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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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Stanley Road said:
Which eu countries have employed clowns and are and arent doing great in the eu?

Malta is a tax haven, should be doing well, fully approved by JC Junk,
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Malta is a former uk colony and it retains most of its law. If malta is a tax haven then so is the uk

Oxfam puts us at 4th place behind the Netherlands (1st), Belgium (2nd) and Cyprus (3rd). We're just 1 indicator point more then Latvia, Luxembourg and Hungary who are all joint 5th

http://www.independent.com.mt/artic...rate-tax-haven-Oxfam-International-6736159237

Of these 33 indicators, Malta fit the bill as regards 14 of them. According to Oxfam’s analysis, the Netherlands is the EU’s top tax haven for corporations (having scored on 17 indicators), followed by Belgium (16 indicators), and Cyprus (15 indicators). Malta is the fourth with 14 indicators, while Latvia, Luxembourg and Hungary share fifth place with 13 indicators each.

Maybe you can tell us what it feels living in a tax haven yourself
 
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Full bodied red said:
No bloody wonder.

http://www.money-go-round.eu/Country.aspx?id=MT
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Malta isn't a net contributor just yet but the differences these days between what it gives back and what is taking is relatively small. Soon enough we'll be net contributors which is fair enough. The EU is far more then that. It provides each country unrestricted access to a rich market, a professional team who can seal trade deals with so many countries on our behalf but from a position of strength etc.


There's a reason why Brexiters seem obsessed about getting a deal with this 'cursed EU' they hate

https://www.euractiv.com/section/al...es-to-dwarf-britains-eu-budget-contributions/
 
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devilish said:
Malta is a former uk colony and it retains most of its law. If malta is a tax haven then so is the uk

Oxfam puts us at 4th place behind the Netherlands (1st), Belgium (2nd) and Cyprus (3rd). We're just 1 indicator point more then Latvia, Luxembourg and Hungary who are all joint 5th

http://www.independent.com.mt/artic...rate-tax-haven-Oxfam-International-6736159237

Of these 33 indicators, Malta fit the bill as regards 14 of them. According to Oxfam’s analysis, the Netherlands is the EU’s top tax haven for corporations (having scored on 17 indicators), followed by Belgium (16 indicators), and Cyprus (15 indicators). Malta is the fourth with 14 indicators, while Latvia, Luxembourg and Hungary share fifth place with 13 indicators each.

Maybe you can tell us what it feels living in a tax haven yourself
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I have said on here multuple times about NL tax avoidence schemes but no one listened necause they are too busy moaning about the uk becoming one, its like the remain crowd have selective hearing amd you are the same, so uk becoming a tax free haven is just falling into line with some other eu countries,

Again, name the country's that have appointed clowns in the eu,
 
Full bodied red said:
And the answer to the 5th question is ??

Or should that be the 1st question ??
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Sorry, it's the first I didn't answered to. They have the mission to make EU laws applied and the right of initiative but on the last point, the EU council as the last word.
 
Stanley Road said:
I have said on here multuple times about NL tax avoidence schemes but no one listened necause they are too busy moaning about the uk becoming one, its like the remain crowd have selective hearing amd you are the same, so uk becoming a tax free haven is just falling into line with some other eu countries,

Again, name the country's that have appointed clowns in the eu,
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Malta is the perfect example that this ‘EU Southern states are treated badly’ boo hoo is a myth. The real problem in the Southern side of Europe is not the EU but mismanagement. Take Greece as an example. They lived beyond their means for decades, with PMs closing an eye or two to benefit scroungers. Should their economic meltdown be blamed on the EU? No.

Italy is yet another classic example. Their political structure is a mess and their politicians are a disgrace. Their parties keep imploding on a regular basis because of scandal only to return under a different name but with the same people around . FFS next elections will be probably be fought off between a Farage like comedian and a professional comedian. If voters keep voting people with neither tertiary education nor work ethics as MEPs can they blame the EU if these people can’t comprehend what’s going on? Should the EU issue European politics for dummies for the likes of Farage and Salvini?

The EU is far from perfect and there’s a lot of reform that need to be made. For example should Southern states nanny immigrants on the Northern country’s behalf? After all Greece and Malta didn’t bomb Libya or Iraq did they? Another example is that its ridiculous that such a rich continent rely on third countries for defence. That’s one (and only argument) I fully agree with Trump on. There again for a number countries it’s the only solid political framework they have in a sea of madness.

