That would make sense if EU immigration was damaging the UK but it wasn't. It had a positive impact on the UK economy. Brexiters voted to leave the EU which is fair enough. There again they cant expect to be treated better then a third country in terms of a trade deal either.
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That would make sense if EU immigration was damaging the UK but it wasn't. It had a positive impact on the UK economy. Brexiters voted to leave the EU which is fair enough. There again they cant expect to be treated better then a third country in terms of a trade deal either.
As said Canada is more pro immigration and I gave an example to that. I might give you more news on that when my relative apply for citizenship. A friend of mine applied for British citizenship and had to live without her passport for a year (it was taken away from her as part of the process and told not to bother calling to ask for updates about her process else her application will go back to the queue)
Also note that immigrants do their homework before moving to a new country. I know because I am one. If the UK aims to implement visas at par to Canada and Australia then rest assured that they will end up with sloppy thirds. Actually sloppy fourths since most would rather move to Germany and be treated like citizens
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The only way a reduction in immigration can be justified if its detrimental to the country something that EU immigration was not. Therefore its xenophobia ie fear and hatred of strangers
Has immigration cause so many problems that we have to leave the EU to control it?
On an overall basis yes, do you think those sections which are constructive are not going to be allowed in? House prices, wage depression in non-skilled jobs are just some of the issues it can cause.
On my reasons for leaving immigration was not in the top 2-3. So on its own I would say no.
Correct but the place had more jobs than people and at least I had years of experience but because I hadn't really anything sought after I was not entitled to the 30% rule. My non eu colleagues are highly skilled and earn between 60-100k and pay tax on 70% of their earnings for 8 years. But they are really here for a passport and entry to the UK, that might have chaged
If according to you immigration is not a problem + according to studies EU immigration had been beneficial to the UK then why put restrictions to it? Why not use FOM as a leverage to get a trade deal with the EU? After all its not as if the UK has an aces in its deck on that regard.
Regarding your second comment. An immigrant would check before moving which countries benefits him the most and act accordingly. If the UK decide to put the same restrictions Australia and Canada then it will be competing with them for the same pool of immigrants. Under such circumstances (+ considering that the UK blames everything under the sun to immigrants) I assure you it will lose out to them. I know because I am an immigrant whose got friends/family who are immigrants in both countries.
Hey.....
I'm not a Brexiter - I'm anti-EU and thank the lord that at least the UK had the good sense to see where that particular piece of shit is taking them.
But feel free....Just don't come back complaining when Brexiters on here call immigrants arse holes.
Studies on EU immigration find as a WHOLE it is beneficial to the UK, not that every EU citizen who comes is beneficial. You can say that Canada is more pro-immigration and I'd agree to an extent, but it's also far easier to be pro-immigration when you are controlling who is coming in and aren't being forced to take people. If Canada is that pro-immigration then why don't they just remove their skilled worker points calculator thing and just let in everyone who wants to come?
Why does the UK recieve about 250,000 migrants per year from the rest of the world where it is 'competing' with Canada and Australia then?
No one is forcing anyone to take people. The UK agreed to be part of the EU which means it agrees to abide to the 4 freedoms. Once out of the EU it can restrict access to EU immigration and it will also lose the many benefits unrestricted access to the single market provide, something the 'cherry pickers' seems struggling to understand. Its true that not every EU immigrant is beneficial. However is the 'right' to remove the bad apples really worth losing out on such great trade deal especially since the EU already have rules in place to do that. What happens if lets say the EU decide to act the same way with the British elderly immigrants who are using the Spanish/French NHS for free?
The UK is currently an EU country with a sound economy and full access to the single market. Immigrants know that while there's an amount of xenophobics in the government there's always the ECJ protecting them. What happens if everything goes tits up? What happens if the UK ends up with work conditions similar to the US (ie long hours, barely any leave or protection), the NHS is traded off for a trade deal with the US but still retain the same lousy salaries and high expenses? I am not saying that no one would want to come to the UK. All I am saying is that you'll end up with sloppy fourths as immigrants would rather move to the US, Canada, Germany, Australia and co then there. I can answer that myself as I probably won't be in the UK in a year's time.
You make it sound like Britain is some country that needs the EU to save itself from fecking up human rights, the foundations which seem to based in pure hysteria rather than actual factual or historic basis. Britain was one of the few countries PUSHING for there to be legal ramifications for breaking the UN's Universal Decleration of Human rights for christ sake.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36434855
The UK is saying that it will allow anyone currently living here from the EU to apply for settled status which would entitle them to the NHS etc. The EU doing that to current UK immigrants over there would not be at all the same as the UK isn't doing that.
