That's not a bad analogy but, while I can forgive people in the mid-50s, just 10 or so years after the triumvirate summits that settled WWII, still struggling to adjust to Britain's reduced status, I really fail to get it in 2017. Option 1 - second most powerful member of the world's largest economic union. Option 2 - erm, great global trading nation, Liam Fox has agreed a deal with some atoll, and we can really on WTO rules (no other major country does and it doesn't cover services anyway). Ultimately, Brexit is an article of faith rather than reason for the people driving it.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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That's not a bad analogy but, while I can forgive people in the mid-50s, just 10 or so years after the triumvirate summits that settled WWII, still struggling to adjust to Britain's reduced status, I really fail to get it in 2017. Option 1 - second most powerful member of the world's largest economic union. Option 2 - erm, great global trading nation, Liam Fox has agreed a deal with some atoll, and we can really on WTO rules (no other major country does and it doesn't cover services anyway). Ultimately, Brexit is an article of faith rather than reason for the people driving it.
Ah, so 'desperation' is the new 'begging'. Good to see you're moving on.
I hope that the uk voter moves on and notice that they had been duped. The cards are heavily stacked in favour of the continent and the uk wont get a better deal then it currently has. This country deserve better then being sucked into some moronic tory catfight for power
Maybe its time to bring back the hanged drawn and quartered sentence for davies, johnson, the Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime and co.
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I know, it amazes me how all week the British politicians and press have been discussing what sort and how long a transitional deal we we will have, quite oblivious to the fact that whether we have one at all is in the hands of the EU in the first place. But we are where we are, Britain will carry on, no doubt damaged in the short term, but who knows, all the business gurus say change is good, maybe in ten years we'll be looking back on this as the new black wednesday. It's a good few hundred years since Britain was last battered to it's knees, by hook or by crook we keep going.
10 years is a large chunk of a working life. Will there be long-term benefits to Brexit? Possibly (and that is genuinely as much as I have heard from acquaintances in the leave wing of the Tory party), but, having rebuilt our economy over the last 30 years based on services rather than manufacturing, it is far from clear how we will reap benefits without access to the single market. And, as Keynes said, in the long run, we are all dead. At the moment, Brexit seems like some golf club bar braggadocio that got out of hand and now the boozers around the bar, never expecting to win, are desperately trying to come up with some proposals to address the 1,001 issues that have escaped from Pandora's Box.
Like I've said many times, blame the Tories. Actually blaming public schools wouldn't be a bad start either, as most of the biggest Tory leave cnuts seem to have come from them. There's many a post in the caf's referendum threads blaming the old, blaming the working class, the northerners and the uneducated, but it was the Tory public school wankers that led them over the top in the first place.
While I don't disagree, letting yourself be led by the nose should carry some responsibility and it seemed to me people were happy to be led by the nose in the case of the EU and still are. The only silver lining is that with time, these same people will realise and take action (not sure how) against the Westminster clowns/crooks.
Taking our country back.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...l-spanish-pensioners-immigrants-a7934881.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...l-spanish-pensioners-immigrants-a7934881.html
Hard to disagree.
I'll believe that when I see it.
I've yet to read anything about these business gurus who back Brexit. Unless of course you consider the Wetherspoons owner as a business guru.
I don't blame the Brexiteer voter for voting the way he did. The Brexiteers had a deal for everybody from hard brexit to unrestricted access to the single market without having to pay for it (the prosecco theory) right to a second referendum after Boris had renegotiated with Europe for a better deal. Who can ever beat that? I blame the politicians for this mess specifically the Tory Party and Ukip. I hope that they are made accountable for any mess they create and pay for it. You don't drag an entire country (and even continent) in a potential financial crisis causing all sort of problems to people's lives for some power grab.
Of course it is. Even if it were it doesn't get away from the hilarious truths in that article.
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He is everything I hate about the EU, I'd like to set fire to him and video it
The UnIndependant. Aren't they supposed to write unbiased un-opinionated articles?
Long term benefits of Brexit...
What are they exactly?
The EU will have trade deals with the USA, Japan, and Australia either before or shortly after we do. We will likely also have to renogitiate our existing free trade deals with South Korea, Mexico and Canada (TBI) amongst others.
So what are these long term benefits? Is it to start trading liberally with India again... The reason they don't buy greatly from us isnt because we're in the EU.
Are businesses going to set up subsidiaries here whilst we crack down on immigration? If they want an English speaking country that has access to both the EU and USA, then Canada is an obvious answer as well as Ireland after the EU and USA FTA is completed post Trump.
