So this is not the original post?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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So this is not the original post?
Yes I think it is, not to you but to Massive Spanner!
Can't believe this.. are you saying the euro-zone is the saviour of the pound?
For goodness sake man remember the crash, if anything it was the other way round. This is not you Paul, I don't recognise this person who is replying, what have you done with Paul the Wolf!
The Euro was a fantastic innovation. I was ecstatic when it came into being, life became so much simpler, then we had borderless trading , oh joy! Until you've lived through the previous incarnation close up you don't appreciate it.
If what you say is true why are you so worried about Germany taking the strain.
We're back to who's going to lose the most - at least you've recognised that the Uk will lose more than the EU, now as I said before - the UK will lose over 50% of its customers if trade stops. So assuming that happens to maintain the same level it has to find double the customers it has left.
Now to give a few ideas of countries that supply the UK, I've already said that Germany is the top one with 7.6% so all it needs to do is replace the 7.6% with other customers.
France is 7.1%, Italy is 5.1%, Spain is 4.1% it's miniscule in comparison , that's all they have to replace the Uk trade with - how can a country survive a 50% loss of customers, if it was a company it would go bust overnight.
Your basket case southern economies could be dreamland if the Uk commits suicide.
I didn't say the Eurozone was the saviour of the pound, I said the Uk flourished for the most part while the Eurozone existed despite not being in the Euro and had done very well coming out of the crash..
So by you voting to leave, you have effectively voted for two options - 1 - not EU members but still want single market etc which in reality means you pay more but have no say which is exactly what you don't want - which leaves the second option which is a crash out of the EU and longterm severe economic damage, also which I presume you don't want
Last one for a couple of weeks....
I think we should add the CHF and, perhaps, the YEN to the major currencies - the CHF because it always has been and always will be a ' safe haven ' and the YEN because the Japanese economy is right up there with the world's biggest, even if not the ' best performing '....
Having said all that - I've always believed that currency rates ( whichever ) are controlled more by spivs and speculators than economic fundamentals, so although Wilson's famous ' pound in your pocket ' explanation doesn't hold water when it comes to actually paying for imported things, it's the spivs and speculators who are mostly to blame for ALL currency fluctuations.
I think we should add the CHF and, perhaps, the YEN to the major currencies - the CHF because it always has been and always will be a ' safe haven ' and the YEN because the Japanese economy is right up there with the world's biggest, even if not the ' best performing '....
Having said all that - I've always believed that currency rates ( whichever ) are controlled more by spivs and speculators than economic fundamentals, so although Wilson's famous ' pound in your pocket ' explanation doesn't hold water when it comes to actually paying for imported things, it's the spivs and speculators who are mostly to blame for ALL currency fluctuations.
Wilson's pound in your pocket doesn't hold water because he said it after he'd just devalued the pound and imports did cost a lot more, it's the timing.
Enjoy your trip.
Not sure why I was tagged in here, but as you like to shout about facts, you ignored me last time.
Lets go again with your bullshit.
And thus we come to the crux of the situation: this, as most of your 'facts', is pulled from your imagination, and has no basis in reality.
Read the rest of the posts, this is an opinion, not a fact, I said that earlier, do keep up!
I regard both with the same level of credibility.
Yes no wonder!
The British EU fee is slightly higher than 0.5% of GDP, but I wont argue with that as its in the right ball park!
The rest involves speculation and does not take into consideration the British 'take' on tariffs that we would charge in return, net values are required, so go away and sort that one out, then it might be worth listening to what you have to say.
Then what's your beef?
You do realise the tariffs are the tax paid by the purchaser of the goods, ie UK companies who will charge their customers in the UK - I think Brexiters continue to make this mistake, heard this so many times on here. The British Brexit public are being conned yet again with more lies and they're too stupid to realise.
Another old chestnut from David Davis today. 90% of world growth will be outside the EU.
BongoBongo Land has increased its annual GDP from $100 to $150 a whopping 50% increase.
BongoBongo Land are selling a product at £100 with a 50% discount
The EU are selling the same product at £52 with a 10% discount
Where do you buy the product:
Leavers: BongoBongo Land of course, they offer a bigger discount
Remainers: the cheapest of course, the EU
BongoBongo Land has increased its annual GDP from $100 to $150 a whopping 50% increase.
