Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
What did he get in return for his 174? feck all I expect.

All you seem to be outlining is there are more Have Nots then Have's and thats a pitiful society, its also a reflection of most European countries I'd imagine.

But surely the Have Nots cannot all be thick, yet they might feel aggrieved.

It also sounds from your argument that only the better off feel the benefit of the eu.

Not a great reason to stay in
I don't expect a direct personal return from my mighty £174, but my firm has offices in Europe and I worry about my colleagues. My father was an accountant with mainly farmers as clients. I worry about them too.
My job security is directly linked to the financial markets, so that also makes me nervous.
I'm still struggling to see any upside from Brexit, but we're on page 308 of this thread and well beyond the original battle lines.
 
Most people paid nowhere near £174 a year, it's nothing or next to nothing in most cases.

I'm not sacrificing anything, always stay a step ahead of the game.

As since the beginning of this whole story, I want the real reason behind all this to be pronounced, very few will say the real reason.
what are you prepared to sacrifice for your beliefs?
 
I don't expect a direct personal return from my mighty £174, but my firm has offices in Europe and I worry about my colleagues. My father was an accountant with mainly farmers as clients. I worry about them too.
My job security is directly linked to the financial markets, so that also makes me nervous.
I'm still struggling to see any upside from Brexit, but we're on page 308 of this thread and well beyond the original battle lines.

Well th eu wont guarantee my status in holland, am i worried, not at all.
 
It's not a be all and end all on it's own. There are bad democracies too where the corrupt few take advantage of the public. Kind of a common theme amongst most developing world democracies imo. I don't respect democracy just because it is so. It's the way it functions, people who govern etc that deserve it's respect.

Sell me a better system by all means.

I get democracy hasn't worked everywhere, and I reckon I was ahead of the curve in realising many peoples would rather back their religious or ethnic group over political principle, but this is a thread about the UK, where democracy used to a thing to be looked up to and fought for, and for me it still is.
 
1.4 billion euro a year in things ranging from infrastructure to business development grants, unemployment mitigation schemes like the 175 million quid one that helped MG Rover employees find work when they collapsed, multimillion pound redevelopment of Swansea waterfront museum and uni campus, Liverpool alone got 1.3 billion quid over 9 years with another half billion on its way and Manchester has benefited nearly as much with many schemes producing financial benefit to the area well after the initial funding stopped. The NE, Scotland and Cornwall have been huge net receivers.

The irony is the Jippy's of the world who are actually paying something for all this benefit are getting little or nothing directly in return but are more than willing to pay it because of the huge indirect financial and social benefits of membership mainly voted to stay.
 
All I said was that system doesn't matter standalone. It's how it's implemented that makes it deserving respect or not. For example, Pakistan is a constitutionally democratic country....but would you respect what's happening there?

You deleted the second sentence of my quote, maybe because it would have answered your question.
 
From another board, on a forthcoming by-election:
The UKIP guy is well known for being a liar and is an absolute arsehole, surely not even leave voters would be daft enough to vote for Eddie Hitler
:lol:
 
1.4 billion euro a year in things ranging from infrastructure to business development grants, unemployment mitigation schemes like the 175 million quid one that helped MG Rover employees find work when they collapsed, multimillion pound redevelopment of Swansea waterfront museum and uni campus, Liverpool alone got 1.3 billion quid over 9 years with another half billion on its way and Manchester has benefited nearly as much with many schemes producing financial benefit to the area well after the initial funding stopped. The NE, Scotland and Cornwall have been huge net receivers.

The irony is the Jippy's of the world who are actually paying something for all this benefit are getting little or nothing directly in return but are more than willing to pay it because of the huge indirect financial and social benefits of membership mainly voted to stay.
This is the ridiculous sutuation we find ourselves in. I've said before that I'd not moan at an extra penny on income tax for the NHS. Maybe that is easy for me to say as someone who is comfortable and has a wife earning a good chunk more. Stick it just on higher rate tax then.

