They are a bit strange, they basically propose no hard border between NI and Ireland, freedom to cross for every EU and UK citizens, and no customs border between NI and Great Britain while being under two different jurisdictions. So the idea is to create and maintain a void.
I'm maybe completely wrong but it looks like they are purposely making Brexit impossible.
Again, neither the EU nor Ireland voted for, chose, or desired any of this. The EU do not want a hard border, but the UK removing itself from the single market means there HAS to be a hard border. It is our brexit causing this, no one else.
I fear until people can actually accept responsibility for what brexit means, this is just going nowhere. At some point, its time to stop blaming the bogeyman and take some responsibility.
You are wrong in the real world Brexit is possible but its form is very limited and it's not something that the UK or the EU want. One thing that some brexiters in this thread seem to have missed is that there is a border between NI and Ireland, these are two different countries but one thing makes that border work the way it does and that's the EU Custom Union. The EU isn't asking for a hard border, the hard border has been reinstated the second the UK decided to leave the Custom Union.
A total 'No Holds Barred ' Brexit is not impossible - it's appears it's what both sides want. And what is going to happen.
The UK didn't choose to remove itself from the SM.....The EU won't let the UK stay in the SM without accepting too many other conditions and requirements that the majority in the UK decided weren't worth it.
But maybe there is cunning plan after all.....
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-b...-trade-deal-telegraph-newspaper-idUKKBN1CF18K
I'm sorry, where in the below do you specify this exactly? Or do you expect me to read future you's posts to determine that it's due to what friend's in Ireland have told you?Yes it does, because that's what actually I said, not what you misquoted!
Did I say that they did?
For goodness sake man read the dammed post, before sounding off, you are making yourself look silly.
I expressed a sentiment put to me over many years by my friends in Ireland. Personally for me, if they choose to live in the EU thats fine, that is the Irish determining their own future.
Northern Ireland may well have to leave the UK, in order to join the EU as a separate entity, whether they could as an independent country or have to join with the Irish Republic, I don't know, maybe the Brexit situation may open that debate. At the moment there seems to be stalemate in NI anyway, Brexit may break the log-jam.
Whichever it is it is ultimately up to the people of Ireland to determine, collectively, or possibly as two independent States within an Irish Con-Federation, or some similar overarching structure that is accepted by the EU.
I hope you can see the irony in you telling me that I'm making myself look silly for misquoting your post when your post never had the information you are claiming is oh so vital to it in the first place.Major target? for who, for what purpose?
It would seem the Republicans in NI long since gave up the idea they could bomb the province into a United Ireland and the Unionists realise that the Republican ideal of a United Ireland isn't going to go away.
Brexit will force a new look at things sure, but ultimately it won't be Brussels or London that solve the problem, it will be Dublin and Belfast and the whole of Ireland will probably be better off for it!
Yes agreed - but it's impossible if the agreement between Ireland and Northern Ireland is to be respected.
I can't see it happening, not in the next few decades, at least. Ultimately half of the North don't want a reunified Ireland, I think even if Brexit goes terrible for them it'll still be very difficult to convince them to vote on a reunified Ireland. I think we'd be more likely to see an independent North back in the EU, but even that would take a considerable amount of time because they are heavily reliant on the UK for jobs and subsidies so the EU would need to help provide those for them to stop the north going into turmoil.There is a technically possible solution but from what I understand it's not realistically possible. The re-unification of Ireland in or out of the EU or the UK.
Bear in mind that I'm clueless on all things Irish, I'm only looking at it from a legal standpoint.
How does joining NAFTA solve the Irish border problem?
There is a technically possible solution but from what I understand it's not realistically possible. The re-unification of Ireland in or out of the EU or the UK.
Bear in mind that I'm clueless on all things Irish, I'm only looking at it from a legal standpoint.
I can't see it happening, not in the next few decades, at least. Ultimately half of the North don't want a reunified Ireland, I think even if Brexit goes terrible for them it'll still be very difficult to convince them to vote on a reunified Ireland. I think we'd be more likely to see an independent North back in the EU, but even that would take a considerable amount of time because they are heavily reliant on the UK for jobs and subsidies so the EU would need to help provide those for them to stop the north going into turmoil.
