Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[DomesticTadpole]

And which country pushed hardest for EU enlargement? Oh yes it was the UK!

Yep. How will human rights be affected by leaving? Sorry if you are copping for all the questions?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Not sure how you work that one out.

That you let a lot of countries join with desperate people who want a better life and will work for a pittance and can be exploited in the process.

Although the ones who moan about immigration seem to hitting out at anyone and everyone. The fact that a lot of immigration is from the Commonwealth. Is it the Syrian refugees they don't like. Likely they don't like anyone who isn't English and likely don't like some of them either.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

That you let a lot of countries join with desperate people who want a better life and will work for a pittance and can be exploited in the process.

Basic minimum wage is supposed to prevent that.

The EU have been pushing towards a EU-Wide minimum wage for a while so that debunks the idea that it's all about exploitation.

 

[Stanley Road]

Of course, but we all know beforehand that the EU cannot possibly give in to her and won't

Still have to ask for it. Or should ask for nothing cos nothing is on the table?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Basic minimum wage is supposed to prevent that.

Supposed to, if employed legally.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Supposed to, if employed legally.

Can't blame the EU there though, more chance of being legally employed if you're an EU citizen in an EU member state.

 

[Adebesi]

Yep. How will human rights be affected by leaving? Sorry if you are copping for all the questions?

That's my biggest concern and its too early to say I think. I was all for remaining anyway, but if we had to leave I would not want to be taken out under a Tory government, especially not one desperate to do anything to mitigate the economic impact of doing so. So as I said earlier, when it comes to a trade deal with the US, it will be either it doesnt happen, or it happens on US terms, which means social protections are out and corporate interests come first. Anything that gets in the way of growth - regulations around worker conditions, the environment, planning permission, whatever - will all be subordinated.

So yeah, I see it as a complete disaster.

 

[Sly]

Hard brexit it is. At least there's some clarification, although UK so called plan looks a bit vague. Really doesn't concern me (worked in UK for a while but rejected to live there permanently because i missed Southern Europeu quality of life) but it brings uncertainty to the lives of plenty of people who i met there (including brits who work for foreign companies). I hope that in the end everything goes as smoothly as possible for both sides (although i'm a bit skeptical).

 

[Jippy]

Evil EU undermining backing our law again.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Yep. How will human rights be affected by leaving? Sorry if you are copping for all the questions?

Very short and simplistic:

You're still in the Council of Europe (not to be confused with the European Council or Council of European Union), which is a completely different institution than the European Union.

European Convention on Human Rights is not really 'related' to the European Union, though shiteloads of people (understandably) mix it all up.

edit: ffs I can;t explain this properly in English, my bad.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Just seen a statement from IBEC. They are not happy with the speech. Not happy at all. I expect similarly pissed off responses from business leaders throughout the EU. Silly cow will be sending her negotiators into a hornets nest.

 

[sammsky1]

Its been fun taking the piss out of the USA and Trump these past weeks.

And then all of a sudden, I watched Theresa May's BrExit speech today and remembered that we in the UK are in even more trouble than the yanks; our politicians are pandering to right wing racists who don't understand that the immigration door bolted along time ago.

I don't think I've had such a load of hypocritical nonsense for a long time: on the one hand proclaiming UK is going to be a global nation and a magnet for international talent but who won't allow immigrants in. Apparently we are going to become a tax haven for the international elite: even though we don't like foreigners anymore.

May and her tory cabinet have had months to work out what they should do and yet they still don't have a clue.

And then our erstwhile British PM even had the temerity to advise the EU how to function when UK left and threaten them for good measure.

Utterly screwed because a load of people did not take the BrExit vote seriously enough.

