They showed weakness to a German visitor. When you use your veto you stand by your veto, you dont cave. They will regret it.It's exactly about what you wrote, they vetoed because they had grievances and said grievances have been listened and answered with a few additions in CETA. If I were you, I would have used the fact that a bunch of farmers showed more sense than the suits in Brussels but that's only me.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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They vetoed for a particular reason and they got that particular reason fixed. Your point makes no sense, they didn't veto for the sake of it.
Ok, take away the EU and what happens to those same situations? Do each individual country open up their arms and welcome in the refugees? Do they all stop selling arms? I'm not sure where you get 'provoking wars' from in relation to the EU the first place, but its not like the UK and France in particular have ever not sold arms wherever they could turn a profit or indeed provoked plenty of wars of their own in the past.
You want better than that? Sure, don't we all. I'd also like a unicorn and a leprecaun bringing me a pot of gold each day, but realistically lifes a bitch. The EU is making Europe less of a violent hellhole than it was for most of the last 2 thousand years. Despite that, apparently any progress isn't good enough, and every bad thing has to be laid at its door as if it wouldn't be a hundred times worse without it being there.
I just don't get it.
Its the subsidies that nark me the most, we'll compensate for any loss in revenue due to this trade deal. Fuk me, does it ever stop? Maybe they will use uk cash to sunsediseIt's exactly about what you wrote, they vetoed because they had grievances and said grievances have been listened and answered with a few additions in CETA. If I were you, I would have used the fact that a bunch of farmers showed more sense than the suits in Brussels but that's only me.
I am opening an online store selling tinfoil hats on the basis of the last few pages.
Its the subsidies that nark me the most, we'll compensate for any loss in revenue due to this trade deal. Fuk me, does it ever stop? Maybe they will use uk cash to sunsedise
That's not what it is though, it's about the right to do it without Canada's say and it's not about this trade deal either.
I don't know what that's a parody of but it's really very good.
C'mon, listen to yourself.
Well, in Barcelona it was a demonstration of 160.000 asking more refugees 1 year ago. Anyway I know what you mean, is not only the EU but the states themselves. But that is why you can choose to be in that organization. Is difficult to choose which state you are born.
EU is doing a less violent place? mmm, less violent in Europe maybe? or is the world progressing? there is less violence in Asia, Latinamerica, commerce treaties helps? yes but it does not need to be an integration like EU. But look at middle East? or Africa? Why threaten your nice life in Europe with a war waging with it when you can live peacefully in Europe and have the war somewhere else? (and I repeat, this is a state matter, not EU)
But what it is a EU matter is the refugee problem that his states individually provoked and paying turkey to make them stay there, pay criminals to sink rescue NGO boats, turn around the boats and put them in miserable places...and paying for it.
But another bad part (not the worse because there are no worse things that these bad actions) is the hypocrisy of Europe boasting and trying to sell an image of having morals and highes standards than anyone else, by instance the US. This despicable hypocrisy while they are doing what they do
And sorry to want better
We are in the hands of duplicitous morons, they can't even lie well.
Davis on asked about the impact statements: Making them public would give the EU a price list of things to push us on, and anyway, economic models are always wrong.
Davis 5 minutes later: We predict Belgium would lose 4 to 5% of its GDP if we exited with no deal.
So economic models work after all then? And we can predict what the effect will be in the EU, but they are incapable of doing the same so we must keep it secret?
He also, at one point, referred to Czechoslovakia as a current EU member.
Fecking imbeciles in charge of our future.
Davis on asked about the impact statements: Making them public would give the EU a price list of things to push us on, and anyway, economic models are always wrong.
Davis 5 minutes later: We predict Belgium would lose 4 to 5% of its GDP if we exited with no deal.
So economic models work after all then? And we can predict what the effect will be in the EU, but they are incapable of doing the same so we must keep it secret?
He also, at one point, referred to Czechoslovakia as a current EU member.
Fecking imbeciles in charge of our future.
Good to see you are on to the NWO which aims to trash all national customs and impoverish the majority while the chosen few control everything via their Techtronic devices - next gen of Smart (I guess). Those that won't be controlled well they will send their useful idiots from another country likely very poor people from Rumania, Albania to do their dirty work and of course the CCTV won't be working or requisitioned immediately by the authorities never to be seen again.
wut?..
