 

[Pexbo]

The people I know that voted for Brexit were in their 30s to 50s, I don't see them dying out too soon.

That’s anecdotal, the majority of 18 to 44 year olds voted remain, vice versa for 45+

 

[The Outsider]

Had enough of what, specifically?

Globalisation, overpopulation, new crime waves in the UK from people from foreign places.
Muslim gangs in prison targeting other criminals.
We should only be letting the right ones in and that is when we have sufficient housing.

 

[JPRouve]

Not quite accurate as 1.5m foreign citizens can vote in our elections and over 700k are from Ireland. I don't like it and when I complained was told it dates back to 1922 and is the same in every election.
With England the most densely populated country in Europe (except very small entities like Malta) we have had enough.

Sorry but can you clarify? Who are the foreign citizens that can vote and to which election?

 

[Silva]

Globalisation, overpopulation, new crime waves in the UK from people from foreign places.
Muslim gangs in prison targeting other criminals.
We should only be letting the right ones in and that is when we have sufficient housing.

Ah, gotcha. You're a daily express racist.

Foreigners are less likely to commit crimes than British born people.

 

[Pexbo]

Globalisation, overpopulation, new crime waves in the UK from people from foreign places.
Muslim gangs in prison targeting other criminals.
We should only be letting the right ones in and that is when we have sufficient housing.

Can you cite your sources on that please? Sounds like you’ve been listening to Dacre, Desmond, Golding and Robinson

There’s enough housing out there, it’s just in the wrong hands.

 

[Jippy]

One of the main reasons I left the UK in the early 90's.

It feels far, far worse now or maybe I'm just more conscious of it.

Was more aware of the political divide really. One or two here might remember me banging on for the best part of a decade about Europe splitting the Tory party, but I admit I saw that as affecting them more than seeing it split the country as it has.

Maybe I should have thought about Labour a bit more as well. I'm sure Corbyn and his 'wing' are as anti-Europe as they ever were, but they can't say that following the referendum result, and less so with the EU championing it's worker's rights during the British Left's years of exile.

It's been splitting the Tories since we joined, but yep, the sheer hatred and anger on the leave side is so strange. I guess we kind of know why, deep down.

 

[AshfordLad]

Only British citizens are allowed to vote.

No he is correct. Commonwealth nationals (Aussies, Kiwis, Indians, Pakistanis etc.) all can vote too.

 

[Silva]

No he is correct. Commonwealth nationals (Aussies, Kiwis, Indians, Pakistanis etc.) all can vote too.

Didn't know that. Weird.

 

[C3Pique]

Its all those Muslims from the EU's fault.

Nevermind that leaving the EU is actually likely to increase immigration from middle eastern and African countries.

 

[Jippy]

I knew Brexit would happen as soon as the referendum was called(One of the only reasons I voted Labour during Ed Milbands time was because Labour were not offering the chance of referendum). Even though I'm a white guy I did immigrate to this country and yeah it's was pretty clear that it was happening.

As for the divide I don't there are that many Pro Brexit or Pro Remain people out there(Both have a very loud present on social media and in national newspapers). Most people 1)don't really care and 2)are too busy to care. Where there is a divide is that I don't think people(Upper middle class to the very rich)know the sheer scale of both poverty and suffering in this country. There's all sorts of examples to show the scale(Although a walk around London or a visit to the local hospital will be more than enough)but there are two things that really stick out

The first is this -


The second is Grenfell Tower. A tragedy(Although personally I would call it murder)that you expect to have seen in a Victorian history book.

This country is in a very deep crisis .

That's certainly possible. I think people who haven't lived among the poor and disadvantaged are baffled as to how people can be that desperate, living in a G7 country. It's a difficult one- I've had spells on the dole after both my degrees and the money really was a pittance. Despite that, I knew some long-term unemployed back home in Hull/E. Yorks who just did feck all, smoking weed and playing Playstation all day with no intention of finding work. The media obviously extrapolates that to all benefits claimants, when the thought that raising kids on dole etc...is a doss is laughable.

 

[Bury Red]

Didn't know that. Weird.

Only those with indefinite leave to remain, so essentially those who have emigrated here and intend to stay. People from those commonwealth countries who share our cultural values and history so why would the Brexiteers object to them voting?

The rule was brought in back in the Windrush era to ensure those who arrived to make a new life in Britain and help us rebuild post war felt a part of the nation. I'm sure the Mail will list all the potential Angolans, Nigerians, Kenyans and Virgin Islanders who can vote but the simple fact is that we don't dish out indefinite leave to remain to Commonwealth citizens any more unless the person ticks multiple boxes in terms of qualifications, wealth etc.

It's BS and they know it but it can always be spun as yet another reason how the liberally biased system does down the poor, hard pressed British man.

 

[JPRouve]

No he is correct. Commonwealth nationals (Aussies, Kiwis, Indians, Pakistanis etc.) all can vote too.

If I'm not mistaken, they are not foreign citizens.

 

[AshfordLad]

Only those with indefinite leave to remain, so essentially those who have emigrated here and intend to stay. People from those commonwealth countries who share our cultural values and history so why would the Brexiteers object to them voting?

The rule was brought in back in the Windrush era to ensure those who arrived to make a new life in Britain and help us rebuild post war felt a part of the nation. I'm sure the Mail will list all the potential Angolans, Nigerians, Kenyans and Virgin Islanders who can vote but the simple fact is that we don't dish out indefinite leave to remain to Commonwealth citizens any more unless the person ticks multiple boxes in terms of qualifications, wealth etc.

It's BS and they know it but it can always be spun as yet another reason how the liberally biased system does down the poor, hard pressed British man.

No. They can start voting right after the land in the country.

If I'm not mistaken, they are not foreign citizens.

No, I am not talking about British subjects. Anyone with a commonwealth passport is allowed to vote.

 

[Silva]

https://www.theguardian.com/society...pean-nhs-doctors-plans-quit-uk-survey-reveals

A substantial amount of EU doctors plan on leaving the NHS.