 

[sammsky1]

Yeah, agreed. The whole world has been plunged into uncertainty and the goal posts seem to be moving all the time. Brexit and Trump are both a huge part of this and, as people keep saying, there are similar motivations behind a big chunk of both electorates. Desperate people who would take literally anything over a continuation of the status quo. I have a lot of sympathy with that but I think history will look upon this chain of events as a tragedy. Wealthy countries with excellent standards of living accelerating their demise because hucksters took advantage of people who thought they had nothing to lose. I suspect they'll find out they had a lot more to lose than they thought...

the most severe example of Self sabotage I've seen in my life so far

 

[Henrik Larsson]

the most severe example of Self sabotage I've seen in my life so far

Over here in the Netherlands the sentiments are roughly the same. I've discussed it with various people, but honestly, nobody seems to have a clue where all the anger comes from, taking into account we're one of those wealthy countries with excellent standards of living.

Frustration I could understand, and as a matter of fact many valid points of criticism towards the institute 'European Union' can and definitely should be made.

But it doesn't really seem to be about valid and constructive criticism, all I hear is incredible anger and despair. And trying to think about it rationally, I have no idea where these extreme emotions come from, with so many people completely refusing to take terrible situations in plenty of countries all over the world into context, refusing to let in any realisation of how far we have come get in the way.

In general I've literally never seen such big groups of people with such incredible feelings of anger in my life, and this obviously translates to the EU discussions.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Still have to ask for it. Or should ask for nothing cos nothing is on the table?

What she said today was for the benefit of the Brexiters, she knows full well that the EU cannot accept this, and when they don't it will be the nasty people from the EU that prevented it, absolving her from blame if and when it all goes wrong. She may as well have asked for the currency reserves of France and Germany, she won't get those either.

There was only two choices really, a full hard brexit or carry on under a similar guise but basically still a member of the EU, she chose the former which really means that she has nothing to bargain with other than EU and UK citizens lives

 

[FC Ronaldo]

 

[Stanley Road]

What she said today was for the benefit of the Brexiters, she knows full well that the EU cannot accept this, and when they don't it will be the nasty people from the EU that prevented it, absolving her from blame if and when it all goes wrong. She may as well have asked for the currency reserves of France and Germany, she won't get those either.

There was only two choices really, a full hard brexit or carry on under a similar guise but basically still a member of the EU, she chose the former which really means that she has nothing to bargain with other than EU and UK citizens lives

Its like you see the eu as some nirvana it isnt, christ on a bike, the world will carry on and so will the uk.

 

[711]

What she said today was for the benefit of the Brexiters, she knows full well that the EU cannot accept this, and when they don't it will be the nasty people from the EU that prevented it, absolving her from blame if and when it all goes wrong. She may as well have asked for the currency reserves of France and Germany, she won't get those either.

There was only two choices really, a full hard brexit or carry on under a similar guise but basically still a member of the EU, she chose the former which really means that she has nothing to bargain with other than EU and UK citizens lives

That's how I've been reading it for a long time now I'm afraid, with a predictable result.

 

[Silva]

Yeah, agreed. The whole world has been plunged into uncertainty and the goal posts seem to be moving all the time. Brexit and Trump are both a huge part of this and, as people keep saying, there are similar motivations behind a big chunk of both electorates. Desperate people who would take literally anything over a continuation of the status quo. I have a lot of sympathy with that but I think history will look upon this chain of events as a tragedy. Wealthy countries with excellent standards of living accelerating their demise because hucksters took advantage of people who thought they had nothing to lose. I suspect they'll find out they had a lot more to lose than they thought...

Ironically, those with the least to lose, young people who would massively benefit from the destruction of the worlds economy and health services and untimely deaths for the old are the ones voting for stability.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ironically, those with the least to lose, young people who would massively benefit from the destruction of the worlds economy and health services and untimely deaths for the old are the ones voting for stability.

Fairly sure a massive economic melt-down isn't the same thing as an orderly cull of the old and the frail.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Its like you see the eu as some nirvana it isnt, christ on a bike, the world will carry on and so will the uk.