But if those Sunderland voters who voted out in their droves lose their lifeblood Nissan plant, it's the likes of me and my wife who'll be footing the tab. Surefire way to build more mutual resentment and reinforce the north/south divide.
 
This is the ridiculous sutuation we find ourselves in. I've said before that I'd not moan at an extra penny on income tax for the NHS. Maybe that is easy for me to say as someone who is comfortable and has a wife earning a good chunk more. Stick it just on higher rate tax then.

But if those Sunderland voters who voted out in their droves lose their lifeblood Nissan plant, it's the likes of me and my wife who'll be footing the tab. Surefire way to build more mutual resentment and reinforce the north/south divide.

Out of interest, will you still be going Tory in 2020? Surely this shambles has been enough to tempt you off them?
 
Out of interest, will you still be going Tory in 2020? Surely this shambles has been enough to tempt you off them?

Well seeing as how everyone else keeps repeating themselves, let's be clear:

This entire Brexit shambles is the fault of everyone who voted Tory in the last election. The referendum was quite clearly in the manifesto, and if you voted Conservative, then you're to blame.

Stick your demographic categorising on that.
 
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One Belgian province recently almost scuppered an EU trade deal with Canada. Wallonia will have no say in any future British trade deal with the Canadians.

The argument that Britain has a bigger voice inside the EU is only true if the EU faithfully echoes Britain's opinions and interests. It doesn't. Britain's input is diluted by the input of 27 other countries who may have very different views.

But how can one such small province have a democratic say in something so large and important within the dictatorship that is the EU, when Britain of £65m people had to leave the EU to bring back this control to Westminster?
 
One Belgian province recently almost scuppered an EU trade deal with Canada. Wallonia will have no say in any future British trade deal with the Canadians.

The argument that Britain has a bigger voice inside the EU is only true if the EU faithfully echoes Britain's opinions and interests. It doesn't. Britain's input is diluted by the input of 27 other countries who may have very different views.

The only problem with your argument is that it is bollocks. Britain, German, France etc do have a bigger voice and greater influence that has always resulted in us having a large influence over future direction. How do you think we got such a favorable rebate deal (that we have now pissed away)? It certainly wasn't because we have the influence of Wallonia.

And mention of Wallonia is disingenuous. The issue that nearly scuppered the deal in question was that Belgium (not Wallonia) nearly didn't back it. Belgium might have a sub optimum system that allowed a state to nearly stop a National level decision but who are we to complain when we have fecked things right up by allowing a referendum due to political horsetrading which bit everyone in the arse, other member states included.
 
But how can one such small province have a democratic say in something so large and important within the dictatorship that is the EU, when Britain of £65m people had to leave the EU to bring back this control to Westminster?

That is one of the worst non sequiturs in this thread and it has some competition.
 
Out of interest, will you still be going Tory in 2020? Surely this shambles has been enough to tempt you off them?
It's a tough one. I wouldn't vote for either mainstream party right now and we have no credible opposition, in reality.
 
Can someone remind me what the advantages are again, because I can't seem to see any.

A good friend of mine was banging on about people coming from other European countries, former Eastern Block type countries, and using the NHS for free, which I am not actually sure they are allowed to do. Anyway, that is something that can be easily sorted without actually withdrawing from Europe.

I understood that the thing with the NHS was that British nationals can use health services in Europe for free and those countries reclaim the cost from the UK (E101) and by the same token, Europeans can use the NHS and the NHS can reclaim the costs from the country of the patient.

It's basically bollocks and a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.
 
It's a tough one. I wouldn't vote for either mainstream party right now and we have no credible opposition, in reality.

It's always a lesser of 2 evils in any election. They are both shite, and always have been, it's just a question of which one is least likely to feck things up completely. Since Labour always feck things up completely, it kind of narrows down the choices, unless you are a racist bigot, in which case you can now vote for UKIP.
 
It's always a lesser of 2 evils in any election. They are both shite, and always have been, it's just a question of which one is least likely to feck things up completely. Since Labour always feck things up completely, it kind of narrows down the choices, unless you are a racist bigot, in which case you can now vote for UKIP.
I'd normally agree, but the clusterfeck of a referendum was obviously on the Tories' watch.
 
