I was fishing for a witty or clever reply I must admit. Still a few hours of the day yet though.
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I was fishing for a witty or clever reply I must admit. Still a few hours of the day yet though.
You want to live in a dictatorship? Someone like May and whoever in government have no right to be anywhere near these negotiations if everything was above board. Government are meant to represent the people. Not dictate too the people.
No, just a representative democracy.
How did you get that from my post?
Yeah it's no surprise that the people in video were all old.
Not before they 'educate' their kids.
The country will never be rid of moronic stupidity.
There was a time when we could have changed the financial industry and moved away from our reliance on them. It was around 2008-2009 when the whole system collapsed, and before we spent countless billions bailing them out. It might have led to an even worse situation, but it was an option.
Sabotaging them now though AFTER the money has been spent and they're back to being a hugely profitable part of the national economy is just braindead. We don't have the money (or the political appetite) for vast new investment in other fields, so by hurting the city we're just going to ensure there's less money available for public services.
Its debatable because all we are currently doing is paying the interest on the debt and that is as you say with the banks being profitable, except of course RBS. RBS is one of the banks getting money from the NHS via PFI.
Don't forget Cameron had to use the veto, the first time we have ever done that to stop the Tobin tax being implemented.
So if the Banks move to the EU and Britain leaves will the EU then impose the Tobin tax?
Good old Gordon Brown, first he stopped Blair taking us into the Euro and then he rescued the Banks after the collapse, but then an ungrateful Country voted him out of office... such is Political life!
Wonder how much it will cost this time with Theresa's offer 'to pay her way' to the agreement she wants over Brexit? Macron's saying £20B not enough, Merkel is still 'going blind' into the next round of bidding, but will Angela get side-tracked trying to form a government in Berlin and overplay her hand?
Still think Theresa will 'up the ante' until she gets what she wants, then fall on her sword, can't see any other way forward now... except of course the Cliff Edge!
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Ante.
The cliff edge really is in no-one's interest, so hopefully there is some sort of (unfavourable) fudge of a deal put in place or an extension of some sort.
Wouldn't be that surprised if that doesn't happen though, which could well result in economic carnage.
Yes, maybe, but you get the feeling the Elephant in the room has been acknowledge at least!
If we both go over the cliff, we all finish up in a crumpled mess on the beach
Britain can go, it can have its 'trade deal', its freedoms, its laws, etc. but its got to pay and pay handsomely, so that nobody else will be tempted to buy their way out!
The casualty in Britain will be Theresa, any payments certainly just to get out will be viewed as 'surrender' by many brexiteers, the fact that we remain able to trade with the EU even if we are no longer part of it, will placate all but the must ardent re-moaners. May will fall on her sword and make way for a new Tory leader, if anyone wants the job!
In the EU, I would assume Juncker's card has been marked, also perhaps Tusks, doubt if they will 'fall on their swords' but they will be dispatched anyway, for letting it get to this position.
All's well that ends well... now where have we heard that before?
Sounds like a shit scenario. Thought you were actually in favour of Brexit?
Yes I am, but politics is the art of the possible. The 'cliff edge' is not possible for either side no matter how they rattled their sabres and they know it.
Britain has a majority for out, so we go. Remainers want a good deal to remain trading with the EU, so we're out of the EU but with more or less the same trading deal as before, its just going to cost around £60B to £100B probably paid over a decade. The price has to be high to deter others from leaving!
There is no other sane way out for any of the politicians. May has to be sacrificed when she's done the deal, not before, that's what she's telling Merkel and Macron right now, "I'm laying down my political life, now don't let me down, do the deal"!
No reason for Merkel or Macron to yield. The so-called 'divorce bill' is purely what we committed to in the last five year plan, not a pay-off as such.
Does it not concern you that the five biggest business confederations -CBI, BCC etc- are today virtually begging for a transition or at least guidance?
The English. These days, if you say you're English...
UK's biggest car group profits just dropped 20% in Q3. Smells like the start of a recession to me.
Then we all go over the cliff together!
My perception is there will be a financial settlement, some of it will count as a bill for commitments, some will be a pay-off as you say, it will all be cobbled in language that allows both sides to claim some sort of victory. At the moment Britain seems to be offering £20B for 'the bill', Macron (not Merkel) has said its not enough by half so its assumed he's talking around £40-£50B. I suspect Theresa will signal to go up to £60B, so when Merkel shows her hand she will demand a £100B and they will settle about £70-80B. Britain leaves but still gets its trade deal, the EU gets the money and the cliff edge is avoided.
What else would you expect the CBI, BCC etc. to say, 'yes go on rush over the cliff edge'?
Is it moronic stupidity to want to protect the countries resources and jobs?
It won't just be a leaving bill. It will be a leaving bill, plus on-going commitments for however long any transition period is, plus payments to any European projects the UK wants to continue to be a part of beyond the transition. The European Medicines Agency being the easiest / most obvious example. The UK is clearly not going to set up its own medicines regulator within the next 17 months, and probably not within the next 3 years (and why would it want to?). So the UK's only other option will be to pay for the EU's services.
Juncker and Tusk are negotiating to a schedule and guidelines that have been agreed by all other EU member states. They are not 'marked' or 'fall guys'.
