Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Will Absolute]

Boast...? but what's the point of the comment - the Uk think the EU can't survive without the UK, what a joke

It would be, if the question was asked.

The EU will be weakened by the loss of Britain; its voice will carry less weight in world affairs. Britain's voice, on the other hand, will be heard more clearly; instead of having the same influence as Romania or Malta on many important issues, it will henceforth have the clout appropriate to the world's fifth biggest economy wielding significant military power. Unless a large nation has a leadership role, such as Germany, it's power will be reduced by membership of the EU, since the organization's democratic decision making means a large state's vote carries no more weight than one of the smaller EU members.

 

[Fener1907]

World's Fifth Biggest Economy™ crawled to Turkey's doorstep the other week. Talk about desperate.

 

[Will Absolute]

World's Fifth Biggest Economy™ crawled to Turkey's doorstep the other week. Talk about desperate.

But why does it have to be 'crawl'? Turkey is a participant in world trade as is Britain. Post Brexit Britain will be forging new trading relationships; no doubt it will establish such relationships with many unsavoury regimes, as does the EU, the US and other democratic countries around the world.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

You really believe that last line?

If France and /or Germany left as well as the Uk the whole structure would not survive as it is.
If there is a collapse of the EU then the shock will hit the UK just as hard whether they are in or out of the EU.

Yes the EU will survive without the UK who are virtually part-time participants

 

[JPRouve]

Boast...? but what's the point of the comment - the Uk think the EU can't survive without the UK, what a joke

I think that it was about the arrogance? Which would be strange because we are the most pessimistic people on earth.

 

[Fener1907]

But why does it have to be 'crawl'? Turkey is a participant in world trade as is Britain. Post Brexit Britain will be forging new trading relationships; no doubt it will establish such relationships with many unsavoury regimes, as does the EU, the US and other democratic countries around the world.

Because it looks pitiful. Crawling May. Holding hands with Ol' Orange and being Recep's footstool for a deal.

 

[Will Absolute]

Because it looks pitiful. Crawling May. Holding hands with Ol' Orange and being Recep's footstool for a deal.

It looks pitiful to you. It looks like business as usual to me.

Britain and Turkey will make a deal determined by their national interests. It won't stop Britain criticizing Turkey, anymore than her schmoozing with Donald Trump stopped May disagreeing with his emigration orders.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Bad phrasing on my part. Nonetheless, you are constantly repeating how terrible the UK is and how great France (and the EU) is. You seem to take it quite personal, that the UK decided to leave the EU.

The UK use the EU as a scapegoat for the underperformance of the government.
Why has it got a health service in decline why has it got an out of date infrastructure and so on, because there is not sufficient investment, but there is in France, Holland, Germany etc. The problem is the government will not increase taxes because they are scared of losing office.

Then we have the immigration, border controls, they're there , just that the UK have not enforced the laws that already exist.
Then we have sovereignty; strange how Brexiters suddenly didn't want the sovereign UK parliament to have the power.
Then we have the denial of racism and xenophobia - never a better opportunity for a large section of Brits to show their true colours.

It is all a sham.

Personally, I see people's lives affected by this and I am disgusted by it.

 

[Fener1907]

It looks pitiful to you. It looks like business as usual to me.

Britain and Turkey will make a deal determined by their national interests. It won't stop Britain criticizing Turkey, anymore than her schmoozing with Donald Trump stopped May disagreeing with his emigration orders.

Pretty sad that it's come to this. Not just desperate but seriously desperate. Poor UK.

 

[RedSky]

The UK use the EU as a scapegoat for the underperformance of the government

This is my opinion as well.

Pretty sad that it's come to this. Not just desperate but seriously desperate. Poor UK.

What else can we do though? We've alienated Europe when we need them the most and now we've been forced to dealing with Trump because of it. We've been banked into a corner due to Brexit. I don't agree with dealing with Trump either, but we have no alternative. Personally i'd love our Country to be in a position where we could finally have the balls to stand up to America. Our Government won't ever do this though, they're all too set in their ways.

 

[Fener1907]

What else can we do though? We've alienated Europe when we need them the most and now we've been forced to dealing with Trump because of it. We've been banked into a corner due to Brexit. I don't agree with dealing with Trump either, but we have no alternative. Personally i'd love our Country to be in a position where we could finally have the balls to stand up to America. Our Government won't ever do this though, they're all too set in their ways.