Regarding your comment. The UK is pretty much pro business itself. Malta didn't re-invent the wheel it kept the good parts of the legislations it inherited like any successful former colony would do and both countries are benefiting from it. I am sure that the UK will keep being pro business as it always did. The trouble with big countries is that military, NHS etc need alot of £££ so there's a level of tax cuts it can afford
 
devilish said:
The EU is far from perfect and there’s a lot of reform that need to be made. For example should Southern states nanny immigrants on the Northern country’s behalf? After all Greece and Malta didn’t bomb Libya or Iraq did they? Another example is that its ridiculous that such a rich continent rely on third countries for defence. That’s one (and only argument) I fully agree with Trump on. There again for a number countries it’s the only solid political framework they have in a sea of madness.
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But is it up to Greece and Italy to come up with a solution for the immigrants or a collective European solution? Because not much is happening very fast and I know who I blame for that.
 
Stanley Road said:
But is it up to Greece and Italy to come up with a solution for the immigrants or a collective European solution? Because not much is happening very fast and I know who I blame for that.
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What is happening in Greece and Italy is the result of warmongers who cause war and sell weapons to regimes and then expect others to foot the consequences of it.
 
devilish said:
What is happening in Greece and Italy is the result of warmongers who cause war and sell weapons to regimes and then expect others to foot the consequences of it.
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You mean like France bombing Libya? It sounds to me like you think the EU have no responsibility to the immigrants in southern countries but want full responsibility over how they run their economies.
 
Stanley Road said:
You mean like France bombing Libya? It sounds to me like you think the EU have no responsibility to the immigrants in southern countries but want full responsibility over how they run their economies.
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France is one of them but there is also the UK, the US and Russia.

And I think you didn't read my posts at all.
 
devilish said:
France is one of them but there is also the UK, the US and Russia.

And I think you didn't read my posts at all.
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I did read them but they send mixed messages. So the countries you mention should be helping ease the burden in Greece & Italy? I thought giving Erdogan Billions was the solution. Also there are other EUropen countries that have put troops on the ground but that doesn't help you with your constant digs at the UK and US.
 
Stanley Road said:
I did read them but they send mixed messages. So the countries you mention should be helping ease the burden in Greece & Italy? I thought giving Erdogan Billions was the solution. Also there are other EUropen countries that have put troops on the ground but that doesn't help you with your constant digs at the UK and US.
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I think that people who cause and benefit from war either directly or indirectly should be footing the consequences of it. I find it disgusting that countries like Malta, Italy but also other countries like Lebanon and Turkey are taking the brunt of such immigration wave. While not alone, the UK and the US are the main players which caused this ridiculous situation by forcing 'democracy' into non UK/US friendly countries (Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan) and by appeasing/arming dictatorships and regimes (ex Saudi Arabia and the Shah) in UK/US friendly countries.

When Malta first entered the EU, we found plenty of hostility on this regard. Basically the EU said live with it while making it sure that we adhere to the ridiculous Dublin 2 convention that put a ridiculous burden on Southern Countries most of whom had never caused or benefited from this wars in the first place. Having said that, I feel that the EU is moving to the right direction on this issue. Treaties with countries like Turkey can help the EU manage immigration better and there's some real pressure to set up an EU common immigration policy with a sound mandatory burden sharing in place. If the EU sets up a proper EU army then it can defend itself while starving the UK/US from bases and military prowess they often rely on to launch their agressive policy in the ME.
 
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Full bodied red said:
Yeah...I know it's predominantly anti-EU....But it's not as easy to fake news about $70 billion companies as it is with anonymous phone-in callers.

Anyway your own reference - https://www.euractiv.com - is hardly a beacon of impartiality.
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I don't know UK politics enough to give an assessment of what's happening at the moment here. However I do know loads of politicians in my country and I assure you, Brexit brought a deluge of companies on our way. I happen to be close friend of Malta's main contractor and he literally cant keep up with demand from foreign companies who want office space.

It seems that Brexit is the best thing happening to Malta since its independence.
 
devilish said:
Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan
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Its not like there wasn't conflict in these countries before European and us armies got involved, did Germany foot the bill for all the shit they caused in Europe during the wars? Have they paid every penny back? or were they actually helped to get back on their feet by other countries?

To me the Moral issue of making money from selling arms is not as bad as places like India and Turkey having 12 year old kids making clothes for companies like Zara in sweatshops. So Turkey, while you think they can help, are doing nothing for child refugees.
 
