Maybe. I've long since given up trying to figure out what motivates people any more. A lot of the agricultural stuff is really physically demanding work though, and apparently pretty skilled too.
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Maybe. I've long since given up trying to figure out what motivates people any more. A lot of the agricultural stuff is really physically demanding work though, and apparently pretty skilled too.
Genuine question and not trying to be provocative....
Who did this work, say, 15 yers ago before the cheaper Eastern European labourers arrived in the UK ?
France has far more agricultural workers than the UK, but I suspect that a much lower percentage of those are from outside of France.
That is a rather peculiar example though.
I still remember the time when we used to see English cleaners back in the day even at my uncles house in London. Now you dont see one in fecking Kent ffs. Same for plumbers and painters. One thing is clear we brits will feck over anyone to save a couple of quid an hour.
Immigrants apparently.
http://theconversation.com/who-picked-british-fruit-and-veg-before-migrant-workers-63279
I suspect you may be wrong about that.
https://qz.com/518409/french-farmer-without-migrants-european-agriculture-will-not-survive/
I'd say its a fairly relevant one. Seasonal agricultural workers account for 80,000 jobs, and 98% come from the EU.
https://www.ft.com/content/7ceb876c-b58d-11e6-961e-a1acd97f622d
One thing is clear we brits will feck over anyone to save a couple of quid an hour.
True that.
It is outright delusional.
I posted it earlier. Are you really going to pretend racism didn't have a significant effect on the outcome of the referendum?
Amazing worker rights and environmental standards in China! I can't wait for the UK to match them and gain a free trade deal!!!
An effect ? Of course, every country has racists - the UK is no different. But to claim that the EU needs to discourage other countries from leaving, as you did, to discourage racism was a bollocks answer.
And has been said many times on here, if the UK chooses to restrict immigration, that is no different to the EU which itself does not permit unrestricted immigration from outside the EU.
Does that make the EU equally racist ?
But I bet you still buy stuff made in China yourself, and pay Import Duties / Tariffs which the EU gladly collects off you.
And. if I may say, you have a very, very serious misunderstanding and false impression of the UK if you really believe that it will, at any time, lower its standards of employment and environmental laws to those of China.
Thats total rubbish. Swiss have a deal with China. Does not mean the swiss workers have the same rights as chinese.
So you're saying we could have traded just as much with China from inside the EU as we will from outside?
Cynic, it's red, white and blue Brexit.I ran out of fingers. Is the answer Land of Hope and Glory?
Interesting thing about the UK - never heard of that scheme, although I do remember lots of Irish farm laboureres in Cheshire but just always assumed that they were living in the UK permanently, like the famous Irish labourers on building sites.
As for France, I know that it is now quite normal to have temporary immigrant labour for the Vendanges. It used to be one of the traditional 'students jobs' like in the UK students were always hired by the Post Office for a month or so just before Christmas to deliver all the sesonal mail and parcels. Maybe French students can't be arsed these days.
But I think there might be a difference between temporary agricultural jobs in France and permanent agricultural jobs in the UK - maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see much immigrant labour in the vineyards round here outside the Vendange
The same as, presumably.
But who knows, the Chinese might buy more UK products without import tariffs at their end.
I don't think you understood what I wrote (no surprise there). We voted out because a bunch of power hungry, rabid right wingers who want to turn this country into a free market fantasy used racism to win a vote to leave the EU. Having seen the success of the tactic in this country the right wing of the EU will try to do the same. The EU are aware of this hence the answer to your questions, why would anyone want to leave the EU and why would the EU fear it?
Read it and weep
No. But it does mean Swiss workers have to compete with Chinese workers with no tarrifs to protect them
Mostly not. I think you have somewhat incomplete idea of free trade. Trade deals are only signed in areas where areas where the local industry and workers dont get fecked (alteast not too much).
General idea of a free trade deal is to allow non competing parts of the economy of both parties an advantage over any third party. Not to have a death-match among the competing industries of two participants. For example, since the Swiss-chinese deal, most competing Richemont brands were eating the LVMH brands alive in the chinese market till the sales saturated (and also the chinese economy slumped). This does not mean that the Chinese will let in swiss banks into their economy or the swiss would let chinese food (on a mass scale) in their supermarkets.
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Right, so the trade deal isn't the comprehensive one we have currently with being a member of the EU. All goods, all services, one set of rules
Still appears some people are living on Mars.
A lot of people are going to be disappointed.
A lot of people are going to be disappointed.
A trade deal is never supposed to be that way. The EU us not a free trade deal but a union with free trade being a part of that. The participants have had to sacrifice their competing industries like British automotive sector and Swiss/German banking and other FS(to some extent).
In someways the EU countries have paid such a large price for this project that it seems completely pointless to un-tether now. It almost seems like quitting midway between an 15hour tattoo.
And I'll repeat....
Are there 16 million racists in the UK ? Of course not.
Are there 16 million people in the UK who who were persuaded to vote leave because they were persuded by racist arguments ? Of course not.
Are there any other EU countries where the majority of the population are racists ? Of course not.