Yep, you don't need to tell me. Anybody who crawls to Recep isn't forging ahead, they're a beggar looking for a break.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

It would be, if the question was asked.

The EU will be weakened by the loss of Britain; its voice will carry less weight in world affairs. Britain's voice, on the other hand, will be heard more clearly; instead of having the same influence as Romania or Malta on many important issues, it will henceforth have the clout appropriate to the world's fifth biggest economy wielding significant military power. Unless a large nation has a leadership role, such as Germany, it's power will be reduced by membership of the EU, since the organization's democratic decision making means a large state's vote carries no more weight than one of the smaller EU members.

The question was does the EU need the UK more than the UK needs the EU.

The EU with the UK within is a powerful unit, why do you think Trump dislikes it so much, the EU is bigger than the USA (even without the UK)
Britains voice is not equal to the smaller countries, it's voting power is proportionate to its population giving the 4 most populous countries, Germany, France, the UK and Italy the most powerful.
The UK on its own will have much less voice.

 

[Fener1907]

The question was does the EU need the UK more than the UK needs the EU.

The EU with the UK within is a powerful unit, why do you think Trump dislikes it so much, the EU is bigger than the USA (even without the UK)
Britains voice is not equal to the smaller countries, it's voting power is proportionate to its population giving the 4 most populous countries, Germany, France, the UK and Italy the most powerful.
The UK on its own will have much less voice.

But World's Fifth Biggest Economy, right? Come on, get with the program.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

What is it the EU has to bargain with? Courgettes?

We have plenty

What seems to be forgotten , is that it is the UK that decided to leave, not the EU chucking the UK out.

They could have just announced their departure on the 24th June 2016 and left within two years, without any negotiations, just left and pass over to WTO rules.
The only reason they didn't is because they need concessions from the EU and the only thing they have is the rights of EU citizens to trade with.

In a way the EU will probably be glad to see the back of the UK, they get so many concessions to be part of the EU and on top of that a large number of their MEPs don't represent the country properly in the EU parliament, especially the UKIP members who turn up occasionally to get their salaries and throw in a few insults for good measure.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Of far greater importance for the EU, is if it will ever recognise that the Euro has become a harmful conceit. Even ardent Remainers, from Portugal to Greece, speak of it in the most hateful terms.

The Euro has been in place for over 15 years - I have no problem with it. Personally or rather in business it simplified my life considerably.
Maybe it doesn't suit all member countries of the EU but not every member of the EU has the Euro, eg the UK.
People moan still now saying that prices shot up when it was introduced. People also still moan now about decimalisation which was introduced in 1971.

 

[Will Absolute]

The question was does the EU need the UK more than the UK needs the EU.

The EU with the UK within is a powerful unit, why do you think Trump dislikes it so much, the EU is bigger than the USA (even without the UK)
Britains voice is not equal to the smaller countries, it's voting power is proportionate to its population giving the 4 most populous countries, Germany, France, the UK and Italy the most powerful.
The UK on its own will have much less voice.

One Belgian province recently almost scuppered an EU trade deal with Canada. Wallonia will have no say in any future British trade deal with the Canadians.

The argument that Britain has a bigger voice inside the EU is only true if the EU faithfully echoes Britain's opinions and interests. It doesn't. Britain's input is diluted by the input of 27 other countries who may have very different views.

 

[PedroMendez]

The UK use the EU as a scapegoat for the underperformance of the government.
Why has it got a health service in decline why has it got an out of date infrastructure and so on, because there is not sufficient investment, but there is in France, Holland, Germany etc. The problem is the government will not increase taxes because they are scared of losing office.

Then we have the immigration, border controls, they're there , just that the UK have not enforced the laws that already exist.
Then we have sovereignty; strange how Brexiters suddenly didn't want the sovereign UK parliament to have the power.
Then we have the denial of racism and xenophobia - never a better opportunity for a large section of Brits to show their true colours.

It is all a sham.

Personally, I see people's lives affected by this and I am disgusted by it.

