There's no doubt , but we have to be creative though and smooth (a lot of straight bananas for the smoothies)
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There's no doubt , but we have to be creative though and smooth (a lot of straight bananas for the smoothies)
This transitional deal represents some progress at least.
Extend that a few times and then cancel this shit show when the Brexiteers have died off.
Extend that a few times and then cancel this shit show when the Brexiteers have died off.
There was bit of a trumpism in there as well with her offering being "unprecedented in depth"
Did they had a choice?
Transitional deal is unsurprising but it demonstrates how little confidence the government have in Brexit being a success. If you're opting for damage limitation, essentially, then you obviously aren't convinced what you're doing is a good idea.
Probably not, but it's a pretty major concession to have to make whilst still trying to convince people that Brexit is a good idea.
So the point of the speech was to present it in front of half a dozen members of the Uk cabinet, a few local italian dignitaries and some press, mainly British
Appease the UK journalists by giving them a couple of days holiday to Italy.
Farage doesn't seem too happy.
Farage making business analogies here in regards to walking away without a deal, ignoring the fact that May's running a country and not a business. Is he an actual child? Like, he does realise we can't just do what we want here, and that compromises have to be made?
Or not to have the speech in the UK to avoid the Brexiteer's lynch mob screaming, "Get on with it, this isn't what we voted for!"
She's surely approaching a position where she'll piss of everyone. Brexiters will be frustrated at not getting their own distinct, personal vision of Brexit, while Remainers will be annoyed it's happened at all. Leaving May in a position wherein she'll have to fall on her own sword and leave someone else to pick up the mess, as the rest of the country wonders just what the point was at all.
Yeah pretty much.
I remain bewildered
You can't expect him to say that Brexit was just a scam he set up to make ridiculous amount of money as MEP out of gullible people backs can he? He will insist that Brexit was a great idea and he will blame everybody else for it not working the way it should have done.
What a great way to finish off such an incorrect post
Yes, its not rocket science is it?
I cant really blame her. One one side there's the people had spoken while on the other hand she doesn't want to be remembered as the PM who ruined the UK economy. Honestly, she shouldn't have taken the PM role in the first place. She should have left Boris sort the mess he created.
There again we all know how Tories attraction to power don't we?
She said that we never really felt comfortable being part of the EU.
That will help the tens of thousands of small businesses looking for new customers across Europe I'm sure.
She is, without doubt, the worst PM in a century, and given the last one lost a referendum on the very future of the country and ran away, that is saying something.
That will help the tens of thousands of small businesses looking for new customers across Europe I'm sure.
She is, without doubt, the worst PM in a century, and given the last one lost a referendum on the very future of the country and ran away, that is saying something.
Oh Ye of little faith!
Theresa gave the EU leaders an 'out' today, bit risky but at least it was a sincere attempt to find common ground, doubt if they will take it though, still waiting for Angela Merkel... drum rolls on Monday!
Barnier and Davis warm up act can now put their feet up!, well perhaps stay around a bit longer, to show willing!
Did anyone notice that the German journalist asked Mrs May what she expected back from Brussels AND BERLIN?, big hint there, all set up for Mrs Merkel to seal the deal.
Don't you find it a tad concerning, as a Brexiter, that May seems determined to retain all the benefits of the EU for as long as she possibly can, pretty much extending the time during which we'll continue to be within it? It's also as if she, you know, doesn't want to follow through with this.
A speech which still amounts to "give us a special deal", maximum access with minimal obligations or interference. 15 months after the referendum, the government still seems to have no viable strategy. I think May is intelligent enough to realise the weakness of her hand as well as the logical inconsistency of leaving the EU to join the EEA but any sympathy is tempered by the fact that she actively sought out the top job when Cameron stood down (after keeping very quiet in the campaign itself).
I thought that honour went to Tony Blair, Iraq and all that?... Oh no sorry, he's trying to re-integrate himself by showing his pro-EU credentials!
As has been said, she's still using vague platitudes like "creative" and "ambitious" in spite of the fact we're actively in the Brexit process. It's past the time for ideas and possible thoughts...we're in the actual negotiation period where we actually need to be getting actual agreements and arrangements sorted. The transitional deal is probably the most progress that's been made so far and it basically amounts to us staying in the EU for longer.