There is a technically possible solution but from what I understand it's not realistically possible. The re-unification of Ireland in or out of the EU or the UK.
Bear in mind that I'm clueless on all things Irish, I'm only looking at it from a legal standpoint.
Tactics....Designed to make it as difficult as possible for the UK.
EU say they won't discuss anything else until agreement on a leaving / divorce settlement, but, of course, won't or can't provide an itemised bill.
Seems absolutely obvious that the EU wants to cut all ties with the UK on BREXIT day and they are using the refusal to provide the leaving / divorce settlementl as their main weapon
Davis et al are too polite / desperate to actually come out and say that, but it's probably getting near the time when the UK should perhaps put the ball back in the EU's court and say that the UK has already agreed to pay what's correct and reaonable, which it has, but he can't discuss anything else ( ECJ, FoM, Transition Period, Irish Border ) till he's seen the bill. Certainly, it's time for the UK to grow a pair.
It doesn't....
And yes - I've no idea how the UK can solve the Irish Border problem given it's backed itself into a corner with its ' No Hard Border between NI and the rest of the UK '.....At least not without some assistance / advice / suggestions / dialogue from all of the EU and Ireland and Northern Ireland.
But it would help solve the apparent impossibility of the UK to get any sort of Trade Deal with the EU.
Indeed that is not realistic at all. One of the main issues with the border is the effect it could have on the peace process. Avoiding that by doing something that would have a much, much worse effect on the peace process isn't in tbe island's interests.
The current Irish Taoiseach rather forcefully dismissed the idea on those grounds not long ago. If the Republic's government is that set against the idea then it has stopped before it even started.
Rightly so too because it would be an absolute nightmare.
As i believe you alluded to in a later post, the same goes for their so-called offer on citizens' rights. The requirement that the ECJ maintain jurisdiction negated the proposal of any sincerity, and shock horror, turned the average person into a pawn.
This is why i think it is good to see both a No Deal and future relations with NAFTA being discussed in the news today. Even if we do come to more reasonable terms, a formal alliance with our North American friends could be our eventual destination further in the future.
If you are referring to my comments you will notice I said 'probably' better off! this is based on what my Irish friends, some living in the north and some in the south, have indicated to me over a period of years.
The general feeling seemed to be "we love having visitors to this island, but we would like to manage our own affairs", as I say these are sentiments and comments expressed to me over the years, mostly in situations where little or no alcohol had been consumed!
I would truly love to know how "the whole of Ireland will be better off" than a situation where we've a completely open border,[/QUOTE]
Your misquote!
I never referred to an open border at all, in fact any border!
I had a bit of hope the country would take a step back once we realised where this is headed.
We seem determined to go full on, head first for this car crash.
I am just curious to know how the Tories intend to blame Labour for this nonsense.
What a crock. Are we supposed to have forgotten your heroes calling us bargaining chips and not giving a single feck about us for about the first 9 months after Brexit?
Oh yeah, let's have a formal alliance with Trump's America, what possible downside could there be to that?
Are you for real? That post was after your initial post that I replied to, that was my whole point. I honestly don't think you actually read what others in this thread say.
Blame Cameron and Osborne and the others for the delay -not those trying to start from scratch.
People who blame the current negotiating team for the delay would be the same ones moaning if May had called Art 50 the next day without ANY plan.
Cameron and the Tories should have at least had an outline plan, but politicians and arrogance are inseperable.
No she waited 9 months and then triggered Art 50 without any plan and still doesn't have one
To be honest you have to blame the voters, well 52% of them for buying into the Project Fear nonsense. The right-wing media also has to take its blame.
As others have said. May should have had a feasible plan before invoking article 50. Except she was arrogant like most of the folks for Brexit.
There you go - one anti-Brexit poster moaning that she took to long to call Art 50, and a few minutes later one complaining that she called it too soon.