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devilish said:
I don't know UK politics enough to give an assessment of what's happening at the moment here. However I do know loads of politicians in my country and I assure you, Brexit brought a deluge of companies on our way. I happen to be close friend of Malta's main contractor and he literally cant keep up with demand from foreign companies who want office space.

It seems that Brexit is the best thing happening to Malta since its independence.
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Then you should be lining up with us - UK out of the EU asap, not five years of negotiations.
 
Stanley Road said:
Its not like there wasn't conflict in these countries before European and us armies got involved, did Germany foot the bill for all the shit they caused in Europe during the wars? Have they paid every penny back? or were they actually helped to get back on their feet by other countries?

To me the Moral issue of making money from selling arms is not as bad as places like India and Turkey having 12 year old kids making clothes for companies like Zara in sweatshops. So Turkey, while you think they can help, are doing nothing for child refugees.
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Its way different! Sweatshops are a necessary evil that a poor country must endure to build the necessary economy to thrive for something better. Every country endured it, including yours and my own. My grandfather started to work at age 11. He was lucky not to have to do it fulltime as he came from a relatively well off family with their own business, which meant he could afford going to school. Others were far less lucky (ex my grandmother's family). However that work provided them with food on the table for them and their family.

These wars have no benefit for those enduring them whatsoever. Iraq, Libya, Syria are not better off thanks to the wars they endured and will remain a hell hole for a long long time because of it. Same thing about their neighbours whose economy is put under test by thousands and millions of refugees pouring from every direction. No one is benefitting from Saudi Arabia being so fundamentalist or the desengration of countries such as Iraq or Afghanistan apart of course from the warlords, those who are selling them weapons and groups such as ISIS
 
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Full bodied red said:
Y



Then you should be lining up with us - UK out of the EU asap, not five years of negotiations.
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Believe it or not I don't wish any harm to this country. I wish it to thrive. Hence why I am pissed off of this big shot at the foot.
 
devilish said:
Its way different! Sweatshops are a necessary evil that a poor country must endure to build the necessary economy to thrive for something better. Every country endured it, including yours and my own
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That's just absurd, I doubt these countries are benefitting at all, maybe a couple of sweatshop owners but that's it. Looking at it from your point of view one could say selling arms leads to wars, causes refugee crisis, fills sweatshops to benefit economies, good thing, win win right?

No of course not, its immoral, companies that have goods made in sweat shops should be closed down.
 
Stanley Road said:
Its not like there wasn't conflict in these countries before European and us armies got involved, did Germany foot the bill for all the shit they caused in Europe during the wars? Have they paid every penny back? or were they actually helped to get back on their feet by other countries?

To me the Moral issue of making money from selling arms is not as bad as places like India and Turkey having 12 year old kids making clothes for companies like Zara in sweatshops. So Turkey, while you think they can help, are doing nothing for child refugees.
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I grew up in Germany during some of the 50s and then again during some of the 60s.

I've always believed the basis for Germany's rebirth and economic prosperity that we now see, was that for most of my time there there were 2 million+ US, UK and French military personnel and their families stationed there as part of the Cold War. All these people ( we were one of them ) spent all their income into the German economy but didn't take anything out of it. They had their own schools, hospitals, etc, which cost the German Government nothing, and it's difficult to imagine what a fantastic set of circumstances that was for Germany. Imagine having two million immigrants come into France or the UK who you don't have to find jobs for; spend all their money in France or the UK; don't cost the French or UK Government a single pound for health services and education and housing; and don't qualify for the countries' Social Security and Pensions systems. Even UKIP would support that.

And the military also provided hundreds of thousands of jobs for local contractors and suppliers when half of Germany was still a massive bombsite.

.Meanwhile, German industry was getting cheap loans from the UN to help rebuild their manufacturing base with new factories / tooling / etc and importing cheap labour from Jugoslavia and Turkey to man their factories and coal mines and rebuild their cities.

Not really Germany's fault that it was like that - everyone was shit scared of the Russians, and Germany just prospered from it.
 
Stanley Road said:
That's just absurd, I doubt these countries are benefitting at all, maybe a couple of sweatshop owners but that's it. Looking at it from your point of view one could say selling arms leads to wars, causes refugee crisis, fills sweatshops to benefit economies, good thing, win win right?