Finally, I struggle to see how this situation appeases ANYONE. The average Leaver is probably blind enough to reality to think that the catastrophes it prevents are not real threats anyway, and so they will just be angry at the size of both the settlement and the ongoing contributions. If you voted Remain it is just a spectacularly dumb course of action to have chosen. Poorer, no longer having a say in the rules of the UK's largest export market, diminished on the world stage, etc. What are the benefits?
Did you listen to the video?
The Uk are boasting that the unemployment level is at it's lowest level ever - I wonder what the unemployment level will be like when businesses start closing down.
Which resources would they be, the Uk imports far more than it exports and if the pound sinks again the prices will rocket.
Of course 99% of foreigners are criminals and why haven't they all gone home yet? Moronic.
But but..Nothing to do with xenophobia we're being told..
People are getting exposed in this country big time for that they truly are.
What resources does the UK have that need protecting from the EU?
You've got to admit, it takes some serious mental gymnastics to believe "they" are (1) taking our jobs, (2) work shy scroungers and (3) all in prison.
You know these prison jobs that every Brit is looking to get into to replace the lazy feckers are being denied by hierarchical prisoners structure made of foreigners only who are having none of that.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I voted remain, but I think painting anyone who voted leave for reasons of immigration as a moronic racist is part of the reason many dug their heels in.
I didn't mention the word racist, not everyone is but they've been spoonfed endless drivel and nonsense by the RW press, racists like Farage and politicians with their own personal agenda and they're too stupid to realise they've been lied to. It's pure ignorance and the people who've fed them it know they'll lap it up. Xenophobia and racism also come from ignorance.
Even away from the xenophobic aspect, one woman said she noticed everything was getting more expensive, well there's a surprise, she hasn't seen anything yet.
I would agree with you but for one reason, you only need to see the way people express themselves when talking immigration as evident by that video.
Which ties into my earlier post. Should this have even been opened up to the public vote in the first place? How can the average man begin to understand the implications, when even those who do read up about it struggle to form an accurate viewpoint?
I just think there's a lot of people very concerned about a Britain which increasingly fails to resemble the one they identify with. Multi-cultural, multi-lingual, politically correct, and I think a lot of leave voters decided to protest this with their vote. Which means that the entire referendum was doomed from the start.
Sure, they'll die off soon and that'll be problem solved. But we can't exactly reverse what their decision left us with.
In other words, that is the definition of xenophobia. I do see where you're coming from and agree on what made them vote this way too and not blaming them for that. Just stating the fact that the xenophobia become very evident and you just reiterated that with your own words.
It clearly shouldn't have been put to a referendum for the reason you outlined, or at least not without a supramajority requirement for changing the status quo. That video (which is not untypical of towns across the North) is why Leave won - with the overwhelming support of the press, they were able to distill their message in a way which appealed to people's fear and disorientation with the modern world - and why "Project Fear" lost (people were already afraid and were persuaded by the siren, nostalgic voice of "take back control").
I agree with you wholeheartedly - if the outcome was based on the opinion of the MPs the outcome would have been overwhelmingly in favour of Remain and even then it's quite clear that even the MPs don't understand the implications - so then what.
If the Uk does leave off a cliff-edge and all the predictions do come true over the period of a few years, what happens then, do the government say sorry, we made a mistake, can we rejoin please.
And if it doesn't leave off a cliff-edge, it means that other than in name it is still part of the EU.
Whichever of the two happens, it's not going to be what anyone really wants.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/...ungen-ohne-qualen-geht-es-nicht-15257859.html
hahahaha we're fecked
hahahaha we're fecked
This government will go down as the least competent in at least 40-50 years. The scary part for Brits is, that May looks okay if we compare her to Johnson or Davis.
I start to wonder if they sit in front of a empty page of paper for over a year now, trying to figure out what to do.
May: "Any ideas?"
Boris: "let's be tough! French panties, Italian wine and German cars need our market. Ha"
Davis: "no deal is great" *lalalalalalal*
May: "......." *Cries*
I start to wonder if they sit in front of a empty page of paper for over a year now, trying to figure out what to do.
May: "Any ideas?"
Boris: "let's be tough! French panties, Italian wine and German cars need our market. Ha"
Davis: "no deal is great" *lalalalalalal*
May: "......." *Cries*
I agree. But I also think there's a difference, and xenophobia isn't the same as outright racism. Which is why these people don't like being told they're racist, because I genuinely don't think they are. Xenophobic? Definitely.
Yep, I also think another factor was people wanted to shake things up. Did you see the video from the days after the result broke? People who voted leave were stunned they actually won. They genuinely didn't think we would leave, but on some level it was new and exciting and they wanted to see the fallout I guess. The same might be said for Trump voters. They also said they would vote to remain if given another chance. These are the people who narrowly decided that the other 48% of the country would be dragged out of Europe against their will.
I hope so. I honestly think if they held another referendum next month, we'd see a massive majority for remain (and not just because a lot of leavers will have died off since last June). I don't think people realised what they were voting for until it was too late to go back, which again is another point about the electorate not being fit to decide I guess. Is there a theme emerging in my posts?
