You found Stan's twitter?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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You found Stan's twitter?
You could be rightA friend of mine just shared a photo of some prick wearing a "No to the EU!" baseball hat and an England football shirt. On a flight to Barcelona.
Only someone that is far from starvation and homelessness would write that. People sell their organs to avoid that.
To an extent, probably. We're always seeking more, and for all the advancement we've made as a society there's plenty still to fix and a lot that remains problematic. It's a weird one, because while I fundamentally agree with what you say...that life is better now on average than it's ever been, and that it's possible to do more and go more places...there's a question to be asked as to whether I'd necessarily be any less content or happy had I lived in, say, the 60s or 70s, or another era of relative peace where I'd have been comfortable enough to survive but (perhaps) not so well off and certainly not with the same technology and gadgets we have now.
Of course though, I'm from a background that would mean I'm fairly well off in most Western countries...had I come from a different background it's quite possible the advancements we've made would be significant enough to change my status as a citizen, whether it be to due to class, race, gender, sexuality etc.
The rhetoric largely does seem to be about going back to a time when everything was better, or more prosperous, with a worldview that suited them. But if you asked a Brexiter/Trump supporter who their political idol is/was, I suspect that Thatcher and Reagan would emerge as the two primary figures. And to varying degrees...both largely represent and even epitomise the movement towards globalisation and the acceleration of consumerism/capitalism etc. Not solely, of course, since all of this was around before them, but it's weird that people who want to go back to a better time, want to go back to one wherein the politicians were, to an extent, the antithesis of what they stand for now. As if they're being swayed by the rhetoric as opposed to any genuine belief.
The common market access is zero tariff, access to EU market will happen but at a price, not very difficult to understand, the UK did trade with European countries before the common market. UK basically has said we don't want freedom of movement, and are willing to accept that we will no longer be part of the EU free trade block. As the PM said UK is out and not half out, not sure what is difficult to understand about this.
Immigration is not 500%. If it was, I agree that would result in societal collapse.
A more accurate analogy would be:
You have 5 doctors for 200 people.
It goes up to 218 people and you deport one of the Doctors and let another retire without replacing her due an ideologically driven desire to shrink the state - there's an impact. The answer is more funding. But also people were able to blame immigration because it's easier to blame the people who speak funny.
Don't forget the classic "don't look like us"
The single market
The prime minister does not want Britain to stay in the single market. This is no surprise: May has been repeating since the Conservative party conference in October that her top two Brexit priorities are controlling EU immigration and withdrawing from the jurisdiction of the European court of justice.
Those two objectives are incompatible with membership of the single market and her comments on Tuesday merely confirm that she acknowledges that.
“We will take back control of our laws and put an end to the jurisdiction of the European court in Britain,” May said in her speech. “I want to be clear that what I am proposing cannot mean membership of the single market.”
Single market membership, she said, would mean accepting the EU’s four freedoms – free movement of goods, services, capital and people – and “complying with the EU’s rules and regulations that regulate those freedoms”.
To all intents and purposes, she said, it would mean “not leaving the EU at all”. Instead of membership of the single market, Britain will seek “the greatest possible access to it through a new, comprehensive, bold and ambitious free trade agreement”.
That new trade agreement could, May said, include “elements of current single market arrangements in certain areas”, such as the freedom for the City of London to provide financial services across national borders, since it “makes no sense to start again from scratch”.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/17/key-points-from-mays-what-have-we-learned
She knows your economy is pretty fecked if there no access to the single market for the City of London.
I did live in the 60s and 70s and had a comfortable life.
I have asked numerous times over the past 9 months what period do the Brexiters yearn to return to, never got an answer.
People on the whole are much better off than they were. It's false memories.
It makes no sense at all to me.
I've already agreed with all that.
And there we have the vital point
Funnily enough, the worst case scenario you envisioned in your analogy is better than the actual, real world numbers.
You could beef that analogy up with another 6 doctors pissing off to work in Australia because their job has become incompatible with raising a family, thanks to the wildly impractical Tory vote-winning scheme to make the hospitals run full weekday services every weekend without hiring extra staff.
But hey, let's do everything we can to stop overseas doctors propping up the creaking NHS in their absence because immigration is the real problem here.
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The People will cheer as tax rates for banks and bankers drop to single digits, as the UK heroically out-competes the EU.
I can't speak the entire country, but that has been true of Doctors and Academics here in Oxford since before the recession. The cost of living is so absurdly high that if you have a stay at home, or low paid spouse and children to raise you and your family are significantly better off moving to another county or country. And with Oxford University or the John Radcliffe Hospital on your CV another job won't be hard to come by.
