Neither does he.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Neither does he.
tbf, he doesn't think much of anybody who isn't Trump.
A full Brexit means no single market , no customs union. WTO from scratch, all deals from scratch, it means abandoning everything. Deals take years to conclude and the Uk doesn't have enough negotiators to negotiate with everyone. Insanity.
I would. I like being part of Europe. I like free movement. Isolationism is for dick heads.
If Brexit turned out to be a massive failure, you'd still love it.
Pretty much nailed it.
The hard core brexiters dont care about making a success of Brexit. A 10% contraction in GDP and visas needed to travel to Europe be acceptable for them
Tosh
Its people like devilish that want it to be a failure. I hope its a massive success and other countries in Europe follow suit. I just cant see this Tory government pulling it off though, still, lets keep voting for them eh?
Doesn't matter if you vote Tory or Labour, they're both so divided. Both leaders couldn't care less if they're in, out or shaking it all about. Sounds more like the end of British political parties as we know it rather than the end of the EU.
So you want it to be a success. But only again because you want the end if the EU.
Great
Yes, I'd like to see a smiley happy successful europe without the eu. Nothing wrong with that.
First time in my lifetime that labour has a leader that could actually be me. If I bearded up and made a speech you'd think I was him.
Nohing wrong with it, but you cant claim that leaving the EU isnt *all* you care about; that you do want Britain to be a success outside of the EU, but only because you want others to leave the EU too.
Nope, not true. It is against the EU constitution for countries inside the Eurozone to negotiate individual trade deals. So it's either a deal with all of them or none of them
Yeah its like a Dutch circle party. If you don't know what that is then I will explain. Someone has a birthday party and when you arrive you congratulate everyone in the house one by one not just the person whos birthday it is, its the worst thing ever.
That's a crap analogy
For christ sake
Not at all, they also sit round and do nothing for the duration of the gathering, its sounding more eu like by the sentence. Plato would be proud of me
Bravo. And no wonder the Dutch hate each other.
You'd have a gathering but it would be shit because you wouldn't want to have a party to begin with as you don't want to interact with anyone else
erm what?
Is that a real thing that actually happens?
The DT is reporting that there's every chance "May will storm out of the negotiatons in September" and that this move "is for public consumption" to demonstrate how tough she can be. 
Rest of the article is Premium so couldn't read it.
Rest of the article is Premium so couldn't read it.
The DT is reporting that there's every chance "May will storm out of the negotiatons in September" and that this move "is for public consumption" to demonstrate how tough she can be.
Rest of the article is Premium so couldn't read it.
I wonder if the EU would use that as an excuse to consider the case closed and stop negotiation with the UK once and for all. Will the Tory government survive such an act?
Perfect way to get people believe it's all a plot by the EU.
As I say I couldn't read all the article but the impression was that it was part of a clever ploy. The DT is anti-EU so they may have leaked it to undermine her tactic - make it a real walkout and clean break. Cue a Vera Lynn song.
If negotiation stops than it will be obvious who did it. I wonder if the tory government has the votes to back that up. With TM being so politically weak she risks losing the government soon afterwards
The whole thing is thicker than an Agatha Christie plot.
As I say I couldn't read all the article but the impression was that it was part of a clever ploy. The DT is anti-EU so they may have leaked it to undermine her tactic - make it a real walkout and clean break. Cue a Vera Lynn song.
Ive yet to understand this clever ploy. There is every chance that the tory party would lose its wafer thin majority after that and the uk will have a new government to negotiate a new deal
I can only imagine that it's to get the country to back her (strong, remember) against the evil EU by painting the EU even more as the enemy whose aim is to bring us to heel. Which is why I find it intriguing that this strategy is made public months beforehand and by the DT.
But how would that work exactly? The negotiations will end, Westminster will implode with DUP, remainer Tory's and even moderate leavers such as Davis and Boris will go berserk and the UK will head to another GE. There had been articles about Boris/Davis showing discontent at May's zero tolerance with ECJ/immigration. If or/and by the time she convince the EU to return to the negotiation table she will probably lose her wafer thin majority
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Maybe it was originally to frighten the EU over the "divorce payment" issue or to place the blame on them for the failure of the talks ? A rapid end to the issue which would force the country and its parties to unite ? We'll have to wait and hope someome posts the whole article.
If only the EU were primarily interested in securing beneficial trade deals, we could have spared ourselves all of this trouble.