No of course not, its immoral, companies that have goods made in sweat shops should be closed down.
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No business man would be willing to invest in a country with ridiculously poor infrastructure and a population with barely any education at all unless its worth his while. Thanks to these companies my country was able to keep most of its people employed and through taxes generated by these companies it was able to build its infrastructure which was virtually non existant at the time. Soon enough the salaries increased and these companies moved elsewhere.

Causing wars and Selling weapons to regimes bring nothing but the destruction of that society and its infrastructure. Thousands are killed because of war and hordes of refugees would have to move elsewhere (most in neighbouring countries). These countries tend not to have the infrastructure to give them their basic needs let alone integrate them successfully. As said before the only people benefiting of them are warlords, those whose got a thriving weapon industry and ISIS.
 
Full bodied red said:
I grew up in Germany during some of the 50s and then again during some of the 60s.

I've always believed the basis for Germany's rebirth and economic prosperity that we now see, was that for most of my time there there were 2 million+ US, UK and French military personnel and their families stationed there as part of the Cold War. All these people ( we were one of them ) spent all their income into the German economy but didn't take anything out of it. They had their own schools, hospitals, etc, which cost the German Government nothing, and it's difficult to imagine what a fantastic set of circumstances that was for Germany. Imagine having two million immigrants come into France or the UK who you don't have to find jobs for; spend all their money in France or the UK; don't cost the French or UK Government a single pound for health services and education and housing; and don't qualify for the countries' Social Security and Pensions systems. Even UKIP would support that.

And the military also provided hundreds of thousands of jobs for local contractors and suppliers when half of Germany was still a massive bombsite.

.Meanwhile, German industry was getting cheap loans from the UN to help rebuild their manufacturing base with new factories / tooling / etc and importing cheap labour from Jugoslavia and Turkey to man their factories and coal mines and rebuild their cities.

Not really Germany's fault that it was like that - everyone was shit scared of the Russians, and Germany just prospered from it.
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On the other hand, WW2 was the result of the victors blaming everyone on the Germans and expecting it to foot all the bill.

I think that those suffering from war need to be helped and war mustn't become profitable for those who waging it.
 
devilish said:
On the other hand, WW2 was the result of the victors blaming everyone on the Germans and expecting it to foot all the bill.

I think that those suffering from war need to be helped and war mustn't become profitable for those who waging it.
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Too idealistic by far.

Germany DID start WW1 and WW2.

After WW1, they got what Hitler managed to persuade many Germans was a punitive deal from the Allies, and which ultimately led to WW2.

I won't argue about the war reparations, whether too much or too little, but not an unreasonable apportionment of blame, I think.
 
WW1 was a land grab, empires trying to get one over on each other. A real shit stain on the continents history. And it definitely lead the path for WW2, the genocide's on the German government though.
 
Full bodied red said:
After WW1, they got what Hitler managed to persuade many Germans was a punitive deal from the Allies, and which ultimately led to WW2.
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To be fair it was a punitive deal, especially considering the great depression also devastated an already broken German economy. At one point when Germany had been trying extremely hard to meet its obligations under Versaille, the French marched in with a load of troops over a late delivery of hundreds of thousands of wooden telegraph poles. That kind of thing causes genuine resentment.
 
Full bodied red said:
Too idealistic by far.

Germany DID start WW1 and WW2.

After WW1, they got what Hitler managed to persuade many Germans was a punitive deal from the Allies, and which ultimately led to WW2.

I won't argue about the war reparations, whether too much or too little, but not an unreasonable apportionment of blame, I think.
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Ironically neither wars were started by Germany. In WW1 Austria started the war after a Serbian separatist shot the crown prince. Germany entered into it as allies just like Russia did. In WW2 it was Britain and France who declared war with Germany not viceversa although I agree that Hitler had to be stopped.

The treaty of Versailles was a punitive deal, the worst of its kind. In some ways it reminds me of the Dublin 2 which puts ridiculously amount of pressure on the Southern European nations in terms of immigration and the pressure war torn neighbouring countries are feeling in terms of mass immigration. Sure there's alot of difference between one another. However the result seem to be the same = extremism.

I don't think that kicking a fallen enemy is wise as much as I disagree in making war profitable.
 
Kentonio said:
To be fair it was a punitive deal, especially considering the great depression also devastated an already broken German economy. At one point when Germany had been trying extremely hard to meet its obligations under Versaille, the French marched in with a load of troops over a late delivery of hundreds of thousands of wooden telegraph poles. That kind of thing causes genuine resentment.
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The French, heh ?