It's based on the Conservatives and Theresa May's hard on for doing exactly that.
If you're confident that the Conservative Party will protect your rights then you're going to be in for a shock.
Have you got any policy paper/working document/cabinet leak etc to back that up?
Theresa May could sack off over a week of entitled holiday for workers tomorrow if she could somehow manage to make it pass a vote.
It's been an absolute fantasy of theirs since at least 2010 and was literally included in the 2015 manifesto.
The exact proposals have never been made clear, but all are couched in typical Tory bollocks about 'creeping infringement' and 'common sense'.
If you search the term 'British Bill of Rights' you'll find at least seven years of Conservative plans on this issue, and plenty of avenues for further reading.
Indeed, but if it's *that* easy to get a visa... then why not just have visa free movement (for going on holiday)? What's the point of the visa system?
Honestly, it's complete scaremongering and as absurd as some of the stuff from Leave during the EU campaign. This is the document, there is nothing in there that could realistically be considered to remove workers rights.
http://readinglists.ucl.ac.uk/items/0228C3DC-4B76-311C-DEF7-0F12767A4F0B.html
Even if there was, it would require parliament to vote it through the changes at a later date, you really think the Conservative party as a whole is going to vote through something that is suicidal to them?
I'm going to save you the trouble here and say that you probably want to read up on this a bit more before getting in to this debate. You've got 7 years of news to catch up on and you haven't been able to do it in the time between my reply and yours.
I know about the British Bill of Rights, I have asked for some specifics in something that has been written or said in the government that backs up what you are saying which you have not provided. If it's there, it shouldn't be hard to just send me a link and direct me to the correct page?
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In the late 90's and early 00's I worked for the EU, both in this country and at various times in other EU countries and if there is one thing I can tell you from that experience is that the EU is consistent about only one thing, it is its inability to reform itself, internally, there are far too many vested interests and as we all know, 'turkeys don't vote for Christmas'.
Also that was at a time when there were only a relatively few member countries involved in the EU, now there are 28 ( 27when we've left). It is a monolithic entity, prone to corruption and incompetence and total devoid of any meaningful democracy at its highest levels.
Europe does need co-operation, between sovereign countries, it does not need a United States of Europe, that will only become even remotely possible when all the economy's of members states align much better and there is only one currency.
Since we will never give up the Pound (Sterling) its right should leave and leave now! Its the only honest thing we can do!
Money. In Turkey they charged me for a visa as soon as i landed. They charged everyone going on holiday.
Could be, but few governments work quickly. I belive decisions like this need to be taken at EU level to stop competitive sacrifice of working rights
Again, you're asking me for information that is not in the slightest bit hidden. This isn't a secret, I'm not telling you some fanciful thing like 'Brexit is a good idea', it's been a fairly main point of the Conservatives agenda since they've been in power and there is literally 7 years of news, comments, and analysis on this very issue. There are comments from senior Conservatives on this matter, including Theresa May as both Home Secretary and Prime Minister, and they are easily found.
There's also censure from pressure groups, both national and international; civil rights campaigners; charities; and the UN.
All of which is why I'm spending my entire evening linking the thousands (probably hundreds of thousands tbh) of web pages that discuss an issue that is barely even remotely controversial when you're perfectly capable of finding it yourself.
I'm asking for 1 link. It would have taken you less time than that essay. What you are doing is presenting an argument and then expecting me to provide a source on your behalf for your argument.
So it's a money making exercise, not something that controls migration
They didn't vote against the EU, they voted against foreign people. They've been told for the past 30 years that foreign people are responsible for all their woes. They are in for a shock when Brexit doesn't turn out to be the cure all they are expecting.
They call them much worse things than arse holes
Actually what I'm asking you to do is be informed about issues that you are commenting on, because you weren't at the start and are stubbornly refusing to search for what I have told you to now. I'm not your Mum, you can step out into the big wide world without me holding your hand.
I'm not saying you have to agree with my assessment that to trust the Conservatives with your rights you'd have to be a fool, but to dismiss a near decade of discussion – by people far more qualified than you and I – on the issue as Leave campaign level nonsense without having read any of it is a terrible place to start from. You'll forgive me for not wanting to do that.