Of course we could theoretically fine-tune. agreements to suit our needs, but doing so will require the creation of huge expensive departments that dont exist at the moment, not to mention the expansion to our customs areas.
Brexit is a giant "f you" to neo-liberalism. No one should then claim we'll benefit from it
What are they exactly?
The EU will have trade deals with the USA, Japan, and Australia either before or shortly after we do. We will likely also have to renogitiate our existing free trade deals with South Korea, Mexico and Canada (TBI) amongst others.
So what are these long term benefits? Is it to start trading liberally with India again... The reason they don't buy greatly from us isnt because we're in the EU.
Are businesses going to set up subsidiaries here whilst we crack down on immigration? If they want an English speaking country that has access to both the EU and USA, then Canada is an obvious answer as well as Ireland after the EU and USA FTA is completed post Trump.
Of course we could theoretically fine-tune. agreements to suit our needs, but doing so will require the creation of huge expensive departments that dont exist at the moment, not to mention the expansion to our customs areas.
Brexit is a giant "f you" to neo-liberalism. No one should then claim we'll benefit from it
We have heard so much of that kind of stuff since Brexit it is little more than a cliched rant that makes you roll your eyes at this point.
Mark Steel is better than that. I enjoyed his series on histories great geniuses many years back.
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If only other countries would do the same. Is there anything to like about neo-liberalism?
Low prices of goods, reduced nationalist tendencies, much greater "production per person", rescuing millions of billions of people around the world from extreme poverty, etc.
BUT
Even if you yourself don't particularly favour neo-liberalism, claiming that the UK is going to benefit from being some sort of free trade haven post-brexit is madness.
You forgot Austerity
It is spot on though. The UK needs the EU workers. We are leaving the EU bases on a ludicrous strawman argument. A bit of sarcastic is the least the leave campaign deserves.
There has been an abundance of such commentary since day 0.
We need more to make sure we don't forget what a disaster it is and will continue to be.
It is absolutely, positively, definite that EU nationals will continue to be allowed to live and work in the UK post-Brexit.
They always have been, and they always wil be.
Articles like the one you linked to are just stupid.
For 2 years, then told to feck off
fecking hell, what has the EU done to you that's so bad you'd wish to do that?
I've asked him that quite a few times.
Something to do with family health and losing his job?
Enabled him to live and work in the Netherlands, a country he seems to love, far easier than if Freedom of Movement hadn't existed I think.
EU Nationals that are already here will almost certainly be able to stay
EU Nationals that are not here probably wont be able to edit:come and stay without a visa after a cut-off date
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https://www.ft.com/content/d88c72d8-9265-11e7-bdfa-eda243196c2c
If you're classed as a low-skilled worker, it is proposed that a work permit will last for 2 years, otherwise it will be 5. For perspective, Canada is 2 years, US is typically 1. You can apply to have them extended and then if you reach the criteria for citizenship you can apply for that.
But as said above, if you are here already it is proposed that you can apply for 'settled status' which will mean you won't need a visa.
Exactly....
And exactly how it should be.
All European countries were issuing work permits and residence permits to anyone with a bona fide job to go to or sufficient financial resources for decades before FoM throughout the EU without a job or sufficient financial resources.
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Why would they come if only allowed to stay for 2 years?
It will suit a lot of Eastern European workers anyway, especially your fruit pickers because a lot of them don't stay. They do the season and go back.
Why does anyone go to Canada/US/Australia/New Zealand? Why does anyone else from any country not within the EU come to the UK?
I've changed that from "come" to "stay"
If we need a visa to go on holiday to France, the Brexit has totally and utterly failed.
I don't agree with that. It depends on the level of bureaucracy involved to get one. If you can easily get a visa online then what is the big drama?
If people from the UK turn out to need a visa to enter ANY EU country, then it's the EU which has failed, not the UK.
People from lots of other non-EU countries don't need visas - Ukraine, for example.
You can't blame that one on the UK.
If, however, you mean a work visa to live and work in France, then tit-for-tat....You win some, you lose some....
Just my opinion, but ALL countires outside the EU impose restrictions / requirements and the UK would be quite right to follow. Doesn't mean they won't issue visas to people the UK needs, just not to those people it doesn't need.
People from lots of other non-EU countries don't need visas - Ukraine, for example.
You can't blame that one on the UK.
If, however, you mean a work visa to live and work in France, then tit-for-tat....You win some, you lose some....
Just my opinion, but ALL countires outside the EU impose restrictions / requirements and the UK would be quite right to follow. Doesn't mean they won't issue visas to people the UK needs, just not to those people it doesn't need.
It's closer than Australia?