Accusing people of racism is just a cop-out and typical of the liberal left when things don't go their way and they can somehow introduce racism into their argument - for fecks sake, leave it out. Restrictions on immigration and the need for work permits might seem like racism to you, but not to almost every country in the world. Like I said, the EU itself is no different when it comes to immigration, but of course you don't see or don't want to see that.
And I think Mervyn King might object to being called a rabid, right wing, racist. Come to think of it, so do I. Both he and I wanted out of the EU because of what it is - absolutely nothing to do with restricting immigration.
And I don't take anything in the UK language version of Pravda any more seriously than I take anything seriously in the Daily HateMail. The Government has already said that all current EU compliant / necessary Employment Law will be incorporated into revised UK Employment Law post BREXIT. Yes, I know they're politicians so they're probably lying because their lips are moving, but let's wait and see before believing anything in the Guardian about the EU and BREXIT any more than we believe what we read in the Daily Hatemail about immigrants. Believe both or believe neither - I believe neither.
Everyone sacrifices a bit so everyone ends up on a level playing field, seems to fit the British sense of fair play quite well
Haha. That is whats fed to us plebs anyway.
But seriously though, no one wants to end up on a level playing field with the bulgarians... not even the poles.
I never said there were 16 million racists. But it was racism that won the referendum. Enough people were persuaded by racist rhetoric around migration to vote out
Migration is good for this country, good for its people, goods for its economy. I've shown you an example of the bile that's been published by our papers, feeding hatred and fear of the outsider so these twerp can wrest power from the one institution they don't control.
Merve the swerve is right wing economically, hence a union like the eu not to his liking
You might be immune to the charms of the mail but there are a lot of people who are not. I don't trust the Tories, no 'top down organisation of the NHS' is what they said in 2010
Juncker merely hinted towards the fact that what you think no one's in Westminster is doing ain't gonna fly. He just signaled May that her "Bend over and let us cherry pick what we want"-approach won't bear fruit.
The very fact that you're throwing a tantrum over his positioning in the matter, contradicts your own statement of "I don't anyone is doing that". Of course the Brexiteers are. "They need us more than we need them" and all.
But at least there's one thing you can find comfort in: It's always been the EUs fault and it continues to be if the return to the glory days of the Empire shouldn't pan out as envisioned
What a fecking prick anyone would be to think that (criticise the post not the man) .Trade, the rest no.
Seriously, all they want is the UK to leave. As Merkel said, the UK can't be trusted. The EU cant afford ignoring Trump as the US is too big to ignore but we can ignore any island standing between the two.
If of course the UK want some sort of access to a market that buys half of your exports then you've got to pay for the service and obey the rules of the Union. The more access the UK wants the more rules/money it will have to obey/pay.
EU: Well Mrs May, what sort of deal do you actually want?
May: Waffle, waffle, waffle, I'll answer that question, waffle, waffle , waffle, we want the best deal for the UK and not a bad deal, waffle, waffle
EU: So?
May: I've no idea
May: Waffle, waffle, waffle, I'll answer that question, waffle, waffle , waffle, we want the best deal for the UK and not a bad deal, waffle, waffle
EU: So?
May: I've no idea
Now anti-Semitic attacks. What the hell is happening to Britain?
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jewish-family-pelted-with-stones-on-kent-beach-1.439312
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/jewish-family-pelted-with-stones-on-kent-beach-1.439312
Really good FT article about how difficult this will be, and what needs to happen
https://www.ft.com/content/f1435a8e-372b-11e7-bce4-9023f8c0fd2e
https://www.ft.com/content/f1435a8e-372b-11e7-bce4-9023f8c0fd2e
I don't think anyone is expecting a free ride.
There is no 'they'. On this issue, as on others, different EU nations have different views.
That's the reason the EU has no long term future. It's falling from a great height, along the way declaring to the rest of the world "We're fine - in perfect health. Couldn't be better!" The inevitable collision with planet Earth will show otherwise.
But i thought that brussels ruled everything and the eu is a hellhole were you can never check out without permission (A bit like Scotland is in at the mom)
On a serious note no one is saying that. In matter most countries want reform. Its inevitable. Brexit actually helped that to happen. No enemy within and all that
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Interesting, has a brexit vote already triggered this?
It certainly helped rally the troops. In less then 2 years the uk will be gone. All those inside the eu might differ in opinion but at least they give a damn of europe and they wants the project to succeed. None of them see a unified europe as a threat and none of them see the US (ie an EU rival) as a bigger ally then europe itself
Theres a reason why obama wanted the uk to remain in the eu. You were their mouthpiece and their veto vote. Without the uk around, the eu can start its reforms without encountering unneccessary resistance
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.po...rade-germany-pushes-for-post-brexit-deal/amp/
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I'm not sure who thinks you can't check out of the EU without permission, what the UK is doing is pretty well known.
Maybe the Scottish referendum(s) should actually provide a role model for the rest of the world in what to do about separatist issues, no wars for decades, no military suppression, secret police, imprisonment and the rest, just genuine debate and democracy in action.
Unlike the uk, any country can leave the eu by simply trigger article 50. There is no need for permission from a central parliament (ie westminster) to allow that to happen
Are you suggesting the Scots could have voted for independence in their Westminster-sanctioned referendum and Westminster would have denied the result? Otherwise your post makes no sense.
Can Scotland leave the uk whenever they want?