BongoBongo Land are selling a product at £100 with a 50% discount
The EU are selling the same product at £52 with a 10% discount
Where do you buy the product:
Leavers: BongoBongo Land of course, they offer a bigger discount
Remainers: the cheapest of course, the EU
I'm sure it was, even the EU wouldn't invent a new currency for the hell of it... or would they?
I'm not, but I think the Germans may do if they cannot get the Southern Economies operating effectively and they can't get Macron to deliver in France!
I accept initially, unless there is a transition period, that may happen, but the losses to the EU overall is still significant, yes Germany might be able to stand 7.6% loss but I seriously doubt, France, Italy and Spain will be dancing up and down with what their losses would be? As Tusk said 'no winners, only losers" Once again a transition period might be the answer, how long I don't know, how longs a piece of string?
Personally if there is a transition involving payments and EJC oversight etc., then I'd walk away, but as you say wiser heads may prevail, even if they get 'lopped-off' afterwards by the 'angry mob' (as you described them).
Brexit is a watershed moment for all concerned, as a result Britain will come to grips with an idea whose time has come, the EU might at last begin the internal and necessary reforms it needs, especially if it truly does want further integration. Then the various economies of the 27 countries will have to have a better balance between them, if not the then new Euro State will become effectively in all but name, a new Franco/German Empire, or possibly, if Macron bites the dust, a 'Greater Germany', and to be fair the Germans will deserve it, they do everything better than everyone else, especially penalty shoot outs
Both of the above in Britain and the EU, will of course be under new management.
And this is not the case in the EU? give it a rest Paul!
Price isn't everything is it Paul, quality, delivery, aftersales service, all count as well don't they, you really are losing your touch!
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You keep ignoring facts, why, you really can't be this stupid, nobody can be this stupid. You just don't like what you're reading. It's pointless, Farage has brainwashed you and there's no hope.
And there's only one o in losing!
Re the first pargraph, the general consensus in this forum just after the crash ended was that the uk was being held back by the eurozone. Jaz was a big champion if this thought and so were other people that worked in the city / finance who posted on here.
Right back at you Paul
Thanks for the spelling tip!
This Brexit business reminds me of someone I worked closely with. He was a multi - millionaire , doing well , one day he decided to make a monumental change because he thought the grass was greener. I said you would be mad to do what you're planning, no you're wrong he says, dozens of other people told him he was making a mistake - but he got enough "yes men" around him to give him peace of mind that he was doing the right thing. His initial attempts fortunately came to nothing and everyone thought he had given up. Suddenly a couple of years later he announced out of nowhere that he had done the dreadful deed.
Within 3 years he had lost everything and will be paying back to the banks for the rest of his life.
Have seen similar stories quite often over the years, Brexit is not a gamble that things can be better, it is a certainty that it won't - you can quote me on that in a few years.
So you don't understand the WTO, another one to add to the list of things you make up as you go along.
The WTO has a list of tariffs, its all freely available for download. If we go through the WTO, our IMPORTS will go up by fixed amounts. I used a simple one, the 35% is not up for negotiation, that is the WTO tariff for fresh food. That is, under wto, our food will go up by that amount (and because importers will want more profit, more than the 35% tariff they pay).
That is just food. I use that one because, unless you plan on starving, that is one we will be paying without question. And its more than we currently pay.
So again your claim we get trade for free is utter bollocks.
Sounds like before my time on here but if that was the case how were the Uk posting much better figures than the EU much more quickly. Which way will the figures go after the Uk leaves, I know where my money would be.
No I agree.. IN MY OPINION, its a gamble to prevent things getting worse.
That's why people millions listened to Farage (and you could argue to Trump).
Brexit means different things to different people, personally I don't want to stay on a bus that is going where I don't think the country should go and it seems the majority in the country also don't want it to go, so we have to get off!
Referendums rarely solve anything in a fair and just manner, they just settle things!
To me this is not about losing some business, over a short period, its about where we expect to be in 30 or even 40 years time. One of the things that is of great advantage to the Chinese system is they don't have fundamental changes of government, every five years, so they can think and plan in fifty or even a hundred year cycles, they know on their present pathways, they will be leading the US in economic terms by the end of this Century, unless Trump pulls the plug (intentionally or by accident), its done now, or it won't get done.
