What were the biggest selling newspapers in the 70s? Were they misinforming people before the EU referendum then? You're an old man, you should remember
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Exactly, why should a country pay full price to deal with non trade countries?
If you can afford a bmw now you can afford it at a higher price
Interesting article on the 2 refs
http://www.historyextra.com/article/international-history/1975-referendum
http://www.historyextra.com/article/international-history/1975-referendum
Unfortunately for the UK it will have to deal with each and every country in the EU as deals are done in a collective manner and every country has the right to veto it. These countries will make sure that the deal works for them. So if a country doesn't sell in the UK and relies heavily on freedom of movement then I cant see them settle for a deal that doesn't involve freedom of movement.
I agree with the latter part
What were the biggest selling newspapers in the 70s? Were they misinforming people before the EU referendum then? You're an old man, you should remember
Don't remember the Mail and Express being like they are now. The UK were in a desperate situation in the 70s and the EEC was a very good thing for the UK. I was very young then and was so happy when the UK joined. The referendum was the first thing I voted in after the October 1974 General election (the only time I voted Labour) with a clear majority in favour. The surviving people who voted then are now the older generation that have mainly voted against the EU now.
As an "old" man now and having voted Conservative most of my life I don't fit into the category of old Conservative voters. Perhaps because I have had more experience of life outside the insular mentality of older Brits
Uuurgh, i am having dialogue with a tory, shoot me someone
At the end of the day you are responsible by proxy for uk leaving
At the end of the day you are responsible by proxy for uk leaving
I haven't voted since 2005
By the way it's not just BMW's, Renault, Peugeot, Citroën, Fiat, Seat etc etc
May i ask which party do you support?
Regardless of interest rates I would advise against buying a house in Warrington
The UK will still end up paying more as they will already get a volume discount.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...ter-brexit-lawyer-tells-germans-a3380136.html
Has this been here? It had quite an impact on the community of German expats in London that I happen to have some connection with, a lot of people are reporting similar issues.
A friend of mine got insulted multiple times for speaking her language while on the phone, hearing things like "Go home" and stuff like that. We are talking London here. Of course, someone actually apologized when he realized she was German, because that's okay then.
Don't have doubts folks, people are leaving. Probably half of the expats I know in London are actively searching for a new job back home.
Has this been here? It had quite an impact on the community of German expats in London that I happen to have some connection with, a lot of people are reporting similar issues.
A friend of mine got insulted multiple times for speaking her language while on the phone, hearing things like "Go home" and stuff like that. We are talking London here. Of course, someone actually apologized when he realized she was German, because that's okay then.
Don't have doubts folks, people are leaving. Probably half of the expats I know in London are actively searching for a new job back home.
Have they decided which nationalities are acceptable and which are not?
But you know this is a figment of your imagination.
Assuming it is alright for the British tourists to go abroad and speak only English and if the person they are talking to doesn't understand them (which they jolly well should
) they just increase the volume as if this will help. So proud to be British.Labour, that wont ever change
"I wouldn't say I'm a communist but I have been in the red all my life"
Woody Guthrie
It's not just the expats, my brother in law and family are in the Netherlands this weekend scoping a new home and negotiating the final bits of his new job, he's a Dr of chemistry and patent lawyer. I've already got an agreement in places with my bosses that if the country does go to shit I can decamp to France, Belgium or the NL. I'm sure there's plenty in finance in London also weighing up their options on the continent in the event of a hard Brexit. What I'm less confident about is that the government will be calculating Britain's future economic success outside of the EU with the large hole in the tax coffers the departing expats, bankers and others will leave especially when you consider that the tax bills of most of those leaving are well in excess of the UK average household income and that's before you even factor in the trickle down effect these families' spending has on the economy as a whole.
Would any of the intelligent Brexiteers here with serious political reasons behind their desire to leave the EU deny that one of the most noticeable results of the June referendum was to tacitly legitimise the vicious, overtly xenophobic voices of the idiot minority that populate this island leading them to believe they personally have the right to pick and choose who lives here? Can you seriously deny that the result has left the UK a far more unpleasant place to be or that the financial consequences of the companies and people who leave because of the Brexit will add even greater discomfort to those who struggle most to make a living here?
There are a lot of extremely unpleasant people in the uk with or without a referendum. I used to hate going back to Woking and going out on the weekend as scumbags were fighting all over the streets by 9PM
I have not witnessed a punch up here in nearly 20 years.........oops tell a lie, there can sometimes be agro in the Irish pubs that are frequented by Brits.