I've said before the EU is not perfect and needs reforms, the UK could have helped with the reforms but all Farage and his mates seemed interested in was to have cheap snipes at the EU on the rare occasions he decided to turn up and the UK has been poorly represented in the EU over the past few years.

The world will carry on, the EU will continue maybe even stronger without the UK, especially if it gets the UK services sector. The UK will carry on as well, but what it will be like is difficult to imagine at this moment

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Over here in the Netherlands the sentiments are roughly the same. I've discussed it with various people, but honestly, nobody seems to have a clue where all the anger comes from, taking into account we're one of those wealthy countries with excellent standards of living.

Frustration I could understand, and as a matter of fact many valid points of criticism towards the institute 'European Union' can and definitely should be made.

But it doesn't really seem to be about valid and constructive criticism, all I hear is incredible anger and despair. And trying to think about it rationally, I have no idea where these extreme emotions come from, with so many people completely refusing to take terrible situations in plenty of countries all over the world into context, refusing to let in any realisation of how far we have come get in the way.

In general I've literally never seen such big groups of people with such incredible feelings of anger in my life, and this obviously translates to the EU discussions.

The anguish does seem massively disproportionate to the reality, I agree. I blame unrealistic aspirations because of lives immersed in social media, ogling the 1%. Not that the disparity of wealth isn't wrong so much as people are forgetting how far things have come from the past and in comparison to living in less wealthy/enlightened countries.

 

[Silva]

Fairly sure a massive economic melt-down isn't the same thing as an orderly cull of the old and the frail.

It would be an inevitable side effect. Suicide rates go up, health funding goes down.

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

I don't get it: May wants the UK to leave the UE single market, but she still wants Great Britain to have some sort of access to European markets, without freedom of movement though. It doesn't work like that. If you are out you are out, not half and half.

 

[Mozza]

That you let a lot of countries join with desperate people who want a better life and will work for a pittance and can be exploited in the process.

Although the ones who moan about immigration seem to hitting out at anyone and everyone. The fact that a lot of immigration is from the Commonwealth. Is it the Syrian refugees they don't like. Likely they don't like anyone who isn't English and likely don't like some of them either.

Freedom of movement has existed from the start, no one could for see Eastern Europe joining after the collapse of the Soviet Union

They don't like Migrants. This country has lost all sense on the topic. When asked whats to blame for the NHS crisis, migration came top

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Freedom of movement has existed from the start, no one could for see Eastern Europe joining after the collapse of the Soviet Union

They don't like Migrants. This country has lost all sense on the topic. When asked whats to blame for the NHS crisis, migration came top

Migrants will always get the blame, when in reality most of the citizens of this country will be descended from migrants/settlers of some sort, Angles, Saxons, Vikings, Romans, Normans the list goes on and on, same with the US.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It would be an inevitable side effect. Suicide rates go up, health funding goes down.

Still not seeing the "massive benefits" of growing up in a society where people are so desperate they're killing themselves, left right and centre.

 

[Red Defence]

I don't get it: May wants the UK to leave the UE single market, but she still wants Great Britain to have some sort of access to European markets, without freedom of movement though. It doesn't work like that. If you are out you are out, not half and half.

You saying that all other countries outside the EU that have access to European markets have freedom of movement as a condition of access?

 

[Silva]

Still not seeing the "massive benefits" of growing up in a society where people are so desperate they're killing themselves, left right and centre.

House prices go down, the job market is less saturated and there's fewer people in the pension pot. Like I said, the people who lose the most in this scenario are the ones who voted for it.

 

[Will Absolute]

I've said before the EU is not perfect and needs reforms, the UK could have helped with the reforms but all Farage and his mates seemed interested in was to have cheap snipes at the EU on the rare occasions he decided to turn up and the UK has been poorly represented in the EU over the past few years.