I know nothing about the WW1 Reparations - were they impossible or just vindictive ?

The German people saw reparations as a national humiliation; the German Government worked to undermine the validity of the Treaty of Versailles and the requirement to pay. British economist John Maynard Keynes called the treaty a Carthaginian peace that would economically destroy Germany. His arguments had a profound effect on historians, politicians, and the public at large. Despite Keynes' arguments and those by later historians supporting or reinforcing Keynes' views, the consensus of contemporary historians is that reparations were not as intolerable as the Germans or Keynes had suggested and were within Germany's capacity to pay had there been the political will to do so. - Wiki
 
@Full bodied red impossible. In most neutral text and historical books, they are pointed as a key reason for the rise of Hitler and WW2. I can give more detail later after work if needed.
 
devilish said:
Ironically neither wars were started by Germany. In WW1 Austria started the war after a Serbian separatist shot the crown prince. Germany entered into it as allies just like Russia did. In WW2 it was Britain and France who declared war with Germany not viceversa although I agree that Hitler had to be stopped.

The treaty of Versailles was a punitive deal, the worst of its kind. In some ways it reminds me of the Dublin 2 which puts ridiculously amount of pressure on the Southern European nations in terms of immigration and the pressure war torn neighbouring countries are feeling in terms of mass immigration. Sure there's alot of difference between one another. However the result seem to be the same = extremism.

I don't think that kicking a fallen enemy is wise as much as I disagree in making war profitable.
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Almost correct.

WW1 -

The Austrian-Hungarian Empire declared war on Serbia on 28.07.1914.

Germany, as an ally of the Austrian Empire, then declared war on Russia - a Serbian ally - on 01.08.1914, after the Russians refused a German demand not to moblise its armies to help defend Serbia. Strangely, The Empire didn't declare war on Russia until a few days later.

On the same date - 01.08.1914 - France started to mobilise its armies in preparation to help the Russians in the event that Germany invaded Russia.

On 03.08.1914 Germany then declared war on France and invaded Belgium and Luxemburg on 04.08.1914- who were both neutral countries - to enable an invasion of France.

Subsequently, Britain declared war on Germany on 04.08.1914 as a result of Germany's invasion of neutral Belgium.

So while I agree with you that WW1 started as a result of the incident in Sarajevo, Germany was the first country to declare war - on both Russia and France - and so escalated what was a local conflict between The Empire and Serbia into WW1.

Bugger - just rereading this thread and I said The Empire decalred war on Serbia in 2014 !!!!

So edited, of course.
 
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NM said:
@Full bodied red impossible. In most neutral text and historical books, they are pointed as a key reason for the rise of Hitler and WW2. I can give more detail later after work if needed.
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Like I said - I've no idea whether they were reasonable or punitive, but absolutely, positively, definitely did lead to Hitler's subsequent rise to power.
 
Full bodied red said:
I grew up in Germany during some of the 50s and then again during some of the 60s.

I've always believed the basis for Germany's rebirth and economic prosperity that we now see, was that for most of my time there there were 2 million+ US, UK and French military personnel and their families stationed there as part of the Cold War. All these people ( we were one of them ) spent all their income into the German economy but didn't take anything out of it. They had their own schools, hospitals, etc, which cost the German Government nothing, and it's difficult to imagine what a fantastic set of circumstances that was for Germany. Imagine having two million immigrants come into France or the UK who you don't have to find jobs for; spend all their money in France or the UK; don't cost the French or UK Government a single pound for health services and education and housing; and don't qualify for the countries' Social Security and Pensions systems. Even UKIP would support that.

And the military also provided hundreds of thousands of jobs for local contractors and suppliers when half of Germany was still a massive bombsite.

.Meanwhile, German industry was getting cheap loans from the UN to help rebuild their manufacturing base with new factories / tooling / etc and importing cheap labour from Jugoslavia and Turkey to man their factories and coal mines and rebuild their cities.

Not really Germany's fault that it was like that - everyone was shit scared of the Russians, and Germany just prospered from it.
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Germany's recovery to world manufacturing powerhouse within 10 years was truly miraculous, and largely down to the removal of strict regulations crippling countries like the UK.
 
Thinking May is this 'strong and stable leader' that is going to take Britain to new heights and guide Britain through the shitfest that is and will be Brexit, is like a Utd fan saying Moyes should of had more time.
 
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