8000 people signed a petition. There are loads of petitions started. It means very little.
Isn't it what the Jocks want?
That's not an answer to his question.
Don't usually say this but great stuff from Nick Cohen - https://www.theguardian.com/comment...esa-may-lie-and-lied-to-become-prime-minister
Except that theres been an actual recorded increase in hate crime which just blows that line of thinking out of the water.
Solid head in the sand moment yet again. AFAIK, you don't even live in the UK, so what do you base your expert opinions on?
I live in a Remain area and even here I've heard a few weird comments and offhand mentions of the kind I'd never would have before the poisonous environment this referendum ushered in.
Tosh
They were reported as fights in the old days but now they have a new label.
I live in a country where the PM recently told unruly Turks to "Fukk off back to your own country" on national tv.
So you can think all you like about hate crime but i doubt its anything like the crazy days of the NF
The difference in complexity of the remain and leave arguments, summarised in one exchange.Don't bother with him, I've yet to read a post with substance from him in this thread. It mostly goes like that:
"There has been an increase in hate crime in Britain since the referendum."
"Well, there have always been unpleasent people, Referendum or not."
"But this increase is actually recorded"
"Tosh, it was far worse in the old days"
or:
"My industrial sector is struggling because of Brexit and my job is at risk."
"Shit happens, I've lost my job 5 times already, just move on."
Add his favorite "All politicians are liars" line and when someone gives a detailed post to counter his 'arguments' he barely answers with a 'we see things differently' answer if not at all.
Nissan Brexit deal could lead to 'colossal bill for the tax payer'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...l-warning-greg-clark-nick-clegg-a7388771.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...l-warning-greg-clark-nick-clegg-a7388771.html
So the NHS is still fecked for the foreseeable future despite the supposed 350M a week that Brexit is supposed to deliver? I remember seeing somewhere the age bias in remain/leave factions with the older generation voting overwhelmingly to leave. Now these are the same people who still have to contend with reduced access to healthcare and longer waiting lists. Time and again it gets proven that people overwhelmingly vote against their own interests.
Do you really think using the lowest common denominator is the right approach to everything? I am no feeble diva but this type of thinking is just wrong.
You're right and that's why I've tried to stay away from arguing with these I-know-what's-best-and-facts-don't-matter people but irks me to no end.
So, i'm just wondering, who did you blame the rise in hate crime on when we weren't in the midst of a referendum?
I have not overheard, or been present near a single act of anti-immigrant abuse since June 23rd mind you. Not one.
Certainly, there were elements of the broader campaign who were prepared to use existing fears to their advantage, yet this well of sentiment would not exist to its present degree without the policies and broken promises of previous governments. We are also quite incapable of discussing immigration civilly in this country, which only furthers the toxicity (something we've seen demonstrated on this forum at times).
Must explain why all those younger voters who supported Labour in 2015, what with the party's significantly smaller commitment for the NHS budget. That the NHS is presently in difficulty has very little to do with what sort of Brexit windfall it might have received 2-3 years from now.
However, the principle of restoring those monies to the Treasury remains a valid one. The UK's contribution has risen by billions of pounds, and Brussels wanted even more; might not people rather spend that cash on the NHS instead of incurring a hike to income tax for example?
I have not overheard, or been present near a single act of anti-immigrant abuse since June 23rd mind you. Not one.
Certainly, there were elements of the broader campaign who were prepared to use existing fears to their advantage, yet this well of sentiment would not exist to its present degree without the policies and broken promises of previous governments. We are also quite incapable of discussing immigration civilly in this country, which only furthers the toxicity (something we've seen demonstrated on this forum at times).
Must explain why all those younger voters who supported Labour in 2015, what with the party's significantly smaller commitment for the NHS budget. That the NHS is presently in difficulty has very little to do with what sort of Brexit windfall it might have received 2-3 years from now.
However, the principle of restoring those monies to the Treasury remains a valid one. The UK's contribution has risen by billions of pounds, and Brussels wanted even more; might not people rather spend that cash on the NHS instead of incurring a hike to income tax for example?
This is a bit confusing, in case I wasn't clear I was talking about the projections for the NHS facing a budget allocation shortage for the next 3-5 years with hospitals forced to reduce staff and hours. So if the expectation is that money is being saved with Brexit and diverted to the treasury rather than being sent to Brussels, then why is there still such a bleak outlook for the NHS? I mean shouldn't the picture be a bit rosier?
