They'll come to a compromise I think. It's all part of the process of coming to a deal.
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They'll come to a compromise I think. It's all part of the process of coming to a deal.
The EU puts a floor under working rights that individual nations may build up, but not go under. British workers rights will be trashed by the Tories once we are out
I don't get the feeling from this thread that you have any rights at the moment
I much doubt it tbh. Patience is running thin and theres a big gulf between the two parties. In my opinion it would be stupid from the eu to give any shred of influence to the uk/us. Its evident that they dont have Europe best interest at heart
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There's a lot to lose for both sides. The multi nationals such such as Shell, Unilever and GlaxoSmithKline will be lobbying hard with both sides and I think the UK gouvernment also wants to remain in the single market. The big challenge here is the issue on freedom of movement. That will take some before it's resolved, but I suspect it will be resolved eventually.
I doubt that any of them will bulge. Theresa's hands are tied on freedom of movement while the Eastern/Southern European bloc will defend freedom of movement rights to the end. Nevertheless, the EU would be stupid to trust the UK again. Its time for the continent to grow up and do not let external influences having so much say about its matters. You don't see Russia asking China to provide military assistance or giving it a say on its politics
Think this will continue for a long time, the Court decision bought May some time, and contesting it will give her more time.
They have no idea what to do or what they genuinely think they can gain from Brexit.
All we hear from Leave is - "we won" - what did they win, no-one can tell us.
The Vote
Congratulations
What I see as happening is that the British elite will be at loggerheads with the European elite and I don't think people appreciate just how important saving the EU is for the latter. As I see it, if the EU concedes too much, the EU will collapse or be in danger of dong so. With it will go the Euro. What then ?
Honestly, nobody seems to be taking this political aspect of things into consideration. If it was only economics, why hasn't Merkel given in to German business over Russian sanctions ? What are the economic benefits of not exporting to Russia ?
Honestly, nobody seems to be taking this political aspect of things into consideration. If it was only economics, why hasn't Merkel given in to German business over Russian sanctions ? What are the economic benefits of not exporting to Russia ?
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You'd think the U.K. invaded the Ukraine or summat the way some are arguing.
It's the interest of the EU and U.K. for the U.K. to remain part of the single market. On the other hand, the EU don't want to set a precedent. So it'll be tricky to find a solution.
But I think they'll probably come to some agreement along the way considering what's at stake.
It's the interest of the EU and U.K. for the U.K. to remain part of the single market. On the other hand, the EU don't want to set a precedent. So it'll be tricky to find a solution.
But I think they'll probably come to some agreement along the way considering what's at stake.
If I had to bet, I'd say it's going to the same deal Cameron got. FoM stays (with benefits being time locked), we remain in the single market and our fee is reduced slightly (with subsidies for the UK being cut to 0). Which is a pretty shit deal, cos we'd also lose our veto and EU parliament votes this time round. But, heyho, they won.
With so many non eu people at my place of work i dont understand why fom is so important. Having said that, some are waiting to qualify for eu passports so they can settle in the uk. I guess that hope has gone to shit now.
Without freedom of movement the financial costs of moving to a new country tend to be much higher, and of course richer people get an extra advantage because they're far more likely to qualify due to educational qualifications etc. Removing FOM is basically yet another kick in the teeth for poor people who have aspirations beyond their own national boundaries.
hmm maybe if they voted for Corbyn
Migration from non EU is still huge, the perception is that we are flooded by EU migrants is not entirely accurate. The whole immigration policy needs to be reviewed, not just EU. The elephant in the room is the UK guilt over former colonies.
The fact that people are too afraid to protest when their rights are infringed or even stand up for themselves when they believe their employer is forcing them into situations potentially hazardous to their health or even life threatening does not mean those protections are not there, just that some people buy into all the "jobs are scarce, there's queues of immigrants waiting to steal yours" bullshit peddled by the Mail, Sun etc which allows employers to get away with flouting the legislation and the government to continue ignoring it.
The EU, among many other things provides:
- The UK have resisted the legislation on written contracts but thansk to the EU all employees must be given a written statement relating to their working hours and pay within 28 days of starting a job, they are also pushing for zero hour contracts to be treated the same way but employers find ways around that by declaring every 12 day consecutive break without work as the end/start of a new employment period.
- Paid annual leave for all employees, including zero hour contracts, became compulsory in 1998 thanks to the EU. Prior to that there were at least 6 million workers in the EU with no paid leave.
- The EU restricts the working week to 48 hours, including at least one 24 hour rest day per week and 11 consecutive rest hours per day. Workers have the right to opt out and work longer hours but employers do not have the right to insist.
- Maternity leave in the UK was already in line with the EU regulations but the EU brought in stronger protections against discrimination and job protection as well as ensuring pension contributions were maintained.
- The EU increased the right for both partners to take unpaid parental leave helping families cover illness, school holidays etc without fearing for their jobs.
- Equal pay for equal value of work regardless of gender which had previously been missing from UK employment discrimination law allowing employers to undervalue women in the workplace.
- Stronger protection against discrimination with the burden of proof resting with the employer rather than the claimant.
- Protection of a workers rights under a "Transfer of Undertakings" when a business is taken over, preventing the new owner from getting rid of staff unfairly.