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I have to get visas every time I go to Nigeria and Angola - cost about €500 each visit - even though I directly employ local Nigerians and Angolans.
Can't say as I've ever seen 000's of illegal, economic migrants risking their lives across oceans and war zones to get to those two countries..
Of course it's about money.
And keeping out arse holes who might decide to live there but then spend all their time bitching about what shitty people Nigerians and Angolans are.
And it probably costs that much just to run the visa system
Aint that the truth
Erm. I was alive and breathing during the EU campaign, I read party manifesto's. You seem to have come to some assumption that I don't know what I am talking about. You do know how the notion of a discussion works and burden of proof right? You make a claim, you are the one expected to provide evidence of it.
Let's try it and see if you can get the hang of it.
Here is a point:
May stated in her 11 point plan during the election campaign that workers would keep the same rights
Here is the proof:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...leave-care-elderly-relatives-tory-government/
Do you want to give it a try, or shall we just stop it here?
1) This is an issue that extends beyond the EU referendum, I don't know why you think otherwise seeing as I have repeatedly stressed that this has been a part of the Conservative agenda since at least 2010. The removal of the safeguards provided by EU membership, and by extension the seeming desire by the Brexit team to end the jurisdiction of the ECJ and European Court of Human Rights is related, but not the cause here. If you remember (you were living and breathing) Theresa May actually campaigned to Remain in the EU but leave the ECHR – a very tricky proposition. This is not a Brexit issue.
2) Your OP criticised devilish for '[making] it sound like Britain is some country that needs the EU to save itself from fecking up human rights, the foundations which seem to based in pure hysteria rather than actual factual or historic basis'. Your 'point' presented in this post is about Theresa May pledging (funny how you trust a politician when it suits eh?) to protect workers rights, and your proof is the same.
3) Your 'proof' is from May (the month), in June May (the person) launched an attack on pesky Human Rights laws that get in the way of detaining terrorists and threatened to 'rip them up'. May's June speech took criticism from the UN whose Human Rights Chief who described them as a 'gift' to tyrants, and for the transparently cynical nature of their timing coming days after a terrorist attack in the lead up to the election – Zeid Ra’ad al-Hussein's opinion is well worth reading on this issue, but as I'm sure you've come across it during the extensive research you've done I won't bother linking you to it.
So in your short post attempting to demonstrate your credentials you seem to show a misunderstanding of what Human Rights actually are, you've managed to misrepresent Theresa May's stance on them (both historical and current), and you seem to have misunderstood why the Conservatives have built up a reputation for not being trusted on them.
BTW, whilst we're getting sarcy about burdens of proof I'm sure you're aware that it is considered unnecessary to provide citations for common knowledge. The Conservative attitude to the European Court of Human Rights, the Human Rights Act, and the European Convention of Human Rights certainly should be common knowledge, and if you don't know it it's easy enough to find out. Don't act like your ignorance (feigned or actual) towards it is a valid opinion to hold.
You're right though, the UK should not need the EU to prop up Human Rights in the UK, but if you trust this government on this matter you're either not paying attention, a fool, or both.
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Imagine how slow 27 governments work
Ok, good so we agree that May wants to rip up human rights laws.
Now we're on the same page I suggest you use your newly found Google skills to find out why others think that's a bad idea rather than parrot the arguments of a person who has been proven either to not understand them or to lie about them when it suits. I'd also suggest probably looking up the logical fallacy of 'tu quoque' too.
Out of interest, what is your primary source of news?
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Keep telling yourself that until you believe it.
Tories to improve or at least protect workers rights? 
Good luck with that.
Leave vote nothing to do with xenaphobia?
Perhaps you have missed the rise of the far right in numerous places including the US, UK and particularly here in Australia, where we do things to refugees that Trump only dreams of. Typical popularist bollocks - I know your lives aren't perfect and I'm going to show you the foreigner who is to blame.
Good luck with that.
Leave vote nothing to do with xenaphobia?
Perhaps you have missed the rise of the far right in numerous places including the US, UK and particularly here in Australia, where we do things to refugees that Trump only dreams of. Typical popularist bollocks - I know your lives aren't perfect and I'm going to show you the foreigner who is to blame.
That's not good, and nothing to aspire to.
I suspect there are quite a few non nigerian africans working in the country without a visa
Like a fish in Egypt, you're in de nile
I know, but any decision they take has real heft