Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Stanley Road said:
You make it sound so simple, don't forget its the eu they would be dealing with which we all know take an age to do anything.
Click to expand...
But 2 years negotiations should be fine to secure the future of the UK which is why you favoured Brexit in the first place?

A currency switch shouldn't be a major issue especially as all the banks and most of the businesses have to be capable of dealing in Euros already. I don't see it happening, but the suggestion in the Guardian is fairly straightforward with the UK remaining in the EU (and in my suggestion accepting the Euro as sole currency) whilst England and Wales leave the United Kingdom and therefore the EU without the need to activate Article 50 but remain a part of Great Britain and have an open agenda for negotiating new trade deals straight away.
 
Bury Red said:
But 2 years negotiations should be fine to secure the future of the UK which is why you favoured Brexit in the first place?

A currency switch shouldn't be a major issue especially as all the banks and most of the businesses have to be capable of dealing in Euros already. I don't see it happening, but the suggestion in the Guardian is fairly straightforward with the UK remaining in the EU (and in my suggestion accepting the Euro as sole currency) whilst England and Wales leave the United Kingdom and therefore the EU without the need to activate Article 50 but remain a part of Great Britain and have an open agenda for negotiating new trade deals straight away.
Click to expand...

Will the EU accept with having the English and the Welsh being treated as citizens of the EU without them offering the same to all 28 members of the EU?
 
devilish said:
Will the EU accept with having the English and the Welsh being treated as citizens of the EU without them offering the same to all 28 members of the EU?
Click to expand...
This isn't the Associate citizenship option floated by EU moderates last week, it's the Guardian's suggestion that the UK stays in the EU but that England and Wales leave the UK and EU and erect a border with Scotland. That way there would be no need to activate Article 50 as the UK (Scotland and NI) would continue uninterrupted and to ease the issue of currency within GB would probably opt to switch to the Euro.

It's theoretical as no EU country has split in such a way but should not legally require the triggering of Article 50.
 
Bury Red said:
This isn't the Associate citizenship option floated by EU moderates last week, it's the Guardian's suggestion that the UK stays in the EU but that England and Wales leave the UK and EU and erect a border with Scotland. That way there would be no need to activate Article 50 as the UK (Scotland and NI) would continue uninterrupted and to ease the issue of currency within GB would probably opt to switch to the Euro.

It's theoretical as no EU country has split in such a way but should not legally require the triggering of Article 50.
Click to expand...

However the EU will suggest that the UK that was an EU member before Brexit is not the same UK that would be after that change, therefore they need to leave the EU and reapply. Spain will be quite fussy on that considering its issue with Catalonia.
 
devilish said:
However the EU will suggest that the UK that was an EU member before Brexit is not the same UK that would be after that change, therefore they need to leave the EU and reapply. Spain will be quite fussy on that considering its issue with Catalonia.
Click to expand...
How does that affect anything? Devolving the UK has nothing to do with the Catalan situation, Scotland and NI already have their own devolved parliaments and rule of law and technically even their own currencies although they are pegged to sterling and interchangeable.

This is not like Scotland or NI forming a break away from an unwilling UK but a continuation of the devolution that is already well underway and a means of avoiding Scotland and NI leaving the EU then needing to reapply. Their payment terms and number of parliamentary seats would need to be adjusted but other than that there should not be any realistic objection from any European country.
 
Bury Red said:
How does that affect anything? Devolving the UK has nothing to do with the Catalan situation, Scotland and NI already have their own devolved parliaments and rule of law and technically even their own currencies although they are pegged to sterling and interchangeable.

This is not like Scotland or NI forming a break away from an unwilling UK but a continuation of the devolution that is already well underway and a means of avoiding Scotland and NI leaving the EU then needing to reapply. Their payment terms and number of parliamentary seats would need to be adjusted but other than that there should not be any realistic objection from any European country.
Click to expand...

It does.

The UK have gained alot of opt outs in the past years and will the new UK will be far weaker then the old UK. Also through dual citizenship + mutual trade deal Wales/England will enjoy most of the benefits of being part of the EU without actually being part of the EU. That's the sort of cherry picking most EU countries doesn't want.
 
EU is a failure and would be a disaster when crashes at least UK would be already out. The idea was good the intentions not so good, I believe in an economic bloc but not political, were aren't like US and will not work, too many languages and cultures and too many interests, the bigger countries always getting the front seat. The reason we have the electoral system in US is to protect the smaller states and we can see in EU would be no protection at all, if France and Germany decide to elect someone then they would win all the time. When the economy is bad the US federal government injects money in those states from money coming from richer states and what the EU did with Greece and Portugal showed to the Europeans the EU was made for the smaller states to buy goods from the bigger/richer states with loans from the same bigger/richer states to the point they are completely broken.
 
devilish said:
It does.