A German journalist asking TM about what she expects from the German government. That's strange isn't it? Why didn't she asked what she expected from Valletta or Bucharest instead? What about Luxembourg or Lisbon? I am sure that the Germans who follow that's journalist media would rather know know what TM is expecting from them rather then what she expects from their own head. Also notice that the question came after the Italian journalist asked about Italian citizen rights. Maybe the axis want to learn more about Britain's next move?
TM is eyeing for a transitional deal and she will probably get it after the UK pays the bill. After that it will be up to the British voter + Boris and Fox to determine what happens next. From what we've seen, TM is in no mood to send the economy tits up in the name of democracy or ideology so if they want a hard Brexit then they better sign some very good trade deals.
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You may not like it, but it really is true for the majority of the British public, especially when the Common Market finished and it set off on the trail to become the EU!
Mrs Thatcher almost had us out, but they bought her off with a rebate and also at that time Michael Heseltine lost his nerve and stepped down from running against her in a leadership contest, especially after the Westland debacle. Tony Blair would have given away the Pound (Sterling) clearing the way for full integration but good ole Gordon Brown (and his side-kick Ed Balls, he's quiet now isn't he?) stopped him, and he's a Scotsman to boot, but clearly not a Scots Nationalist..or is he? Brown recognised the damage that would be done when under the change to the Euro, when the Barnet formulae's weakness for the rest of Britain would be unveiled.
The truth is we were always the 'nearly man' as far as the idea of a United States of Europe is concerned, so its better we go our own way. Let them get on with it, and as Theresa said "lets have a special deal, agreed between old friends who all want the same thing, but wrapped up in different packages!
I agree that the best part is the fact that we are kicking the can down the road until 2021 at least (although that still doesn't help much if you are running a business and trying to decide whether to stay or invest in Britain). As I have said before, the concept of Brexit was something talked up in the watering holes of Westminster and St James and around kitchen tables in Notting Hill over bottles of wine. Now we are in a very extended morning after and still no-one has a clue how to translate last night's boasts into a feasible concrete plan. For the very good reason that there is no feasible alternative between compromises to protect the economy and a hang the consequences drive for a full, clean break.
Shes damaging foreign trade, its a bad thing to say no matter what.
But do me a favour, name one thing in your daily life that the EU made you uncomfortable about.
Aye, it's ridiculous. We're a quarter of the way into the Brexit process and nothing's really been revealed. Saying you want to be 'creative' and 'imaginative' doesn't achieve anything. It doesn't let people know how Brexit will impact us. Revealing how different sectors will be compensated/how they'll cope with a decrease in immigration, especially if they often rely on immigration, is proper planning. Revealing how Brexit will impact universities who often rely on foreign cooperation for research etc is planning. Revealing the exact number we want to reduce net migration to, instead of giving out vague figures, is planning. Revealing how areas like Wales who rely on farming subsidies will be helped is actual planning. So far we're still seeing platitudes which don't actually mean anything, and which don't actually help anyone who needs to know what's going to happen.
Varoufakis(Well the Eagles)was right - You can check out any time you like, But you can never leave.
When I worked for them in the late 90's to the early 00's and I got some of the 'gravy train' for myself and my company, nice at the time, but very uncomfortable with the whole thing, have to confess the lure of the 'lolly' was too much to resist.
I suppose for me personally they actually were halcyon days, but the writing was on the wall even then, the EEC/EU should have reformed itself internally, in particular to try to sort out the growing incompetence and corruption, 'The Cresson Affair' etc. but unfortunately they covered it (most) of it up and glossed over it by going for enlargement. Of course at the time the Americans were pushing the EEC/EU to bring on-board the Baltic states and the East Europeans who were now experiencing new found freedom after the fall of the Berlin Wall and they wanted them out of Russia's sphere of influence and of course the EEC/EU complied.
It will all come down to the two leaders Theresa and Mrs Merkel to sort out, maybe if young Macron behaves himself, Angela may let him stand behind her to see how its done, as eventually he will take over her role when the new United States of Europe emerges!