The Holy Roman Empire will suffer a great deal because of Brexit. I hope Charles V remembers whose his Aunt is and act accordingly.
Which criminals are being paid by the EU to sink NGO rescue boats. Please provide some evidence of this claim.
As for your wider point, sorry but its ridiculous. You don't think there's anything worse than what is happening right now? You think a bit of moral hypocrisy means that something can't be an overall positive? Look at the US, look at what they do around the world, how they treat other countries and how they treat their own citizens. Then compare that to the EU, and tell me exactly why you think the EU is worse.
It's one thing to 'want better' and another to sit and throw stones at basically the most morally positive union of countries we've yet seen on the planet. You want better? Cool, join the EU bodies and work to make them better. Or alternatively please explain how you're ever going to get anything better without this kind of starting point of international cooperation.
Immigration is an extremely complex problem which got plenty fingers stuck in the pie. That include
a- corrupt nations who encourage their own citizens to leave (illegally) knowing fully well that those who survive the ordeal will bring money back to the country. These same countries refuse their citizens back even though they aren't considered refugees
b- human traffickers who dupe people to take this route, offering an eldorado that doesn't exist and giving them instructions on what lies to say to remain in Europe. Most of these traffickers are involved in terrorism and organized crime
c- transit countries who are very persuasive in convincing people to go North unless there's good money for them to do their job appropriately
d- NGOs whose got quite a good business going on ferrying immigrants to Europe. Some of which are being investigated of being best buddies with the traffickers themselves.
e- Countries who don't mind causing wars and making money out of a lucrative weapons business but expect others to foot the bill for their own mistakes
f- Other countries who profit from causing instability and working with dictators.
g: The RCC who keeps criticising Europe on its immigration plan but has yet to open its Vatican doors for them.
All of this happen while the toothless beaurocratic useless UN is watching. The same organization who allowed Saudi Arabia to be elected in the UN women's rights commission. :sarcasm: Its a shame Hitler isn't alive as they might have elected him as head of the anti semitism committee :/sarcasm:
So I suggest you stop blaming Europe too much especially since immigrants are risking their lives to go to Europe and not to escape from it. Europe is not perfect but its the least of all villians. We could shed crocodile tears while making sure that immigrants wont step anywhere close to our state country as pope francis does or we could do worse by duping immigrants to come here, make a quick buck out of them and then make it dangerously impossible for them to stay or alternatively we can cause wars and sell weapons to regimes only to hide behind treaties (Dublin 2) and 'Muslim' bans. Most European countries don't do that.
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David Davis: Britain could be forced to settle for 'bare bones' Brexit deal
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...ttle-for-bare-bones-brexit-deal-a3667406.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...ttle-for-bare-bones-brexit-deal-a3667406.html
That movie with the anchorman and his rant about the cost of oil?
Theres a lot more to WHO rules than just tariffs. Tariffs are the least of it. No bilateral trade deal would mean any item certified under British standards like BSI would not be recognised / certified as they entered EU. Items would then be subject to retesting in every jurisdiction they passed into. It would be a nightmare for exporters. Goods being held up in customs for a fortnight while your business sweats it out because you have to realise sales. Who wants to buy from a British company when lead times are blown out by a week or two? I'm worried because I was planning to move to the UK late next year with my missus who is English, I'm Irish, and it will cause a massive strain on our relationship if Britain is going down the tubes when we're going back... I don't know what the feck is going to happen and it seems like your politician's are completely out of their depth.