The UK have gained alot of opt outs in the past years and will the new UK will be far weaker then the old UK. Also through dual citizenship + mutual trade deal Wales/England will enjoy most of the benefits of being part of the EU without actually being part of the EU. That's the sort of cherry picking most EU countries doesn't want.
Click to expand...
None of which has anything to do with the Catalan situation.

Borders with Scotland would have to go up and only Scottish and Northern Irish Citizens would remain within the EU. I'm sure you'll have some in the UK and Wales applying for dual nationality on the basis that their great aunt's budgies third cousin was Scottish or even more ludicrous qualifications like being eligible to play for the Northern Irish football team but how will that be any different to the likes of @Paul the Wolf finalizing his French citizenship application ahead of Brexit or slimy Farage slithering into a German embassy.

Scotland and NI (and most likely Gibraltar and the Channel Islands) will need to renegotiate their terms with the EU based on smaller populations, GDP etc and won't get all the deals the UK had previously negotiated but this isn't cherry picking by England (we're out) nor by Scotland, they're simply saving themselves the grief of leaving along with England and then splitting and having to go to the back of the queue for readmittance and all the financial implications that would have.
 
barros said:
EU is a failure and would be a disaster when crashes at least UK would be already out. The idea was good the intentions not so good, I believe in an economic bloc but not political, were aren't like US and will not work, too many languages and cultures and too many interests, the bigger countries always getting the front seat. The reason we have the electoral system in US is to protect the smaller states and we can see in EU would be no protection at all, if France and Germany decide to elect someone then they would win all the time. When the economy is bad the US federal government injects money in those states from money coming from richer states and what the EU did with Greece and Portugal showed to the Europeans the EU was made for the smaller states to buy goods from the bigger/richer states with loans from the same bigger/richer states to the point they are completely broken.
Click to expand...
That is just not true in a EU with 28 (27) countries. If it were true Draghi wouldn't be ECB president.
Having been to Michigan (my moms from Detroit), Ohio, Pennsylvania etc. the second point is a joke. Athens and Thessaloniki are in a lot better state than Detroit, Flint or Cleveland (From pretty much every perspective). I don't see any Alaskan oil money rescuing Detroit workers. When the City of Detroit had to file for bankruptcy a lot of it's pensioners had to take huge cuts or were duped out of the money they were due entirely. Greek pensioners are having to deal with a lot, but they're not left with nothing.
 
Stanley Road said:
I think he may be implying that spain will veto everything they can with regard to the uk as they don't want Catalonians to see a better world out there, Gibraltar being another target for spain.
Click to expand...
I still don't see the relevance, Catalonia want independence from Spain and would be out of the EU automatically if they won it which I doubt Spain will ever allow them to. In no way comparable to an amicable dissolution of the UK to allow those who want to leave the EU out without adversely affecting the parts that wish to remain. A weaker Gibraltar backed by Holyrood instead of Westminster would be a far less contentious neighbour for Spain.
 
barros said:
EU is a failure and would be a disaster when crashes at least UK would be already out. The idea was good the intentions not so good, I believe in an economic bloc but not political, were aren't like US and will not work, too many languages and cultures and too many interests, the bigger countries always getting the front seat. The reason we have the electoral system in US is to protect the smaller states and we can see in EU would be no protection at all, if France and Germany decide to elect someone then they would win all the time. When the economy is bad the US federal government injects money in those states from money coming from richer states and what the EU did with Greece and Portugal showed to the Europeans the EU was made for the smaller states to buy goods from the bigger/richer states with loans from the same bigger/richer states to the point they are completely broken.
Click to expand...

Doesn't the number of votes, seats in the US depend on the population of the said states - ie the same as the EU?
 
barros said:
EU is a failure and would be a disaster when crashes at least UK would be already out. The idea was good the intentions not so good, I believe in an economic bloc but not political, were aren't like US and will not work, too many languages and cultures and too many interests, the bigger countries always getting the front seat. The reason we have the electoral system in US is to protect the smaller states and we can see in EU would be no protection at all, if France and Germany decide to elect someone then they would win all the time. When the economy is bad the US federal government injects money in those states from money coming from richer states and what the EU did with Greece and Portugal showed to the Europeans the EU was made for the smaller states to buy goods from the bigger/richer states with loans from the same bigger/richer states to the point they are completely broken.
Click to expand...

This is where Brexiters get it wrong. It's why the theory that 'the EU will give us what we want because Germany wants to sell cars' is also wrong, as East and South Europe would veto such a thing.
 