Maybe if some the Project Fear lies hadn't been so outrageous, some people might have believed the genuine ones.
Disagree.
She has a plan - misguided, unworkable,unachievable, perhaps, but at least she now has one.
Nobody else had one other than those whose plan was to ignore the result of the referendum
What exactly have your friends told you that makes them (probably) think the north and south will be better off when Brexit happens
Brexit is already and will become a catalyst for change in the UK as well as in the EU. An idea whose time has come! Ireland (NI) and Scotland had a predominant remain vote, whereas England and Wales voted by a majority to leave, the overall vote as we know 52:48 in favour of leaving. These votes rightly or wrongly represents the Will of the People and that has to be respected, by Governments across the UK, (or as Paul the Wolf says, risk facing the angry mob) In respecting those votes it would seem that at some point the UK will change its internal structures, how or in what way has still to be decided, but first comes Brexit!
Pretty disturbing thread from a hard core Brexiteer. His blog indicates that he would be happy to see a 1/3 of the economy leave for the sake of Brexit
As predicted. The UK will now toy around the idea of joining NAFTA
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...e-deal-telegraph-newspaper-idUSKBN1CF18K?il=0
No she waited 9 months and then triggered Art 50 without any plan and still doesn't have one
Literally all of that is irrelevant to what you said originally, though.You really, I mean really, do have to read the posts, my friends did not say they thought they would be better off with Brexit, I never said they said they would be better off with Brexit. It told you previously, in the earlier post, that, over a period of years (pre-dating Brexit by at least 25 years) their main preoccupation has seemed to me to have been that the Island of Ireland should be left to sort its own problems out! That's it, finite, end off, that's all folks!
At least two of my friends, believe that if President De Valera had accepted Churchill's (admittedly it was only a reputed) offer in 1940's there would now be either a full Irish state, or an Irish Confederation of two independent states North and South that would govern Ireland and represent both traditions. Maybe the border problems associated with Brexit will allow, or even force, whatever, a re-visit to the thinking that was behind this idea in 1940?
Brexit is already and will become a catalyst for change in the UK as well as in the EU. An idea whose time has come! Ireland (NI) and Scotland had a predominant remain vote, whereas England and Wales voted by a majority to leave, the overall vote as we know 52:48 in favour of leaving. These votes rightly or wrongly represents the Will of the People and that has to be respected, by Governments across the UK, (or as Paul the Wolf says, risk facing the angry mob) In respecting those votes it would seem that at some point the UK will change its internal structures, how or in what way has still to be decided, but first comes Brexit!
I'll ask once more - what makes you, or ... your Irish friends, whatever, believe that the whole of Ireland will probably be better off for it?Brexit will force a new look at things sure, but ultimately it won't be Brussels or London that solve the problem, it will be Dublin and Belfast and the whole of Ireland will probably be better off for it!
The will of the people is something that can change from one week to the next.
what makes you, or ... your Irish friends, whatever, believe that the whole of Ireland will probably be better off for it
But the southern Irish will decide they/we want to stay in the EU.Because the Irish people themselves will have decided, that's why it would be better off, its not rocket science, its really isn't you know!
You forgot to add she triggered it without a plan then called an election that wasted 6 weeks
Disgraced Minister Liam Fox wanks to this idea
Come on son, this is beneath even your low threshold of understanding.
Do you honestly think that the majority of people who voted, either way, did so on a whim, that if the sun is shinning next week, I'll vote the opposite way? No of course not, but you believe those voting leave did, those voting remain, stood solid and knowledgeable and would vote the same way again and again, and again, until everyone shared their views.
Keep asking until you get the answer you want, its pathetic.
Millions of pounds were spent on informing both sides and yes there was 'truths and lies' sprinkled evenly I would say over both camps, as with most political events, as happened when back in the day we thought we were voting for a common market and got instead on a destination to a new state.
And yes I do believe leave would win again, by and even greater majority, but they won the first one and that's what matters.
You forgot to add she triggered it without a plan then called an election that wasted 6 weeks