You're saying this as if the EU has collapsed, or is on the verge of collapse. Reforms need to be made but it's perfectly possible for that to happen. It'll just be the case now that Britain has no say over those exact reforms, even though we'll be heavily impacted by them. And you're saying this as if incompetence/corruption isn't a significant part of the UK and various other Western democratic states.
I hope your right about the reforms, but personally I doubt it, the time for meaningful reform has passed, if 8 and then 12 members couldn't agree on the reforms previously, then 27 members will never agree to the hard choices that need to be made and certainly not whilst they are all still sucking up the gravy!
No, that's it precisely, they won't happen and we will not be affected because whatever deal we make will be with the old monolithic EU, the only chance they have is if Macron makes a success of his reforms in France, Angela Merkel might let him loose on the EU. If he is successful there, then he will become the new EU leading politician when Mrs Merkel bows out.
Yes of course,, but nothing like the EU, its a system built on incompetence, e.g. just look at the cost of relocating the Commission from Brussel to Strasborg ever so many months, this total waste of money has been going on for years and why, because its in the treaty of Rome, its actually woven into the EU fabric and although some corruption (as we know it Jim!) has been cleared out of parts of the EU, things like due diligence is so poor on EU projects, on partnerships, on the 'money trail' that more and new seeds of corruption will emerge, much of it electronically activated.
Sorry to paint such a poor picture, but unless they do get a grip, via Macron or whoever, the EU is going to hell in a handcart... but thankfully without us!
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Channel's 4 (presumed) take...
It depends on what you constitute as 'meaningful reform'. Naturally some reforms will be harder to achieve than others due to the number of countries involved; others will be easier to achieve and will likely be beneficial. The problem with arguments such as this is that they tend to be too either/or in their approach. The EU is a huge, sprawling organisation with over 20+ member states; necessary reforms are widespread, and to suggest none of these can be achieved is a bit silly. If you think the necessary level of reform can't be achieved, then fair enough, but the idea that nothing can be done is daft.
The 27 member states all having their own say has certain benefits, though. It ensures small states have a proper voice. It ensures major countries can't force through certain legislation which will negatively impact other member states. For example, arguments used during the referendum like the suggestion that Turkey would join the EU were nonsensical, because it ignored the fact we had an actual veto on the issue, and could've chosen to exclude Turkey had it ever got to the point where other nations were willing to accept their application.
I don't deny the EU has problems but this idea that it's on the verge of collapse is fantasy. Again, due to its huge, complex nature, certain aspects of it'll be stronger than others; defined opinions on the EU tend to be a bit fantastical and exaggerated. First people were saying Le Pen would bring about its collapse alongside other populist leaders. Now that's not happening, and something else will be made up to try and argue for a collapse that's not at all on the verge of happening.
Example: Stop wasting millions on moving the EU commission/parliament every few months from Brussels to Strasbourg (i.e. stop rinsing and repeating everything that doesn't need it!)).
They will tell you it cannot be done, because when there were 8 member states, to avoid any arguments between France and Belgium about who gets most of the gravy this compromise was agreed and written into the Treaty of Rome. Therefore its untouchable and so are many of the meaningful reforms, its back to the 'free movement' thing, they can't change it because its set in concrete... which eventually will fall in on their heads!
Yes, they can decide to change the colour of the toilet paper and what kind of soap is required in the loo's, things and reforms like that, no problem.. the EU will excel, but they will need a committee of 27 members to do it!
I Believe... any old cobblers
You say the UK will be left to dry, but no, the logical conclusion is that the UK as a country will be fine with a deal being reached with the EU. Even without a deal, the economy won't tank, it'll take some damage, but it'll be fine. That's the logical conclusion. Anything else is bitterness and a desire to push the opinion that UK's going to suffer more than it is. I don't mean to be offensive, but I see this a lot with expats, they always come out with xyz reason why Britain is so bad so as to sort of justify to themselves their reason for leaving. You did it in your last post with the 'opinion of the average brit' remark. I also see this with a lot of non-Brits, and I'll admit it's very tedious to read coming from people who don't even live here. Yes there'll be some downsides to the process, but the constant doom-mongering predictions about the UK's future is wrong imo.