What is going to happen with The City now? Because from what I have heard Paris and Frankfurt have waited for that occasion for a long time and will try their best to steal as many banks as they can.
UK will still trade with EU, lot's of alarmists read no access to the single market as no trade. Reality is the UK will trade with the EU both for physical goods, and financial products.
Lower taxes and looser trading practices to offset the loss of free access. It benefits no one, and will exacerbate the inherent problems with financial gambling.
Imo May has virtually offered them on a plate.
Yep, now we're away from the EU (or will be) Germany and France become competitors in a bigger sense than they were before. They may not want to crush us in actual negotiations, as that may make them look bad, but if they could do so externally in trade, thus making Brexit a disaster for us then it'd be a big statement and a big blow for anti-EU movements.
There's always been a trickle of Uk medics to overseas jobs. Usually with a view to padding out their cv and coming back. The trickle has turned into a flood over the last few years, since Jeremy Hunt took charge, with fewer and fewer returning. Ironically, reliance on EU medical school graduates to fill holes in the service is at an all-time high.
Let's see what happens, but i think she is a bit in a "lose-lose situation". A true Hard Brexit would probably a disaster for the City of London, while a soft one wouldn't be good for the right-wing Tories.
I'm italian who lived and worked in London for 10 months from 2013 to 2014. I am really interested in what could happen to a country i have always liked.
Yeah you're right, London City will close, and the UK will cease to exist as a financial services provider. I am just waiting for my
Out of interest how would you have positioned it in the unlikely event you acknowledged what the UK people wanted, and had to go to the negotiating table?
We will still trade, and still work in each other's countries, just under some different terms.
Stop acting like a moron, I simply asked a question about the implications for London. I didn't told you that London would lose anything.
You are being the moron, you expect all the answers on day 1, be realistic all this will get worked through negotiations to get to a workable solution for both parties.
Let's see what deal is gonna come out.
It's not really France and Germany per se, I don't really know about Germany but in the case of Paris it's more the region who tends to be fairly aggressive.
Indeed, Germany has the EU riding on making this work.
Are you for real? I asked one question.
Indeed
And? What people are asking for is a full, detailed plan as to how the UK is going to deal with the impact of Brexit; on how it will ensure London's financial power is not damaged causing to a loss of jobs, on whether subsidies on certain initiatives/industries from the EU will be continued, and if so whether this will have an impact upon public spending in health and other important areas, and a clear, detailed plan in regards to which specific level the UK government seeks to reduce immigration to, considering this is the primary reason we're doing the whole thing in the first place!
That's...not absurd to ask. It's basic. Very, very basic. I don't need to necessarily agree with the plan outlined by the government in regards to the above, and could potentially pick holes in such a plan, but at least it would outline the intentions of the government, and the manner in which they will reach their intentions.
Saying you want to reduce immigration isn't a plan. Detailing the levels you want to reduce immigration to, while detailing the specific countries/regions that will result in having less immigration, as well as any plans to mitigate the impact, is a plan. Saying you're going to make a success of Brexit isn't a plan. Detailing how you're going to make a success of Brexit is a plan.
May wants the end of FoM, membership of EU, Membership of the single market, end of ECJ - that means end of access for the services of the City, so she says hopefully we can obtain a FTA in a bold ambitious new form, which clearly means she is talking about this very point and if the EU don't agree we'll basically become a tax haven - is this what the people want?
Trading of course will continue but under different rules and different costs.
Some might have more than ever, i holiday less than ever and frequent visits back to visit my dying parents cost me a lot due to the overpriced pound.
I want to hear politicians in Holland talking about Holland and not Europe, i feel so nothing for the rest of europe you would not believe it. Look at it as a whole entity, north to south, its so feckin divided and rotten its untrue.
Bring back tariffs and bring back fishing waters, gimme back my blue passport and the guilder. Moan about impending tax haven and look at Claud Junk while you do so.
So you are getting a very Hard Brexit, imo
. Germany can't afford a soft deal, as they have a very important election in september.But part of the problem is that in a continent where there are a number of small, close countries with links throughout centuries, having exchanged territory and being a part of each other, there are bound to be clashes and disagreements, where discussion with said foreign country is necessary.
In a non-EU Europe, imagine if, say, Holland were being negatively impacted by illegal immigrants in a lax Belgium system? What if a bigger country, say France or Germany, was intruding upon Dutch territory to further their own interests? What if European trade policies were going against Dutch ones, and having a negative impact upon your country?
Politics doesn't exist in a vacuum. I'm all for localisation and don't particularly think further political integration within the EU (which they probably want to an extent) is necessarily a wise idea, but when you're a relatively small European country it's pretty impossible to ignore what your European neighbours are doing when it's very likely have a direct effect upon you.