https://www.worldcrunch.com/migrant...-warlord-help-europe-solve-the-migrant-crisis
http://www.trtworld.com/magazine/the-kingpin-of-libyas-human-trafficking-mafia-301505
And several more
Yes, I look at the US and yes, I don't like many things that I don't like. That is why I don't like the direction that EU is going with for example CETA and the secrecy with the TTIP, privatization of health care in certain countries and announcing in every country more and more that in the future will not be public pensions. Instead of improving, we are getting worse
Join EU bodies? I tried to join a local political party that I liked his program. And just for starters they asked me already to do things that I didn't like because it meant to sell myself from starters. How I can do better? vote, protest, my consumer habits
International cooperation is good. No doubt about it. The problem is when such organization, that cooperation is to protect big corporations instead of their citizens, and yes, it happens at state level, no doubt about it, but EU do not change the picture, so why be part of it? lets do and economic union with the 4 Freedoms a few more regulations and the rest leave it to bilateral agreements. I have the sensation that more integration would be towards the interests of just a few
Don't get me wrong, EU has undoubtedly very strong points, union makes us stronger against the big powers and blocks. And frankly, being Spain inside, makes that they have to control themselves a bit with their population, but frankly, I do not know what other countries, more democratic, wants in the EU beside economic reasons
I absolutely agree with all the points you make but sorry, I will not stop blaming Europe even if some others have more to blame, basically because I am a european citizen and even if now I don't leave there, I did and I pretend to live there again, so I am asking accountability of EU actions. I can't ask accountability for a,b,c, d (not directly but yes indirectly through my country/EU), e (same as d), f, g . So yeah, I will keep criticizing rather than praise the shitstorm that they provoked in Syria, directly or indirectly, like in Spain that increased 400% selling arms with Saudi Arabia (thanks to the kings contacts and business) and then, the King and the government goes to a demonstration for peace after the terrorist attack from ISIS in Barcelona last August. And this for every single state. And the EU, that has so many rules that affects production (like agriculture) or regulations of what or where to sell certain products, do not do anything about it but complains about the refugees that generates directly or indirectly. So why we need the EU in humanitarian matters? international cooperation and budgetary can be don't through other organizations like the RCC or the UN, that for this matter are exactly the same
That's fair enough. However unless we don't protect ourselves we'll end being the muggers who taking all the immigrants while others (countries of origin, transit countries, organized crime, asylum seekers, the RCC, NGOs etc) are cashing all the money. May I remind you that
a- Most asylum seekers are economic immigrants. In fact refugees are a tiny proportion of those coming into Europe. The vast majority are failed asylum seekers who come to Europe knowing very well that Europe can't deport them (As their country won't have them back). Also a big chunk of them lack the skills or the attitude to settle down. They live on benefits and can be quite picky too. I've seen immigrants throwing food at the police, burning clothes because they arent 'highly fashionable' and causing riots because they deem that mobile phone top ups aren't appropriate for their needs. I guess if you pay for the platinum package then you expect the very best.
b- Europe cannot keep taking unlimited amounts of immigrants year in year out especially since a big chunk of them lack the skills/attitude to settle down and be productive. Open borders with no questions asked helped a great deal to increase crime and terrorism in Europe.
Also note that if Malta is at war then I would ask refuge to a European country. Why on earth should an immigrant travel one country to another, sometimes even crossing entire continents, to come to Europe? Why can't Africa, Asia, the Middle-east etc deal with their own problems as we do? After all these are countries whose got way more resources then we do.
So while I do think Europe can do better on this regard. I also think that we're not the biggest villians in the story. After all immigrants are coming to Europe not escaping it.
Honestly Id rather see Europe invest in the countries of origin while applying a zero tolerance attitude to illegal immigration. That will hit the illegal traffickers and help the people who are in real need (ie not the ones who are young/fit/rich enough to finance traffickers that allow them to travel half a continent to come to the eldorado)
Anyone who was born at the borders of Europe knows exactly what a big scam this illegal immigration thing is. For years we only had an endless stream of young males, strong enough to eat the likes of prime Vidic and Keane for breakfast with 1 token heavily pregnant woman on each boat (placed there to facilitate entrance to Europe)
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Europeans lack the skills and attitude to settle down and be productive in Europe?
Eh? Have I missed something?
This thread has gone seriously weird over the last two pages (and I don't mean our resident Catalan). Anyway, back to controlling the plebs with my smartphone...
More evidence in parliament today of the UK government being unified and on top of things today with Davis and May contradicting each other on the not insignificant question of whether there will be a vote in parliament on the deal reached with the EU.
More evidence in parliament today of the UK government being unified and on top of things today with Davis and May contradicting each other on the not insignificant question of whether there will be a vote in parliament on the deal reached with the EU.
Did you actually read your own links? The EU is having to try and support the Libyan coastguard to prevent people smugglers, and has no say over who controls that coast guard. If some local warlord goes off reservation, is that the EU's fault? What would the alternative be? Don't support the Libyans, and instead let tens of thousands of people potentially drown at sea or be trafficked by people smugglers who may very well sell them off into sexual slavery, or indentured labour at the other end?