And no, the migrant issue is a wider issue facing the EU in the context of ever closer integration. Saying France is fine in the EU doesn't actually make it fine. Most countries like Hungary are in the EU because of the economic benefits. They don't want to be forced to take migrants when they don't want to. The ever closer integration that Juncker is pushing is a recipe for trouble because the opinions across the EU aren't unanimous, and inevitably the smaller countries with different opinions will lose out. There's just not enough cultural uniformity to make it work. I'm curious to see how the Hungary issue works out, because either the EU court actually means something, or Hungary's gov is forced to do something it's refusing to do. Either way, the clash in what the EU wants vs what sovereign nations want politically is highlighted.
In what way will the economy be fine. If the UK left now they'd have torn up the agreement for the single market and the customs union. They would no longer be members of the WTO so every single agreement they have at this moment will be null and void and they have to start from the beginning with every single country out there. That means after years of trying to obtain WTO membership they might be able to start concluding some deals.
Now if the Uk has dozens of teams of negotiators to be able to negotiate and formalise agreements with all the countries they want to deal with. How long does an agreement take to negotiate and finalise? Even May said this afternoon suggested it will take takes many years - so what are you going to do in the meantime - yes that is what she was hinting at this afternoon , she desperately needs the EU to give them time because the UK is in desperate trouble without a deal, so she's talking about a 2 year transitional deal, it will take longer than that to sort their economy out, the EU have said 3 maximum, and during that time the UK will be paying their subs without rebates, still have the ECJ have no MEPs , no vote, no say - welcome to Brexit - brilliant.
Now under the new regime in what 5, 10 years or maybe never the UK will be able to sell to all these countries Brexiters think they don't sell to now. So having pissed off Europe and made imports and exports between the EU and the UK much more complicated - what happens in trade when things get too complicated , they go elsewhere . The UK now want to sell to these places like the USA and the ex-colonies - surprise, you already do, try selling a lot more to each of them to replace the EU downturn - why not do that now, nothing stopping the UK.
The UK will be alright if it stays within the protection of the EU, maybe it will come to it's senses eventually before it is too late.
Had a few suggestions from other Brexiteers about France voting for Le Pen because they thought it was about the EU, some was, but guess what, the majority is about racism and xenophobia - not other EU citizens I may add - yes there are some in France too, fortunately not as prevalent as in the UK.
I am not an Expat (this is an English term because some Englishmen don't like to be classed as foreigners) - I am English-born person who lives in France and until just over a year ago ran two UK companies (retired) - so I'm not out of touch, have family in England so I don't particularly want the UK to collapse.
I also don't have to justify to myself why I live here. It's my choice
It's not doom-mongering, it's so bleeding obvious. Come back to me when I get something wrong, the last couple of years have panned out as expected so far.
I haven't even touched on the logistical problems, confidence of investors and the finance/service industry. I really am bewildered by this stick your head in the sand and hope that everything will be alright attitude - it's absolutely ridiculous.
What's panned out exactly as expected? Nothing's happened so far.
And no, it's not sticking your head in the sand. You're making one sided assumptions about things that might happen and expecting it happen as fact. Do you really think a EU-UK trade deal is so one sided that it's not in the EU's interest too? May indicated today they'd be happy to pay their contributions to the EU budget till 2020, which is what the EU demanded, do you really think the UK will offer that if the EU turns around and says access to the single market isn't possible? You think everything the UK will agree too (i.e. EU citizen rights) in the first stage of negotiations will still hold if some form of access to the single market doesn't get given? The EU's our biggest trade partner, yes, but we're NET importers of about £80 billion - so who loses out more? You think all the german car makers and all the other exporters to us will be happy? May's speech today was specifically highlighting the need to offer concessions to reach that deal. They know it's a priority.
That's what I talk about doom-mongering, all this talk about xyz that's going to wrong when nothing's happened and a deal being reached is more likely that not. You go on about all these things going wrong when none of that is a foregone conclusion.
And you completely ignored my second paragraph about the structural weakness of the EU, who's sticking their head in the sand?