Yep, but it was a leaked memo about a meeting with City grandees, so you'd have expected him to be trying to soothe their nerves, no threatening them with a hard Brexit.
The EU will probably kick us up the arse as head out of the door too...
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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The EU will probably kick us up the arse as head out of the door too...
Can he really do that though? Lets say Davis had already called 6-7 top European people and all of them told him to sod it off what do you expect him to tell the City grandees? "Erm I tried but those evil people won't allow the UK to cherry pick the deal we want?"
Its still early days however I wont be surprised if the UK gets nothing from the EU. If that happens then rest assured that the Tory party will spin their propaganda machine in a way to make it look as if it was their plan all along.
I don't know, I just have minimal faith in him tbh. I don't think that neither Davis nor the hardcore Brexit voters want to remain in the common market, so we can 'take back control'. You what the regions think of London and the City- they'd rather we all wallow in collective penury than have financial services continue to be a success.
This is what I believe. You're free to agree or disagree
I think that there are four type of Brexiters. I am talking here about politicians here
a- Those who campaigned in favour of Brexit because they thought its their best chance to cripple Cameron. In reality they are not pro Brexit and they seriously thought that that the remain will win (ex Boris)
b- Those who made a living out of populism and thought they will keep on doing that for the rest of their lives (ie Farage)
c- Those who truly believed that Brexit would do good for the UK (ex Davis)
d- Those who are not in favour of Brexit but now the it had been voted in and there's no turning back.
Most of C believed that the UK was simply too big for the EU for it to close the door at its face. Some,were totally ignorant of how the EU work. For example Davis thought that it was possible to make a deal with the individual 4-5 EU rich countries while closing the door at the face of the others. That will allow the UK to have unrestricted access to the German, French, Dutch and possibly the Italian and Spanish market while keeping the pesky Romanians and Bulgarians out. It turned out that it doesn't work like that.
So imagine yourself as one of these guys. They promised heaven on earth while basing themselves on a strategy which was completely wrong. What would they do now? Plan B would be to try to get the best deal possible, something that can link what they promised to what it can be achieved. Yet what would happen if that is just not possible? An honourable man with some integrity would just resign but we all know that these people do not exist especially in the Tory party.
The other option would be to threaten to sever ties and hope that the opposing party will be scared shit to offer something. If they dont call bluff then simply sever all ties and come out with the brilliant idea that that what was planned from day 1. Sure the economy may go tits up. However who cares? Davis is 67, May is 60, and Boris Johnson/Farage will be in their mid 50s by the time shit hits fan. The latter can even rely on an MEP pension.
UK citizens will get individual opt-in to remain EU citizens, chief negotiator Guy Verhofstadt confirms
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...tiator-guy-verhofstadt-confirms-35281613.html
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...tiator-guy-verhofstadt-confirms-35281613.html
I doubt this is going to happen.
I can't get my head around that one.
Nor seen anything about what the fee would be. Per person or per adult ? Annual or one-off ? Could be a nice little earner for the EU.
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Pretty cool if so I guess. Depending on how much it cost I'd potentially opt in. Surely it'd be problematic in certain respects though?
That's a reasonable summary of the different types of Brexiteers (with May fumbling along in the fourth category). The Davis's of this world completely underestimated what Brexit involved, perhaps because they had never seriously expected it to happen and treated it like some romantic affectation. Sad to say but, given I have no faith in the UK political leadership to fashion a workable compromise, the best hope for the UK to get a deal is continuing instability in Europe.
Not really, UK citizens are allowed to hold dual nationality so it's just a case of making the EU passport the equivalent of a dual nationality and resolving issues like where your voting rights go.
I 'look forward' to the the red-tops & politicians calling those people traitors, and inciting violence.
Whats this? A bit of positivity amongst the doom?
I look forward to all those who voted leave secretly opting to remain EU citizens so that they can have their cake and eat it too and the fallout that follows when politicians who campaigned hard for leave are found to have applied to keep their EU citizenship because even they know that it was a stupid idea.
We'll certainly be taking EU citizenship if it's offered. I'd rather be an EU citizen than a Brit, quite honestly.
It reads as if this is an initiative by Goerens (spell?) and Verhofstadt but I doubt that it'll be backed by a majority of MEPs (seems as if it has not even been discussed in EP) and also that it is their call alone to decide upon.
Agreed
Hmmm perhaps we can pull out of the EU and if the EU are up for this, the UK Govt can pay for everyone to be an 'EU citizen' and problem solved!
I thought over 50% of the country wanted nothing to do with Europe
It would be ironic if more than half the population applied for EU citizenship after all the noise the referendum made and would show quite how committed to their ideals the Brexiters really were although not quite as demonstratively as those who bang on about taking back control for Britain only to then announce they are emigrating and don't give a toss if the results of the referendum pile financial woes on the UK.I'm a keen Brexiteer and would still apply. I hate the EU and what it stands for and is trying to do (and the mannerism), but if I get the right to move around the EU freely (which I MAY use one day), for a fee, I would take it! Best case scenario from a selfish perspective.I thought over 50% of the country wanted nothing to do with Europe
It's like saying all Remainers should just flee to the EU if they love and relate to be being European more than being British!
It's that two faced selfishness we've come to expect and revile in so many of the Brexit icons which is likely to mean that the idea of Associate EU Citizenship is very unlikely to be offered.
Believe me, if the country does head down the toilet I will be off, I've already got options in France, the NL or Belgium if we still need to be close enough to our ageing relatives to be there quickly but could just as easily go further afield again. Whether we're offered associate citizenship or not there's a large number of high end earners and tax payers who either already are leaving or who are biding their time before deciding which will only worsen the plight of the poor sods who voted Brexit alongside you believing all your lies about making Britain great again. Not that you'll give a toss from your new home in Canada, you'll be like Stan looking forward to cheap trips back to the UK when the pound is down at 30p to the €.