You do realize that the FN is running with a fairly similar strategy? Even if they don’t win, they can clearly attract quite a few people. Neither France nor the UK are the only country, where anti-European sentiment is growing. Instead of constantly belittling and offending people, who disagree with your view, some modesty and introspective would be helpful. Telling people that they are idiots is not going to change their minds.

I agree that most justifications from brexit supporters are/were bogus, which doesn’t mean that the EU didn’t/doesn’t contribute to the current situation. EU leaders are ideological maniacs, who exhibit quasi-religious fervor when it comes to “their” project. They struggle to accept, that people can have different ideas about political organization. If they continue to push for an ever closer union, they’ll destroy the EU sooner or later. The majority of citizens in most member states is not supporting that at the moment and they’ll vote for die-hard right-wing nationalists, if that’s the only way to stop such a development. That is just something that they have to deal with. You mimic their attitude quite well I think it is part of the problem.

But why does it have to be 'crawl'? Turkey is a participant in world trade as is Britain. Post Brexit Britain will be forging new trading relationships; no doubt it will establish such relationships with many unsavoury regimes, as does the EU, the US and other democratic countries around the world.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/01/30/brexit-and-free-trade-fallacies-part-one/
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/02/01/brexit-and-free-trade-fallacies-part-two/

 

[Stanley Road]

Why has it got a health service in decline why has it got an out of date infrastructure and so on

That's all down to its citizens preferring low taxes over good services, plus fear of privatisation for some obscure reason.

I want free but don't want to pay

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I think that it was about the arrogance? Which would be strange because we are the most pessimistic people on earth.

Probably, never understood this and you're right about the pessimism too. At least when the French have a moan it is a moan about their own government, rather than always trying to blame the EU for everything.

 

[Dobba]

That's all down to its citizens preferring low taxes over good services, plus fear of privatisation for some obscure reason.

I want free but don't want to pay

How do they 'want free but don't want to pay' when they're already paying for it? Even for you this post is nonsensical.

'For some obscure reason' - Or they've been completely shafted by telecom, energy and transport companies over a number of decades and think it might be a good idea to keep these profit before service cnuts away from keeping people alive.

 

[Stanley Road]

The Euro has been in place for over 15 years - I have no problem with it

I've hated it since day one and hated the concept since forever, you weren't in France when francs were in right?

When we lost the guilder I had the feeling that this is how decimalisation felt.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Because it looks pitiful. Crawling May. Holding hands with Ol' Orange and being Recep's footstool for a deal.

How much is the EU paying Turkey to keep the Syrians refugee's in Turkey?

Is your opinion of the EU lessened to the same extent as your opinion about the UK by those dealings?

 

[Fener1907]

How much is the EU paying Turkey to keep the Syrians refugee's in Turkey?

Is your opinion of the EU lessened to the same extent as your opinion about the UK by those dealings?

Yep, that's a terrible deal. Definitely don't like the EU for that one.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

You do realize that the FN is running with a fairly similar strategy? Even if they don’t win, they can clearly attract quite a few people. Neither France nor the UK are the only country, where anti-European sentiment is growing. Instead of constantly belittling and offending people, who disagree with your view, some modesty and introspective would be helpful. Telling people that they are idiots is not going to change their minds.

I agree that most justifications from brexit supporters are/were bogus, which doesn’t mean that the EU didn’t/doesn’t contribute to the current situation. EU leaders are ideological maniacs, who exhibit quasi-religious fervor when it comes to “their” project. They struggle to accept, that people can have different ideas about political organization. If they continue to push for an ever closer union, they’ll destroy the EU sooner or later. The majority of citizens in most member states is not supporting that at the moment and they’ll vote for die-hard right-wing nationalists, if that’s the only way to stop such a development. That is just something that they have to deal with. You mimic their attitude quite well I think it is part of the problem.


/

Of course the FN is running with a similar strategy and there is a nationalistic sentiment that has been growing in various countries, obviously with the UK and the USA already.
Of course they will attract voters but not because of the EU, but because of fear of immigrants from outside the EU, not from within the EU.
The anti-European sentiment isn't the leading sentiment behind all this , it is a factor but I 'm sick to the back teeth of the hidden agenda which no-one dares mention, xenophobia and racism , this is the leading factor.