This is exactly what I'm talking about. The EU are forced to choose between several shitty options, and then people like yourself accuse them of being responsible for the shitty option they had to choose. What SHOULD they do? What would you have done if you were in the EU leadership?
The TTIP thing sure, I'm right there with you. How is the other stuff down to the EU though? Hell even TTIP is only going through because the governments of each country actually want it. I'm not sure how any of its specifically an EU issue.
No matter how idealistic the EU parliament is (and it often is), the member states governments are always going to determine current direction. The reason I respect it though is because the EU itself tries to be more. It tries to encourage morality and equality and fraternity, and sets out hugely ambitious goals for the future of Europe. It doesn't always meet those goals, and maybe it never will, but personally I'd sure as hell rather be a part of a union that actually wants those things and works towards those things even if it falls short, than just a member state that doesn't really care about much more than maintaining a healthy economy for the next election.
Im referring to asylum seekers who come to Europe.
I agree, the harm is already done. What I am asking is for more regulation in selling arms and which wars where you can intervene in the future and to stop the hypocrisy to "why I have to take care of the refugees?" well, because your government did sell arms and wage on war and received money from that, and you are enjoying that money with public services. IN that sense, Germany did it decently, they received a big amount of immigrants and more important, the majority of the population accepted them as a decent human beings. Countries like Poland or Hungary and Spain don't do their share, and they enjoy EU advantages too.
About your points:
a) that is why triage exist
b) sort of agree
I don't agree much in closed borders. I am European for sheer luck, why I have more right to have a job than another that was born in a shit country for sheer unluck? I believe while a person can be productive, should be allowed and instead of punishing illegal workers, they should punish the company that hires them. But I recognize is a sketchy topic and clashes with the whole system and the collapse of it, but as a person that migrated and worked in several countries (some temporary others more seriously and even been mildly deported (as it was backpacking and I am a happy happy privileged first world countryman), I think immigration should be controlled for who you are and you do but not from where you are
Yes I did, and the coastguards are well known warlords and smugglers themselves and the EU knows. Don't get me that the EU is tricked by them. The problem is that when this coastguards bring them back, they sell them again to the smugglers or directly as slaves and sexual slaves. And the EU pays the boat, the gas and the guns. I definitely think that EU should take better care of the refugees and migrants from a country (and area) that they disistabilized
Mate, they are earning money, Is their feckING job to sort this things out, not me that is the one that pays (repeat, not anymore for now) I would do things differently, but of course I would not arrive at that levels of power with my ideas
I think I told you, States are as much responsible, but if the EU is useless in that matter, why we need it?
And I agree in all that, that is why we have to be critics and speaking in forums and sharing our disconformity to push ideas as a connected community and keep ourselves informed
There are very good things in EU, but very bad too. In my opinion I expect way more from the EU to want further integration in it.
So we're falling back on the bloke down the pub answer of 'not my job mate'? What if there isn't a good choice to make? Why do we assume that there's always a magical food option out there just waiting to be found?
Ah ok, but then that's not unlimited amounts as you posted.
Look I am all in favour of that, although rest assured that if Europe stepped out, then others will step in and Saudi will get weapons from elsewhere (China? Russia? US? UK?). What we need is pressure on a global level ie were these regimes will turn their heads around and find no help at all. We can only achieve that if
A- Europe (whose not perfect but is still the good guy here) is influential enough to influence the other blocs
B- The other blocs co-operate
Hence why I am so pro Europe
Regarding illegal immigration I assure you its a massive scam. Most immigrants aren't even refugees but asylum seekers. For years Malta received an endless stream of young males, strong enough to eat the likes of prime Vidic and Keane for breakfast with 1 token heavily pregnant woman on each boat. It seems 'war' doesn't effect women, children and elderly people. I've got mates at immigration and they tell you that most come to Europe with the same copy and paste sob story (they know what to say to remain) and knowing fully well that Europe can't send them back (no repatriation deal in those, perfectly safe, countries. )
Don't take me wrong, this is a European problem and its unfair for us, Spain, Greece, Italy and co to nanny hordes of immigrants all by ourselves. However I can see why other European countries don't want to be involved into it, especially since its stinks of a scam from miles away.
