Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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I'd have more sympathy with the anti-globalisation argument if it weren't for the fact that the chief Brexiters are all predominantly free-market types who were frothing at the mouth at the prospect of further deregulation etc. The EU's not perfect but if you're more pro-worker/left-wing then it's better than the current Tory mob.
Why are there no brits filling the huge vacancies we have in Holland throughout the hospitalty industry? Why are there even vacancies? Surely eastern europeans can do the job? Oh wait, just speaking English isn't enough.
Everything, and how on earth can you justify us in that sentence?
"and think on occasion about other peoples lives and why they might disagree with our priorities and vote accordingly." me
"One of the main reasons I left the UK in the early 90's." you
What is that 25 years not living in the Uk? but you think you know the country you gave up on and left as a lost hope so long ago as so irredeemably bad you had to leave because of your Nostradamus like ability to discern how much better the where ever the feck it is that you left for was going to be.
You make my point for me exactly.
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Very easy to see why Cameron resigned after leaving us in this mess.
What a bastard.
What a bastard.
"Everything" is that your final answer? Because if it is it sounds you don't actually have an explanation.
And I use us because I am British. Why do you think? I don't happen to live there at the moment, just as others in this thread don't, but believe it or not crossing the channel doesn't make you not British. I also care passionately about what happens to my country of birth and all my friends who live there still, and this bizarre act of self destruction will be an utter economic and social disaster for the country.
Seems like a rather ephemoral reason for such drastic action. I'm sure you must have had something a bit more concrete in mind.
"One of". Certainly not the only reason. Employment/study was an even bigger reason.
And you didn't need to be Nostrodamus to see that Australia was a better prospect than the UK in the very early 90's. 3 decades of continuous economic growth with no recession even during the GFC seem to have proven me right. And you know what? Australia would do almost anything to be part of such a powerful economic free trade area.
And yes. I still know the country well enough to have an informed position.
I've always hated the class bullshit that goes on in the UK. Still stuns me that right wing dog whistling works so well in the UK and gets huge swathes of voters to vote for people and policies that are harmful to them but for the betterment of the top end of town.
I doubt it. Although I can't be sure as I don't know what point you think you are making, as you aren't clear at all.
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Possible back tracking ?
No. Right of Abode means something else (and much detailed) with regards to UK immigration system. Commonwealth citizens even without right of abode can vote in the UK if they have a work/student/spouse visa.
Flat out wrong. Anyone from commonwealth who is legally resident (on any visa) can vote.
Wrong again and what does your comment even mean? Did I say if I was for it or against it? I don't really care either way but you seem awfully defensive even while clueless about these things.
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To be legally resident you need either indefinite leave to remain, or unlimited right of entry (ie a work visa, student visa etc) otherwise you are a tourist. Since 2003 they have progressively made it harder and harder to get either so it's not just like anyone from the Commonwealth can rock up and vote in our elections.
This is what always stuns me when a Tory govt is voted in and why I really really don't understand people complaining about brexit. People on the remain side should have no voice, every single voter had a chance to vote for a party not offering a referendum and they didn't take it. Remind me who the idiots are again?
No arguing they're idiots Stan but that's the way the UK elections have gone my entire voting life. It's largely down to the fact that people tend to believe the press lies and personal attacks that dominate the UK news stands with only the Guardian really staying on the left but keeping out of the mud slinging and even the Mirror flip flopping across the political aisle. When you look at the personal attacks that Kinnock, Foot, Brown, Miliband and Corbyn have had to weather compared with the way the press seem to bow down to Maggie, May, Cameron and even prats like Hague and Johnson you can see how the public might get a bit confused.
Thankfully it looks like Corbyn might get the chance to prove you don't need to be a tory in disguise like Blair to get Labour elected but sadly not before the current clown car has honked its horn and watched the wheels fall off the country as the idiots commanded.
@The Outsider
You can want to protect our borders from overcrowding without being a daily mail reading racist.
What those with genuine concerns regarding immigration need is it calmly explained to them that the very best foreign doctors ensure that we have the best healthcare in the world, as well as the fact that immigrants paying tax in this country ensures a higher standard of living for us all.
What they don't need is "you fecking dumb racist cnut, I hope you're happy".
You can want to protect our borders from overcrowding without being a daily mail reading racist.
What those with genuine concerns regarding immigration need is it calmly explained to them that the very best foreign doctors ensure that we have the best healthcare in the world, as well as the fact that immigrants paying tax in this country ensures a higher standard of living for us all.
What they don't need is "you fecking dumb racist cnut, I hope you're happy".
I feckin hope so but if they were to inherit a pile of shit then we'd be back on the merry go round.
That is just daft. Can you please go read the definition of what a visa means.
I thought the argument was that they were prepared to take a financial hit to their wallets to save the country from cultural appropriation.
After 13 years as an expat in 3 different Commonwealth countries with wife and step daughter with me I'm fairly clued up on the nuances of work visas, dependency visas, student visas and long term social visitors permits having jumped through the varying hoops multiple times.
It's you that needs to read up, especially as you're the one claiming any commonwealth citizen can waltz in and vote in a UK election. What point is it that you think I am missing?
Anyone been listening to radio 2 today? Some interesting correlations between out voters and sections of society
From what I understand the only commonwealth citizens that doesn't require a leave to remain are the ones that have a right to abode otherwise to qualify for british citizenship, commonwealth citizens are required to be UK residents and have leave to remain in the UK.
