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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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Classical Mechanic said:
You are getting excited. The world pretty fecked right now. China are saying they would step in for the USA in TTP, hypothetically the UK could get involved. All bets are off at the moment.
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I assure you that I am not. I am only being realistic.

TPP is in the pacific, TTIP is its European version. Neither of them are liked by Trump.

Also Good luck dealing with China especially after putting doubts on their integrity. Not to forget that China is a big bully. They will expect you to open your market wide to their product but would want concessions on their side of the deal (that's what they did with the Swiss). With the UK showing its back to Europe and with the US being lead by a populist whose a big fan of protectionism its the worse time in history to be a small fish whom no one really likes.

The UK should really consider allowing the US to take control. Who knows maybe Trump will put in a good word to allow you to enter into a new, heavily US oriented NAFTA. OK May will probably be a facade and the one really ruling would be Farage, who'll be so grateful at Trump to allow him to do anything he wants. Alternatively the UK should slide into the EEA. I doubt it will be able to keep the xenophobic lot happy with that though.
 
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rcoobc said:
Hey I'm for the single market! I think their should be a minimum corporation tax rate, a minimum VAT rate. I think the EU should take the first 10% of the EU citizens income tax (although I also agree with the personal allowance, so not sure how that works).

I don't have a problem.

But originally, I was replying to Paul who said that VAT, corporation tax, etc was **nothing** to do with the EU. And I said, well, they are **a bit** to do with the EU
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Ok I'll concede it has a bit to do with it but as no EU country is at the 15% minimum and VAT (or equivalent) is present in most countries of the world - not a lot
 
rcoobc said:
Hey I'm for the single market! I think their should be a minimum corporation tax rate, a minimum VAT rate. I think the EU should take the first 10% of the EU citizens income tax (although I also agree with the personal allowance, so not sure how that works).

I don't have a problem.

But originally, I was replying to Paul who said that VAT, corporation tax, etc was **nothing** to do with the EU. And I said, well, they are **a bit** to do with the EU
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Yeah but the debate was about who makes the rate not if there are rules. Obviously there are rules since the EU is an organized market and these rules have been agreed by all the members but Brussels doesn't decide which rate you will apply.


Edit: If the debate was about whether the EU have a framework then we are all morons to even try to debate about that.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
:lol:

Doh!

Point still stands though. Western politics are up in the air at the moment. Anything can happen so I don't take much notice of 'the UK is the back of the queue'. Who is listening to Obama now?
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you have to admit that things doesn't look good though. The EU seem to be united, at least in terms of Brexit. Canada had clearly stated that the EU will be given priority over the UK. India had been quite hostile and Trump is not exactly a big fan of free trade deals.
 
devilish said:
you have to admit that things doesn't look good though. The EU seem to be united, at least in terms of Brexit. Canada had clearly stated that the EU will be given priority over the UK. India had been quite hostile and Trump is not exactly a big fan of free trade deals.
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Things look bloody awful! Donald Trump is president and is trying to get Nigel Farage working for our government!!

Relatively we are in a period of political chaos so I have no clue how it will turn out. Trump getting in to power is a good thing for the UK, purely on a trade deal basis I believe.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Things look bloody awful! Donald Trump is president and is trying to get Nigel Farage working for our government!!

Relatively we are in a period of political chaos so I have no clue how it will turn out. Trump getting in to power is a good thing for the UK, purely on a trade deal basis I believe.
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I disagree. Trump hates free trade agreements. He wants to eliminate TPP and any further talks about TTIP and he had already called for reforms to the NAFTA agreement to make them more US friendly. The guy is the typical US ruthless business shark. Any deal would probably be a poisonous chalice, heavily staked towards the US.

Clinton might have talked big but ultimately she would want the UK support over Syria. Trump can't care less. He's already agressively pushing the UK to the edge with Farage's appointment and you haven't yet asked anything from him yet.
 
devilish said:
I disagree on this. Trump hates free trade agreements. He wants to eliminate TPP and any further talks about TTIP and he had already called for reforms to the NAFTA agreement to make it more US friendly. The guy is the typical US ruthless business shark. Any deal would probably be a poisonous chalice, heavily staked towards the US.
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Ripping up TTP puts the other countries involved at a loose end and opens up possibilities for bilateral deals to be made, or perhaps something with other Anglosphere nations?
 
It will be easier for Trump to sell a narrow, bilateral trade deal with a nation of comparable economic development, than a far reaching multinational monster like TTIP. Sure, neither may arise, but the chances of the former occurring are greater.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Ripping up TTP puts the other countries involved at a loose end and opens up possibilities for bilateral deals to be made, or perhaps something with other Anglosphere nations?
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I don't think so. The EU doesn't need TTP and tbf, its a sign of relief for the EU as that means that they will not be blamed for its dismissal. Trump provides the federalists more fuel to push their agenda through. They will argue that Europe can't rely on outsiders as they may change stance at any time. The UK will be seen as an outsider too.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
:lol:

Doh!