Leaving the EU doesn't make us isolationist, that is but a negative projection of the Remainer. Brexit is akin to a spot of gardening you might say, removing the political tangle that has spread like a pernicious ivy during our membership.
People can mock the idea of a global Britain, however it is a perfectly reasonable objective when put in the context of our European Union history. It was not even a decade-and-a-half ago that the A8 accession took places, yet for some it is as if they were always present. What's to say that 10-15 years down the line we don't look at our new relationships in such a manner? An end to FoM perhaps, but lower barriers to movement with other places. The UK-Brussels story was decades in the making, and so shall this be.
For me, i think this boils down to outlook. I see Europe as its distinct and vibrant nation states, whereas supporters of the 'project' see this...grand singular Europe, a vision which carries no instinctive or emotional loyalty from my perspective.
Leaving the EU doesn't make us isolationist, that is but a negative projection of the Remainer. Brexit is akin to a spot of gardening you might say, removing the political tangle that has spread like a pernicious ivy during our membership.
People can mock the idea of a global Britain, however it is a perfectly reasonable objective when put in the context of our European Union history. It was not even a decade-and-a-half ago that the A8 accession took places, yet for some it is as if they were always present. What's to say that 10-15 years down the line we don't look at our new relationships in such a manner? An end to FoM perhaps, but lower barriers to movement with other places. The UK-Brussels story was decades in the making, and so shall this be.
For me, i think this boils down to outlook. I see Europe as its distinct and vibrant nation states, whereas supporters of the 'project' see this...grand singular Europe, a vision which carries no instinctive or emotional loyalty from my perspective.
And what happens if the EU doesn't get frightened by it? How on earth can she force parties like labour (who are a sniff away from power), the SNP and Lib Dems (both pro EU) and even her own people (Hammond is pro EU, Davis/Boris are leavers but disagree with TM's zero tolerance on immigration/ECJ) to work together? She cant play bluff now that she's so weak politically
If only the Brexit party weren't so obsessed with immigration. The UK would still retain unrestricted access to the single market and still be able to seal deals of its own (the Swiss model). That's the best of two worlds and yet......it would still imply freedom of movement of people.
Since it refuse to give European people equal rights then I fail to understand why the Brits should get unrestricted access to the European market. No bloc will ever accept that (not just the EU but India, the US etc)
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It's quite possible to be somewhere in the middle; keen on the idea of nations retaining their sovereignty and remaining distinct from each other, while still liking the idea of increased unity and cooperation all the same. I'd imagine some of the countries ravished by conflict during World War II are probably not to dismayed at the prospect of becoming more 'singular' than being a divided mess, even if they remain proud of their own, distinct nations.
The European Union is approaching a crossroads: Britain could choose to faff about whilst paying for things it doesn't much agree with, or break with that flawed status quo. Being caught somewhere in the middle was part of the problem.
Telegraph:
Not sure that's going to catch on compared to the divorce analogy
My number one frustration with this government, is how badly they are selling or explaining 'Global Britain.' Brexit so far has be insular, xenophobic and fearful.
Yes there are potential long-term upsides to Brexit (not that I'm saying they outweigh the long-term downsides). A free trade deal with the USA is possible, although by the time we leave the EU, Trump will probably be gone, and I believe there is a higher chance the USA will prioritise a trade deal with the EU. Or maybe you want free movement in the anglosphere; Australia, Canada, New Zealand and lower barriers elsewhere. Great, I've spoken about this many times. More power to you, although I really can't see the public being sold on this new free movement area after leaving the EU.
The truth is, if we want Global Britain, it start's with a soft Brexit. It's inescapable. If we want to be a launch pad for US companies into Europe, we need a soft Brexit. If we want to be a launch pad for EU companies into the USA, we need a soft Brexit. If we want lower barriers on freedom of movement to the Anglosphere, we need a (successful) soft Brexit.
Whatever this 'Global Britain' concept is, it requires a Soft Brexit. Not this insular, protectionist, fearful and xenophobic Brexit we have right now.
You can't just decide that Remainers see Europe as the EU and that Leavers see Europe as 28 vibrant states. A 10 book encyclopedia of Europe would be oversimplifying it.
Europe is history; empire, theatre, Rome, democracy, monarchy, war, genocide, Greece, renaissance and so on. It's politics and freedom; Northern Ireland, Catalonia, Basque, Flanders, Scotland. It's friendship. It's peace.
On the latter two, you might find examples of friendship in the darkest hours of European history, but you would struggle to find more obvious examples of peaceful corporation than within the EU.
We are leaving the EU. It will continue without us.