The referendum was clearly in their manifesto, people got what they voted (badly) for.

I suppose you could say Cameron and Osborne have paid the political price though, maybe potential Tory voters should now be concentrating on how well or how badly the current lot are handling it. As a Labour geezer I'm in complete despair, I can't see any centre-left alternative at all.
 
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The traditional party politics in the UK now seems dead

Tories previously centre right are more like fascists
Labour previously centre left are more like the old tories but completely devoid of leadership
UKIP right wing but presumably defunct once the UK leaves the EU
No far left

What choice do people have to vote for?

Traditional older labour voters voted Tory in the last GE just so they'd get the referendum
 
1.4 billion euro a year in things ranging from infrastructure to business development grants, unemployment mitigation schemes like the 175 million quid one that helped MG Rover employees find work when they collapsed, multimillion pound redevelopment of Swansea waterfront museum and uni campus, Liverpool alone got 1.3 billion quid over 9 years with another half billion on its way and Manchester has benefited nearly as much with many schemes producing financial benefit to the area well after the initial funding stopped. The NE, Scotland and Cornwall have been huge net receivers.

The irony is the Jippy's of the world who are actually paying something for all this benefit are getting little or nothing directly in return but are more than willing to pay it because of the huge indirect financial and social benefits of membership mainly voted to stay.
I'm not sure any of those things got me excited
 
The traditional party politics in the UK now seems dead

Tories previously centre right are more like fascists
Labour previously centre left are more like the old tories but completely devoid of leadership
UKIP right wing but presumably defunct once the UK leaves the EU
No far left

What choice do people have to vote for?

Traditional older labour voters voted Tory in the last GE just so they'd get the referendum

I don't recognise any of those traits in the current political parties.
 
That is one of the worst non sequiturs in this thread and it has some competition.

That's kind of a double negative. The worst non logical argument is surely a winner winner chicken dinner as the most logical non sequiturs argument...

Regardless, if you weren't able to deduct it, my argument was not directed at the post I quoted specifically but at the Brexit argument of taking back control in general which Will has also advocated during the course of this thread.
 
An example about how the UK influenced EU policy:

The EU changed finance-market regulation quite a bit since the crisis and the UK had a very positive influence and stopped many bad ideas that came from the continent. One example is consumer protection, where the EU copied UK regulations that were far more sophisticated. But that is just one example of many. A lot has to do with different traditions of how to approach the problem. Overall the UK has much more expertise in this field and is able to influence the rule-making a lot. In the end everyone is better off.

If the UK leaves, future regulations will probably head in a different direction. Yet when the UK wants to access the market via “equivalence assessment”, they have to adopt most of the EU regulations without having a say in them.
 
This is the ridiculous sutuation we find ourselves in. I've said before that I'd not moan at an extra penny on income tax for the NHS. Maybe that is easy for me to say as someone who is comfortable and has a wife earning a good chunk more. Stick it just on higher rate tax then.

But if those Sunderland voters who voted out in their droves lose their lifeblood Nissan plant, it's the likes of me and my wife who'll be footing the tab. Surefire way to build more mutual resentment and reinforce the north/south divide.

1, If only those Southern voters who voted Conservative in their droves which lead to the Conservative victory in the general election a referendum and the voting pattern induced by decades of hopeless industrial decline in places like Sunderland it might all have been avoided.

2, It might close the divide a little if the financial service sector ends up buggered and we all know those jobs are really really important unlike all the other jobs because (insert reason but don't mention where they are mostly situated).

Milton Keynes voted to leave but meh, don't mind that so much.Teeside steel plant closed the year before and no one gave a toss but post-Brexit we can all pretend we would give a damn about the car plant if only they hadn't voted leave, so it will serve them right.

I'm sorry but I put this sudden interest in the well-being of northern manufacturing right alongside Osborne's Northern powerhouse and call bullshit.