I don't see in my post where I belittled anyone or called people idiots, but I will no longer suffer all this other rubbish which is all a feeble excuse to hide the real agenda.

 

[JPRouve]

Yep, that's a terrible deal. Definitely don't like the EU for that one.

It's the member states not the EU. The member states are still refusing to have a common border administration and don't want to pay for it.

 

[Fener1907]

It's the member states not the EU. The member states are still refusing to have a common border administration and don't want to pay for it.

Call it whatever you want. Boils down to "have all this money, keep those dirty refugees from crossing to Greece." Dirty deal.

 

[Cassidy]

How do they 'want free but don't want to pay' when they're already paying for it? Even for you this post is nonsensical.

'For some obscure reason' - Or they've been completely shafted by telecom, energy and transport companies over a number of decades and think it might be a good idea to keep these profit before service cnuts away from keeping people alive.

Indeed

 

[Stanley Road]

How do they 'want free but don't want to pay' when they're already paying for it? Even for you this post is nonsensical.

'For some obscure reason' - Or they've been completely shafted by telecom, energy and transport companies over a number of decades and think it might be a good idea to keep these profit before service cnuts away from keeping people alive.

Look at hospitals and funding systems in western Europe. I could do the same job in the uk i do here for half the tax, thats where you dont want to pay.

 

[JPRouve]

Call it whatever you want. Boils down to "have all this money, keep those dirty refugees from crossing to Greece." Dirty deal.

I call it as it is because when you say the EU, you protect the actual culprit who conveniently will point to Brussels.

 

[Fener1907]

I call it as it is because when you say the EU, you protect the actual culprit who conveniently will point to Brussels.

You decide among yourselves. From where I'm standing, it's nothing but a dirty deal.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I've hated it since day one and hated the concept since forever, you weren't in France when francs were in right?

When we lost the guilder I had the feeling that this is how decimalisation felt.

No but I've spent a lot of time in France since the 70s, I was 14 when decimalisation was introduced - things change and we adapt.
As I was doing a lot of trading from Europe , when the Euro was introduced my life became considerably easier

 

[Cassidy]

This is my opinion as well.



What else can we do though? We've alienated Europe when we need them the most and now we've been forced to dealing with Trump because of it. We've been banked into a corner due to Brexit. I don't agree with dealing with Trump either, but we have no alternative. Personally i'd love our Country to be in a position where we could finally have the balls to stand up to America. Our Government won't ever do this though, they're all too set in their ways.

The EU won't be standing up to America either tbh, the US is a big player and likely always will be

 

[JPRouve]

You decide among yourselves. From where I'm standing, it's nothing but a dirty deal.

I agree with you on the dirty deal but let's blame the member states instead of hiding them behind the "EU".

 

[Stanley Road]

No but I've spent a lot of time in France since the 70s, I was 14 when decimalisation was introduced - things change and we adapt.
As I was doing a lot of trading from Europe , when the Euro was introduced my life became considerably easier

And i saw prices rise by 60% and while the big guns all denied such rises, the German govt eventually admitted it.

And now the weaker countries have nothing to de value but their internal costs. Austerity its called and its shit.

 

[Fener1907]

I agree with you on the dirty deal but let's blame the member states instead of hiding them behind the "EU".

Shame on you @Don't Kill Bill. Shame!

 

[Paul the Wolf]

How do they 'want free but don't want to pay' when they're already paying for it? Even for you this post is nonsensical.

They pay but they don't pay enough, we pay more in other countries in the EU and get better health care , infrastructure etc.
How much more would the British public be willing to pay and do they trust the UK government to utilise that money where they want them to use it.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Shame on you @Don't Kill Bill. Shame!

It is political symmetry, anti-EU it is all the EU's fault, pro-EU it is all the nation states fault. At least there might be an end to this in the UK post-Brexit.


That said it is clear that the EU is responsible for the Euro's problems and frankly I don't have much time for people who try to lay blame elsewhere they are in denial.

 

[Rightnr]

Labour or Tory?

Tory.

 

[Jippy]

I got that annual breakdown of where your tax went from HMRC last week. I'm not sure my £174 syphoned off by our EU overlords last year will save the NHS...

 

[Stanley Road]

174 quid wasted basically