No. I said if they are on a resident visa. It does not have to be "indefinite" (as you states several times). I know a couple of guys at work who voted in the referendum having only come to the UK that summer on Tier2 visas. Also, my girlfriend who was on a Tier4 visa has voted in all the elections since she got here.
Anyway silly thing to argue about. As said earlier, I don't really have an opinion on whether they should have the vote or not. You just seem to assume I did while I was simply posting a correcting someone's post.
This is correct. The leave can be limited or Indefinite.
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Which is my point from the beginning, they are not foreign citizens but british citizens, the other poster was wrong.
Edit: Not british citizens but commonwealth citizens and subject to the crown.
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Yes but they think it only applies to German cars so the bloke in Hartlepool or Stoke-on-Trent on minimum wage has decided he won't be buying his brand new Merc after Brexit - problem solved.
I'm sure Asia would provide those parts if things cannot be amicably worked out with the EU.
From which supplier within which trade agreement? I'm pretty sure if sourcing it from Asia would be the better alternative folks at HONDA would be doing so...
I don't yet do have friends in the police.
Simpler to move the factory to the EU, no tariffs or delays - get the drift
Despite all the sabre-rattling from the increasingly desperate remainers, government majorities on all Brexit votes in Parliament.
Upholding a just-in-time based supply chain via cargo ships from Asia?
Legal issues are the least part of the story here. Sourcing from Asia would mean manufacturers would have to invest in those large storage facilities they got rid off due to just-in-time again. And with the investment on these facilities an according advance investment into actual stocks would have to be made, too. This would drive up manufacturing costs in the UK significantly just by itself, without even factoring in the tariff issue.
What he said.
Upholding a just-in-time based supply chain via cargo ships from Asia?
It's plenty doable. I work in Automotive manufacturing, we probably source 75% of our parts from China.
And how do you make that happen with 1hr-stock levels?
Any UK resident with UK address (including immigrants) can vote. It is not just British citizens, although they can vote from abroad.
No they can't, my French wife lived in the UK for 32 years and couldn't vote. The EU citizens in the UK couldn't vote in the referendum and the British citizens who had lived abroad more than 15 years couldn't vote either. I'm sure there are even more instances than that.
Edit: These are the people who are eligible to vote and in which elections:
https://www.yourvotematters.co.uk/can-i-vote/which-elections-can-i-vote-in
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If you import from China there will be tariffs and customs inspections which is what Honda wants to avoid nevermind the warehouse stocking and unknown delays of shipping times which are very long.
If you're operating a small business you may be able to do it, not for a just-in-time operation.
My error; thought they were referring to general elections.
Only commonwealth citizens. For eg. Americans cant vote and neither can EU nationals.
Bit over the top, but made me laugh.Do you really believe Honda have 1hour stock levels? They don't. JLR don't, VW don't, Ford don't, Magna don't, Draexlmaier don't.
Nonsense, everyone imports from China/Thailand/etc (Asia). We're a 4bn euro company so I wouldn't class us as small.
We buy components from China, we ship finished product to China. I don't know the details regarding tariffs as it's not my department but it's obviously sustainable.
Oh for a crystal ball. On the YouGov website, Chris Curtis wrote a piece based on the most recent polls, including the dateset above. It shows a majority (of all voters) seeing Brexit as a bad idea. 16 months out from the referendum, a record high of 47% thought Britain was wrong to vote leave the EU, and a record low of 42% still approve. But that is not the same as saying they want to reverse the decision. The polls also show an impressive 52% majority saying that having embarked on this, after a referendum, it should be seen through. But interestingly, the trend between June and September is that voter conviction regarding the merits of Brexit (and 'going ahead')is weakening steadily. He doesn't put it that way, but the implication is clear; were this trend to be maintained, Brexit is doomed.
As we get further and further away from the referendum itself more people might start to think it is legitimate to try to stop Brexit, and eventually there could be a majority that want to stop Brexit.
But for the moment the public still believe that Brexit means Brexit.
Chris Curtis
But for the moment the public still believe that Brexit means Brexit.
Chris Curtis
A poster called Litigation Magnet replied. They are all fired up on a TM conspiracy theory, based on May's reluctance to publish financial reports on the impact of leaving the EU. This epic shows Theresa May in a double bluff worthy of Le Carre, risking her political life to Take One for the (Remain) Team.
She may want to build up a huge demand to see (the 58 Brexit impact assessments) simply because they are negative. After all it is David Davis who is the patsy for negotiations failing. Theresa May has the power to withdraw the article 50 notice - whatever Brexiteers may say. True she would be fired, but it would still be withdrawn and they'd have to start again. An election would be a certainty. The more pressure she can create the safer she is. If she wants to stay in the EU she needs another referendum, but would have to be sure of a remain vote. So creating distrust and suspicion that it will be really, really bad will play to that. Especially if she has to disclose the reports after a court order, perhaps after the December meeting goes bad. Especially if they are predicting catastrophe. By then the Universal Credit crunch will have crushed the white van men who voted Leave; they'll blame Brexit and the Tories. The nearer to the deadline Theresa May gets, the more power she has by controlling the option to withdraw the article 50 notice.
I don't think they'll get a deal they can get through Parliament and there will be another referendum after she has indeed withdrawn the article 50 notice.
I don't think they'll get a deal they can get through Parliament and there will be another referendum after she has indeed withdrawn the article 50 notice.
The writer does not predict the outcome of the second referendum, only that this model of events holds the potential to avert catastrophe. Is this the shadow of the future coming at us out of the fog, or a mirage, nothing more than a drowning Remainer fantasy?
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Yet some people from Malta can vote, though not sure who and why.