Point still stands though. Western politics are up in the air at the moment. Anything can happen so I don't take much notice of 'the UK is the back of the queue'. Who is listening to Obama now?
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True, anything could happen at the moment; the West is too unstable politically, the East and the Russians must be having a good old laugh

On first thought Trump getting in may have been good for the UK - on second thoughts, possibly not
The special USA/UK relationship exists from one perspective - from the UK, not necessarily the other way round
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
It will be easier for Trump to sell a narrow, bilateral trade deal with a nation of comparable economic development, than a far reaching multinational monster like TTIP. Sure, neither may arise, but the chances of the former occurring are greater.
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However is that what the UK need? Trump is a business shark who knows that the US hold all the cards in its hands. It doesn't need the UK to prosper but a trade deal with it will be some sort of act of solidarity towards a historic ally. Some kind of an act of charity towards a friend in need.

Of course, the UK will have to dance to his tunes and accept what he's ready to give. Beggars can't be choosers right? (Im using Trump's way of thinking here so don't crucify me)
 
devilish said:
I don't think so. The EU doesn't need TTP and tbf, its a sign of relief for the EU as that means that they will not be blamed for its dismissal. Trump provides the federalists more fuel to push their agenda through. They will argue that Europe can't rely on outsiders as they may change stance at any time. The UK will be seen as an outsider too.
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Sounds like the EU is going to turn all insular and closed minded. Say it ain't so...;)
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Ripping up TTP puts the other countries involved at a loose end and opens up possibilities for bilateral deals to be made, or perhaps something with other Anglosphere nations?
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But they don't want bilateral deals, the all point of these agreements is to create/access huge markets.

Edit: I don't know the country but from a size standpoint Indonesia is a better fit than the UK.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Sounds like the EU is going to turn all insular and closed minded. Say it ain't so...;)
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The Western world is going insular. UK, US.

I think the EU will follow the lead, at least, until Storm Donald passes. It will focus on an EU military programme just in case Mr Putin invades and will try to repair the numerous weaknesses within the EU structure. The UK will become the perfect example of what happens to a country who leaves the EU, so I doubt that there will be plenty of appeasement on that part.

China might take this opportunity to increase its status within the globalized world. A China-EU TPP sort of deal might be enough to steal Europe from the US.
 
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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Not when those minimums potentially inflate prices for the poorest on society. But the EU's actions on austerity rather speak for themselves i would suggest.
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Those minimums finance the state and partially allow people to not mortgage their housing in order to pay hospital bills.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Not when those minimums potentially inflate prices for the poorest on society. But the EU's actions on austerity rather speak for themselves i would suggest.
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That's just how every government works. The USA sets minimum and maximum for each state to implement. The UK is setting a minimum for Scotland when it gets its own tax powers.

The EU is just a government. 15% minimum stops someone like Luxembourg drooping their tax to something stupid and undercutting everyone else
 
JPRouve said:
Those minimums finance the state and partially allow people to not mortgage their housing in order to pay hospital bills.
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rcoobc said:
That's just how every government works. The USA sets minimum and maximum for each state to implement. The UK is setting a minimum for Scotland when it gets its own tax powers.

The EU is just a government. 15% minimum stops someone like Luxembourg drooping their tax to something stupid and undercutting everyone else
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If a British government wished to have a 0% rate for utilities to ease the plight of customers, why should it be prevented from doing so? The same could soon apply to children's clothing.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
If a British government wished to have a 0% rate for utilities to ease the plight of customers, why should it be prevented from doing so? The same could soon apply to children's clothing.
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Because you are member of a single market, in such markets the VAT is paid once. Companies could easily sell their goods through the UK and completely dodge the VAT.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
If a British government wished to have a 0% rate for utilities to ease the plight of customers, why should it be prevented from doing so? The same could soon apply to children's clothing.
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Because we made an agreement with the other 27 countries that we would abide by a fixed set of rules, including having a minimum VAT level on most products. There are rules that we don't like. There are rules that Germany doesn't like. There are rules that France doesn't like. We all have to deal with it like grown ups.

Now if the UK went to the other 27 countries and said "listen guys, I need help. Can you allow us to put 0% vat on utilities"? And they said "sure thing my good friend United Kingdom. Let's get that sorted for you". Then the 27 countries and the UK could make an exception.

Unfortunately our relationship with the EU27 is basically in the mud, and visa versa.
 
JPRouve said:
Because you are member of a single market, in such markets the VAT is paid once. Companies could easily sell their goods through the UK and completely dodge the VAT.
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It would be hard for household gas/electricity to do that which I think is why Nick chose that example, but yes.
 
rcoobc said:
It would be hard for household gas/electricity to do that which I think is why Nick chose that example, but yes.
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Yeah that's true I was in a more general POV. But if you limit it to utilities, there is still a financing problem most of these things are heavily financed by the states, who is going to pay the bill?
 
Aurier hasn't been granted access to the UK. Brexit to control their borders they said.
 
Stanley Road said:
Tree house market.

So if you hire a builder materials will have 6% vat. we had double doors fitted during such a period.
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That makes sense actually.

In the UK, I think companies and individuals reclaim the VAT on new builds.
 
rcoobc said:
That makes sense actually.

In the UK, I think companies and individuals reclaim the VAT on new builds.
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In France the VAT is higher on new builds, renovations of old and ecological upgradings are at 5.5%.
 
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