The world will carry on, the EU will continue maybe even stronger without the UK, especially if it gets the UK services sector. The UK will carry on as well, but what it will be like is difficult to imagine at this moment

Not difficult to imagine at all. The sky won't fall, the air become toxic or the earth barren. Things will be much the same as they were before.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Guy Verhofstadt

Britain has chosen a hard Brexit. May's clarity is welcome—but the days of UK cherry-picking and Europe a la cart are over.
Threatening to turn the UK into a deregulated tax heaven will not only hurt British people—it is a counterproductive negotiating tactic

 

[Massive Spanner]

Not difficult to imagine at all. The sky won't fall, the air become toxic or the earth barren. Things will be much the same as they were before.

Ah yes, a bit like any non-apocalyptic event, then. Great.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Not difficult to imagine at all. The sky won't fall, the air become toxic or the earth barren. Things will be much the same as they were before.

I didn't say they would, but I sincerely doubt it will be the same as it has been, but Leavers don't want things to be the same as they were before, otherwise what's the point . I think a rude awakening, however, may be on the cards

 

[Stanley Road]

I've said before the EU is not perfect and needs reforms, the UK could have helped with the reforms but all Farage and his mates seemed interested in was to have cheap snipes at the EU on the rare occasions he decided to turn up and the UK has been poorly represented in the EU over the past few years.

The world will carry on, the EU will continue maybe even stronger without the UK, especially if it gets the UK services sector. The UK will carry on as well, but what it will be like is difficult to imagine at this moment

The UK needs reforms too, in fact the whole western world bar a few countries need reform so lets start with this. We know the 'same old' and it is shit. Lets go back to trading livestock and clay items, start again. Let banks disappear and take bankers with it. Power to the people!

 

[Paul the Wolf]

The UK needs reforms too, in fact the whole western world bar a few countries need reform so lets start with this. We know the 'same old' and it is shit. Lets go back to trading livestock and clay items, start again. Let banks disappear and take bankers with it. Power to the people!

The "same old" might seem like paradise in a few years time. There's not one single thing that suggests the change will be a change for the better.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

House prices go down, the job market is less saturated and there's fewer people in the pension pot. Like I said, the people who lose the most in this scenario are the ones who voted for it.

Mass unemployment, civil unrest, poverty and hardship. Delightful. Basically the only people who might benefit in the very long term from the apocalypse you're portraying were too young to vote or not even born yet.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Be ironic if we go down this route and end up dumping the NHS on the way to becoming a tax haven after all the false promises made in the build up to the vote.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We know the 'same old' and it is shit.

Is it really? Don't people have more than ever now? Don't people holiday more than ever? I know oldies who have never left the UK and now it seems Ibiza isn't a good enough getaway any longer for the early 20's, instead it's 6 weeks in Thailand.

As highlighted in the winter jacket thread, every fecker seems to own a Canada Goose jacket at 800 quid a pop, we have more gadgets than ever.

So what the hell are people sooo unhappy about? is it just simply the human condition? The more we move away from nature the more depressed and angry we become?

 

[Silva]

Mass unemployment, civil unrest, poverty and hardship. Delightful. Basically the only people who might benefit in the very long term from the apocalypse you're portraying were too young to vote or not even born yet.

That assumes no political pushback in the coming decades. Eventually people will either wise up and change course, or go to war and we get to have a period of intensive rebuilding afterwards.

Is it really? Don't people have more than ever now? Don't people holiday more than ever? I know oldies who have never left the UK and now it seems Ibiza isn't a good enough getaway any longer for the early 20's, instead it's 6 weeks in Thailand.

As highlighted in the winter jacket thread, every fecker seems to own a Canada Goose jacket at 800 quid a pop, we have more gadgets than ever.

So what the hell are people sooo unhappy about? is it just simply the human condition? The more we move away from nature the more depressed and angry we become?

Repetition. Say immigrants and/or your political opponents (ideally, both for added affect) are ruining the country over, and over, and over and people will eventually believe you.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Saw this tweet from a brexiter on Verhofstadt's twitter :I'd rather be homeless and starve to death rather than have anything to do with the f***ing EU.