- A protection of collective bargaining and employee representation and consultation hanging onto the last vestiges of what our unions once stood for.
- Improved Health and Safety regulations, whilst the UK was already pretty good with the regulations they were less strict on the enforcement and have been brought into line with major changes in particularly dangerous industries like construction, oil & gas, heavy mechanical engineering etc.
Do you genuinely believe that any future tory government in the UK will not seek to eat away at many of these workers rights to entice big companies to exploit us just a little bit more in their quest to make Britain Great again? Unlike @Paul the Wolf I sadly fear I do understand what that phrase means, in my humble opinion the political elite would love nothing more than for the British working man to put his nose to the grindstone, break his back, sweat blood and be grateful that his employer sees fit to throw him a crust not forgetting to doff his cap to the mill owner as he passes and retain a stiff upper lip rather than that wobbly bottom one we're more accustomed to these days. A northern powerhouse that sees a return of the workhouse, the poorhouse and foodbanks and for us all to shut up and be grateful for it whilst their corporate buddies slip the politicians a few bob to make it so.
The ECJ would offer support to people like the earlier poster who felt they had to act in contradiction to what they knew to be safe because their employer insisted and they feared for their job, I'll not lambast him any more as only he knows how dangerous his job is and how precarious his work position but as I've already said, no job is worth risking your life or health or that of others and nobody has the right (at present) to insist you do it.
I doubt half of your bullet points are adhered to and especially the zero hour contracts
Then people are fools for not standing up for their rights, for not striving for a better work life balance and for letting business and politicians get away with flouting the rules. I don't rigidly follow the working hours directive myself, sometimes going 2 or 3 times over their limit but do lie about meeting it's requirements in timesheets I have to submit which may be audited as part of my company's Network Rail licensing if they chose to audit us whilst working on one of their contracts and would change my routine and ensure I wasn't burning the midnight oil if I was required on a rail site just as I have not touched drugs for over 15 years due to the same potential for a random test. That is however my choice, I'm well paid for a senior roll and ensure the work life balance swings back in my direction when it is convenient to do so along with various other perks of the position. Were I still a minimum wage site operative or desk jockey then you would not catch me going over the working hours directive unless it suited me financially and was advancing my position.
Where things like H&S are concerned I worked on site before many of the sensible regulations came into place and flung around 50kg kerb stones, cement bags etc for fun and would even climb ladders with 100kg rolls of lead flashing on my shoulder, I was young enough and daft enough to think it was a laugh and thankfully big enough that I didn't sustain any injuries although in retrospect I do wonder if the spinal decompression surgery I underwent at 36 wasn't down to things I did on site at 22. Those were my choice and my personal risk however, where the lives of myself or others are potentially at risk then that's a line I would never have crossed and have always stood my ground over.
Yes i agree, again its upto joe soap to look after himself time and time again as it means feck all what the eu put on paper in this instance. many people at my place do 80 hours a week. I do 40
Sarkozy going out in the first round of voting would be nice.
wow France = right vs far-right
I jusr read a long article about the italian economy and in particular Renzi. when us their referendum on reform?
That could be interesting
That could be interesting
Just over half the polling stations votes declared
Fillon 44% Juppé 27% Sarkozy 23%
At this stage Sarkozy going out --- Yes!
Fillon 44% Juppé 27% Sarkozy 23%
At this stage Sarkozy going out --- Yes!
December 4th
...you realise this is the primary for the Republican candidate?
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Well, yeah but a huge likelihood it'll be this right-winger vs Le Pen?
And with Italian referendum, Austria, Holland, etc.....
Fillon hasnt won yet.
Over 75% of polling stations declared
Fillon 44% Juppé 28% Sarkozy 21%
Fillon 44% Juppé 28% Sarkozy 21%
Apologies, I understand the winner of this contest will probably face Le Pen, with 'the left in disarray' - just what I saw on the news. Seems yet another country where the left needs to regroup, was my point.
What's caused Fillon's support to shoot up so much recently?
The last debate on TV between the 7 candidates swung heavily in Fillon's favour, Juppé had been leading the polls all along
Sarkozy admits defeat
When the UK build all these new hospitals with the money they're saving from the EU, they forgot they might need some staff as well
Oh the left is definitely in disarray, I just thought you were referring to the fact Fillon is quite right wing - moreso than Juppé. Juppé against Le Pen wouldnt be a disaster imo, and the coming week is going to be a big one for Fillon. He was an outsider for a long time, now he's going to be under the microscope and a lot of his very conservative ideas will be put forward. Even though he's won easily today, not sure its that clear cut for next week.
Please don't continue with a false rhetoric of Brexiteers want to turn off immigration and draw up the bridges.
Absolutely false - but controlled immigration is key.
My wife is Canadian, yes the liberal, immigration friendly country, and even she (and her friends that i speak to) are shocked at our immigration 'policy'. Why are we discriminating against a medical worker from, say Malaysia, NZ or other parts of the world - whereas a totally unskilled individual from anywhere in Europe can just walk in and live as if it's their own country. Absurd!
Tosspot. Merkels friend
cos those are the rules an 48% luv it
It really winds me up:
'Oh you support Brexit, you must be racist'
'Why do you want to cut off from the rest of the world' etc etc
I just have no energy to intellectually debate back anymore