Despite the EU's aim to develop towards an integrated super-state and towards being an economic block to rival the US and China and/or South East Asia, it can't do it, because its own inertia as much as anything stops it happening, it needs a superpower (like Germany) to grab it by the scruff of the neck and make it work, but even if it were to get there, I suspect it will be too late, the US may slip back bit but there will be no stopping China.
You may be enjoying the good life, in France I take it, and others on here, are in other EU countries, well good luck to you \all, I have no gripe about that, you've left Britain, presumably from choice, if you were thrown out or forced out then perhaps a different story emerges, but you've made your choice, so now have 17.4 m others.
What if we import less food, by investing more in arable land, genetic crops, use of non nuclear power for running mass farming?
notice we are still using terms like bollocks, I thought we'd got past that phase, all you have to say is you disagree..simples!
Everyone's free to make a choice, or at least should be. If you've done this to get to somewhere in 30/40 years time I'm sure the young people on here will be forever grateful that the older people who are mainly responsible for the Uk leave vote even though they won't be around, very selfless I must say.
So if you think China is the big threat, why leave a union that protects its members and go out on it's own against a much larger problem, don't count on the USA, they really don't care about anyone other than themselves.
As I said, nothing is emotional about my opinion, its purely logical and imo the Uk are making the biggest mistake in the last 80 odd years.
With what labour?
Not to mention the fabled WTO, whose quotas which when be forced upon us will put a swift end to much of our own agriculture.
Not to mention the fabled WTO, whose quotas which when be forced upon us will put a swift end to much of our own agriculture.
Because it can't and won 't be able to that's the fundamental point, inertia, incompetence, whatever, its an illusion!
That's straight out of Farage. You don't realise it but it's there, it works and have particular experience of how it works especially regards China - the Uk will be in trouble on its own.
That first line made me cringe, its another case of 'what suits me best is brilliant'. Were you living in europe during the change to the euro? It was the worst thing ever.
The point was the uk economy was not growing as quick as it should, the eu in recession was the reason suggested. I tend to agree.
I lived in the UK till 2007 - I'm talking about business - anyone who was trading in and out and around of Europe surely thought the same thing. 1st January 1999, we had our Euro accounts set up, before the cash came out. Consolidating containers in Holland, Belgium, France, Germany - all mixed up of products from countries all round Europe - no more buying or selling in loads of different currencies, goodbye Dutch guilders, Deutschmarks, French Francs, Belgian Francs , Austrian Schillings , Italian Lira - bloody brilliant.
In Spain the increase in prices was ridiculous. After 10 years, the price of basic food and others went X4 while the salarys grew 0,05% . The "round it up" style of the first couple of years, or the 100 pessetas = 1 euro (when it was 166.386) in the coin based products was a steal.
Besides that, the euro, as many things, has very positive things as very bad things.
I don't see the euro like a very good solution nor like a disaster. It all depends in which part of your life affects you more
If the EUZ was in recession, less money around , if the US was in recession, idem, pick a part of the world, it will affect it. All the progress the Uk made, wiped out by one decision.
Yes, but you realize that most of the population don't work in international trading, do you? Your peace of mind or easiness can mean nothing to some other people that they are not in that world. And I repeat, I am not against the euro. Is that you can't extrapolate your case or of the few ones as a beneficial for everyone
On the matter of the EU membership fee, it's worth noting that our net contribution has increased by 400% over the past decade or so. And with the recent austerity era as a guide, i think we can reasonably that bloated Brussels would ask for even more during future budgetary cycles. Perhaps £20-25bn annually before too long? Well let the integrationists pay for their own party.
If the businesses in individual countries took advantage of fiddling the people that's another matter. Remember in international trading if you are buying something one day in French Francs and the next day it's in Euros you are not going to get conned by the people you are buying from by a sudden increase in price.
Same thing was said when the UK changed to decimal currency in 1971.
Other than international trading travelling between member states also makes life easy, you may say not everyone travels
And that's exactly what happened a baguette at 2 Francs was sold at 0.50€ while the ones at 5 Francs became 1€. I guess that you see why they did that.
Yes, as I said there are other advantages that affects more broadly to everyone than a job in international trading. As immigrate and sending money home, etc...
But other important negative things like a country having control in their monetary system and adjusting it to it's preferences. Of course, Germany has a lot of saying in that and it has opposite monetary preferences than southern europe countries.
Baaah, me me me. Proper tory