Bury Red said:
None of which has anything to do with the Catalan situation.

Borders with Scotland would have to go up and only Scottish and Northern Irish Citizens would remain within the EU. I'm sure you'll have some in the UK and Wales applying for dual nationality on the basis that their great aunt's budgies third cousin was Scottish or even more ludicrous qualifications like being eligible to play for the Northern Irish football team but how will that be any different to the likes of @Paul the Wolf finalizing his French citizenship application ahead of Brexit or slimy Farage slithering into a German embassy.

Scotland and NI (and most likely Gibraltar and the Channel Islands) will need to renegotiate their terms with the EU based on smaller populations, GDP etc and won't get all the deals the UK had previously negotiated but this isn't cherry picking by England (we're out) nor by Scotland, they're simply saving themselves the grief of leaving along with England and then splitting and having to go to the back of the queue for readmittance and all the financial implications that would have.
Click to expand...

Even if the UK were remaining in the EU I was seriously thinking of becoming a French national because I never intended to go back to live in the UK - now not only because of the vote but the way the country is becoming even more insular and xenophobic I have no pride in saying I'm British, bloody embarrassed actually.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Even if the UK were remaining in the EU I was seriously thinking of becoming a French national because I never intended to go back to live in the UK - now not only because of the vote but the way the country is becoming even more insular and xenophobic I have no pride in saying I'm British, bloody embarrassed actually.
Click to expand...
I used to pretend to be French when we went skiing on my year out in Grenoble as it was too bloody embarrassing admitting to being English due to the behaviour of the pissed up hooray Henrys and Henriettas who thought that lift queues were something that only those foreign types did. It is sad to realise that we're now looking at such a large portion of our fellow countrymen who are so thoroughly repugnant.
 
Bury Red said:
I used to pretend to be French when we went skiing on my year out in Grenoble as it was too bloody embarrassing admitting to being English due to the behaviour of the pissed up hooray Henrys and Henriettas who thought that lift queues were something that only those foreign types did. It is sad to realise that we're now looking at such a large portion of our fellow countrymen who are so thoroughly repugnant.
Click to expand...

I bet they weren't talking to each other in French as they patiently waited in the queue, as now anyone who happens to find themselves in the UK must only speak English.
 
Ramshock said:
I know a lot will hate to hear this but Brexit could be the beginning of the end of the border between NI and ROI
Click to expand...

It could, but it's an absolute nightmare, and the politicians are just saying don't worry whilst hoping the problem will go away.

No border at all means no control over immigration to England, contrary to what England voted for.
Border controls with Eire will infuriate the nationalists.
Border controls at the mainland ports and airports will infuriate the Unionists.
 
712 said:
It could, but it's an absolute nightmare, and the politicians are just saying don't worry whilst hoping the problem will go away.

No border at all means no control over immigration to England, contrary to what England voted for.
Border controls with Eire will infuriate the nationalists.
Border controls at the mainland ports and airports will infuriate the Unionists.
Click to expand...

While also enriching paramilitary smugglers. An unhappy combination.
 
712 said:
It could, but it's an absolute nightmare, and the politicians are just saying don't worry whilst hoping the problem will go away.

No border at all means no control over immigration to England, contrary to what England voted for.
Border controls with Eire will infuriate the nationalists.
Border controls at the mainland ports and airports will infuriate the Unionists.
Click to expand...

I think there are more economic problems that will be more immediate.
 
barros said:
The reason we have the electoral system in US is to protect the smaller states and we can see in EU would be no protection at all, if France and Germany decide to elect someone then they would win all the time.
Click to expand...

Rhode Island gets an equal number of electoral college votes as California? Oh wait..
 
x42bn6 said:
It's not directly proportional.

barros's statement probably makes more sense in the context of the Senate, where every state has two Senators, regardless of the population of the state.
Click to expand...

No, its not directly proportional, but its not nearly as even as say.. every state being able to veto any treaty change they want, like the EU.
 
Stanley Road said:
How can you not like the place you were born? Unless you were born in Chad maybe or Aleppo. I never say I'm british because I'm not, I am English.

Why are you not proud then?
Click to expand...

You're English, British, European and an Earthling because that was where you were born geographically.

You may have loved where you grew up, I did, fantastic place when I was young. People who were brought up in the worst tenements in some crumby city estate may like that as well.

But that is removed from being proud of being English - fair, tolerant, friendly, helpful, innovative, cultural, what happened to this, or was it always just a myth.
 
Stanley Road said:
cos its beautiful place. As i have said before, would be happy to move back if i did not have to work there.
Click to expand...
So England is a beautiful place but Scotland, Wales and NI aren't? Or why the distinction between Britain and England?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.