I'm in section D of Devlish's options. I'm staying no matter how bad it gets or how long it takes or which form of Brexit we end up with, which is why I hope it goes well and the UK flourishes. I can't understand people who live here and seem to wish for the worst it doesn't make much sense to me.
I suppose you feel the same about all the would be new EU citizens who keep their British passports and come running back if it doesn't work out well for them?Two sides of the same coin if you ask me.
Please note that list (like most criticism towards Brexiters) is addressed towards UK politicians and ringleaders. Not towards voters.
Well no, it's nothing like that.
Fearing the worst and wishing for it are not the same thing. Many of us have been saying for a very long time that leaving the EU, particularly in the present financial climate, is potentially ruinous for the UK in the short to medium term and indeed we may never recover. I'm not saying all of us are experts but along with the experts you all despise so much we all found ourselves being ignored. To see many of the signs of what we warned coming true is not something we're reveling in, I'm personally secure and have little to fear from Brexit but I see it as being very damaging for my daughter's opportunities in years to come and know that when she has children they will have far fewer opportunities than I had and that some of those lost opportunities will be as a direct result of the Brexit vote.
As for EU citizenship, taking up the option to travel and work abroad does not mean you abandon your home country. We were gone for almost 15 years in Asia, where thankfully the bulk of my pension resides and is relatively immune to the pound tanking, we still voluntarily paid into the National Insurance system for that whole time and always knew we would at some stage return to care for our ageing parents and watch with pride as our daughter put down her own roots. I don't much like the country I've come back to, I find the bitter divides, the casual racism, the me first culture and the political system repugnant but I am British and still have family and friends here who I care dearly about and I do still believe there are things here worth fighting for, I just never expected the whole scale stupidity this year has wrought.
We? I didn't know that you were English. I, obviously mistakenly, thought were a migrant.
I wont be applying. if I need a visa for a 2 week jolly in Portugal at the cost of a fiver or free, then I will do that. Paying for EU citizenship is madness especially if you are not a frequent visitor.
You have to admit that there are some that do, or so it would seem, just so they can say "i told you so"
No chance in freezing hell this is going to happen. Giving people in the UK a vote in the EP election while they are not part of it is so fundamentally stupid and undemocratic, a lot of partys will run riot. Also, it shouldn't be an option. Move out of the UK and apply if you want, but don't expect it to just be given to you. If you read colosely, it get's clea it's basically something the LibDems and Verhofstadt want and will bring up in spring when the parliament formulates its position.
Verhofstadt will just take a beating over this and the proposal will never come up again.
Verhofstadt will just take a beating over this and the proposal will never come up again.
Schadenfreude is tempting when there are so many signs that the ship is at least listing if not full on sinking as you predicted. When you're in the same boat though it's not wishing us to sink faster that causes the trapped remainers to point out the increasing number of leaks, it's the hope that at some stage the Brexiters might listen to us or at least think for themselves and stop drilling new holes in the bottom of the boat to let the water out.
I am indeed English born and bred.
Bayond all the fist fights, I genuinely believe Brexit is in the benefit of the country over the long term and thereby voted for it.
Moving to Canada has nothing to do with it, and if I was utterly short-termist and selfish about it I'd have voted Remain in a heartbeat to be absolutely honest.
I agree that the EU thing is very unlikely to happen.
Am surprised it's even an option that they have brought up!
On one hand they don't care about us and don't want to negotiate, on the other they are bending over backwards to accommodate us.
EU benefits minus all the stupid self-manufactured strings attached is ideal for us thanks!
Its still ironic as hell that you criticize the EU for it's money shuffeling and alas and you are considering a move to Canada of all places
Just read what I wrote. It's LibDems + Verhofstadt, they will NEVER get that through parliament next spring. It's not an offer yet and it never will be. Stupid article by the guardian.
Most Europeans do care, they would far rather a strong and successful UK remained within the Union and helped move things forward than see us either succeed albeit more slowly or flounder and fail outside the EU. It's not even that they don't want to negotiate, the rules* state that they can't negotiate until Article 50 is activated but nobody on the Brexit side cares about rules so they'll continue blaming it on EU indifference. They are trying to find ways to accommodate us as they possibly forlornly hope, as do I, that someone will see sense before pressing the eject button.
I'm not expecting a sensible answer, but for the umpteen millionth time this year would you care to name these self manufactured strings that the EU had you so bound up in?
* Unless of course those rules have Made in Britain** stamped on the bottom
** By a non fencing and definitely not openly gay judge of course
The ship has been listing for years and despite that the uk has produced better growth figures than the eu. I don't know if you remember that thread about the economy on here where everyone was moaning that Europe was holding uk growth back? I bet some of the same people are arguing the case for prosperity is to remain in the eu.
Whatever you are smoking, it isn't healthy. I'd further recommend you read news on Brexit from a more neutral source than Murdoch media, Breitbart, Russia Today or delusional UKIP/Tory folks.
You mean like asking the uk to reveal its position on eu citizens already living in the uk but not wanting to reveal their on position on brits already in the eu?
You voted out, not the EU chucking you out, what is there to negotiate - no FoM = no Single Market, no cherry picking - you wanted out - get out and deal with the problems you are bringing on yourselves.
The EU didn't want the Uk to leave - but if it does finally go then you have to look after yourself and there is no way the EU are going to make it easy.
And I doubt the idea about associate membership will ever happen.