Honestly I like how the EU is handling things.
a- it is investing in the countries of origin thus helping the people who are truly in need (not just the ones who are strong/rich enough to travel half a continent)
b- its applying zero tolerance towards the trafficker's route.
Sure Libya, Turkey and co may not treat immigrants as well as they should do. There again its also up to the police of the world, the UN (it supposed to do something right?) and the rest of the world (including the African Union) to do something about that. If I am in Saudi Arabia and I get mistreated then I won't blame the Canadian government because of it. I would blame the SA government + Malta's government for not doing enough to protect me.
From official EU/Maltese/Italian government report There are millions of immigrants waiting to leave Libya and that number is increasing every day.
That's such a shocking attitude. If you don't know yourself how to do something better, best not comment/criticise on it I'd say. If you feel that strongly about it and need to comment, research deeper.
Millions isn't unlimited in a World of 7 billion and increasing every day.
But is absolutely a right answer. I gave some answers previously, if you make lazy questions I will make lazy answers. I said it before. I would regulate and even prohibit the selling of arms at some countries (I would prohibit to any country, but you know is not possible). That is a simplified answer. Then localized projects. If they have the guts to military strike in foreign soil, I don't see what not to organize a invading humanitarian force, and yes, feck sovereignty. Or you are enough an asshole to military strike, be enough an asshole to invade for humanitarian reasons. Anyway, as you can understand, I would not reach anything near the power...maybe as a ranting bloke in a bar that someone like you might listen to say " but what you would do"?
Answered above. Lazy questions (as I already at least hinted what I would do) deserves lazy questions)
But is absolutely a right answer. I gave some answers previously, if you make lazy questions I will make lazy answers. I said it before. I would regulate and even prohibit the selling of arms at some countries (I would prohibit to any country, but you know is not possible). That is a simplified answer. Then localized projects. If they have the guts to military strike in foreign soil, I don't see what not to organize a invading humanitarian force, and yes, feck sovereignty. Or you are enough an asshole to military strike, be enough an asshole to invade for humanitarian reasons. Anyway, as you can understand, I would not reach anything near the power...maybe as a ranting bloke in a bar that someone like you might listen to say " but what you would do"?
You want to invade Libya for humanitarian purposes? Kill them to save them kind of thing? Because last I checked, invading someone doesn't generally make their citizens feel like you're the good guys.
As for lazy questions, I don't see why its lazy. You're castigating the EU for their choices, so its not unreasonable to ask you what they should have done instead.
I said that if you have the guts of military strike for your greedy and geostrategically purposes and destabilize a regime without knowing how the hundreds of clans works, have the guts to invade to bring humanitarian relieve. But is not the point, the point is that I would not even start. As when in Irak, international observers they were doing a good job controlling any weapons of mass destruction, but mr bushy went full force with lies and started all the mess (starting in Afghanistan with UK and less degree Spain and later on all the west) that we are in today. Instead of working from the inside with local forces to overthrown the regime, but is way more slow and of course, there is no money money money on it.
The lazy questions is because I already said not to sell arms to countries like finance Saudi Arabia and the likes, is reasonable if I did not say anything before hand. If you are lazy to read what I say I will be lazy to answer your questions too. Basically because I am at work
. So at home I can extend myself
Settle down lad, current affairs threads are usually a little drier than that.
I'm not sure if i really get you. What has the EU to do with arms deals? The EU also does not invade countries nor does it conduct any military strikes, it isn't a military alliance. That's usually what the US (Irak and a million other countries) or the NATO(Afghanistan...) is doing.I said that if you have the guts of military strike for your greedy and geostrategically purposes and destabilize a regime without knowing how the hundreds of clans works, have the guts to invade to bring humanitarian relieve. But is not the point, the point is that I would not even start. As when in Irak, international observers they were doing a good job controlling any weapons of mass destruction, but mr bushy went full force with lies and started all the mess (starting in Afghanistan with UK and less degree Spain and later on all the west) that we are in today. Instead of working from the inside with local forces to overthrown the regime, but is way more slow and of course, there is no money money money on it.
The lazy questions is because I already said not to sell arms to countries like finance Saudi Arabia and the likes, is reasonable if I did not say anything before hand. If you are lazy to read what I say I will be lazy to answer your questions too. Basically because I am at work