Why are you suggesting it's an either/ or? You know it doesn't work like that.
It's quite obvious that that money paid was a necessity to being a member of the EU and its free market, membership of which has given HMRC far more money than it has spent on membership fees. Without paying those costs, and being a member of the free market and the economic benefits that brings, the government will have less income to spend on services such as the NHS. Unless you think that either the EU are going to give us access to the single market without paying these fees, or, we're going to leave the single market and the British economy won't suffer at all. Which is it?
Do you have any idea how vast the gap in funding actually is, and likely to rise to in the coming decades? There was never any suggestion that Brexit could solve the problem, only alleviate it.
And even if the Prime Minister had committed to a more realistic £100m/week figure, this would only amount to additional £5bn per year.
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If you stick your head in the sand you cannot see or hear what's going on around you. Ignoring facts is the best remedy for denying all knowledge.
The NHS line was a lie from the start. Even if there was money available who was going to guarantee that any money saved would go on the NHS anyway, as Brexiters said the people who represented the Leave campaign had no power or mandate to carry through their promises. It was just a pack of lies to entice gullible people to vote for what they wanted to believe would happen.
For a start there is zero guarantee that any money would be saved unless there is a total hard Brexit and no access to the single market. Even then there would be unlikely to be any savings as the Uk would then have to comply to WTO which will not be free.
This doesn't take into account the loss in revenue for the UK because of the devaluation of the pound. Higher unemployment and reduced income from taxes and so on.
There is no extra money available, there will be considerably less money available
Why is it so difficult to understand.
The NHS line was a lie from the start. Even if there was money available who was going to guarantee that any money saved would go on the NHS anyway, as Brexiters said the people who represented the Leave campaign had no power or mandate to carry through their promises. It was just a pack of lies to entice gullible people to vote for what they wanted to believe would happen.
For a start there is zero guarantee that any money would be saved unless there is a total hard Brexit and no access to the single market. Even then there would be unlikely to be any savings as the Uk would then have to comply to WTO which will not be free.
This doesn't take into account the loss in revenue for the UK because of the devaluation of the pound. Higher unemployment and reduced income from taxes and so on.
There is no extra money available, there will be considerably less money available
Why is it so difficult to understand.
You actually believe that all of our annual contribution is necessary and essential for the economic benefits we receive? A sizeable amount quite clearly owes its purpose to ideological motives (the project). How it sued tow work, rather than it could have operated, is partly why find ourselves in a Brexit Britain.
That's the thing, I see no alleviating going on and no indication of anything in the near horizon. Lack of access to healthcare in the right time is like a flesh wound that shouldn't be allowed to fester in any developed nation.
@Nick 0208 Ldn
What do you make of the content of May’s leaked speeches? Are you in favor of giving some industries special subsidies/privileges when they stay (e.g. Nissan)?
What do you make of the content of May’s leaked speeches? Are you in favor of giving some industries special subsidies/privileges when they stay (e.g. Nissan)?
The Mail, The Sun, UKIP and the right wing of the Tory party. The same hateful voices that led the Brexit campaign and imbued it with the sort of vile xenophobic tones that now seem to be acceptable in public. Lucky you if you've not heard it Nick although I'd suggest you're possibly choosing not to listen to anything that might make your hazy little post Brexit bubble seem less pleasant.
We're perfectly capable of discussing immigration in the UK, the problem lies in the fact that one side of the argument depend on lies and distortion of the true immigration figures in order to spread their fear and hatred. There is no reasoned argument against our present levels of immigration other than racism, all the talk about strains on housing, education and the NHS are misdirection, the problems exist because our government underfunds and poorly manages them all, the only input migrants have to the situation is to improve it through filling skill gaps and through contributing to our society as a whole through their tax payments.
This debate did get toxic but when one side choose to reproduce vile Nazi propaganda posters to demonise refugees and migrants it was never likely to stay civil.
All signs point to us having to continue paying into the EU for a considerable time to clear our debts and possibly continue paying ad infinitum for access to the EU markets so this windfall trumpeted by Brexit looks like it will never happen. Promising to pay it to the NHS and even going as far as plastering that promise on the side of a bus was a mistake that even Farage admitted, the fact was always that the NHS was already fecked and this government were never going to do enough to fix it with or without the mythical £350M a week.
What the Brexit side still refuse to admit is that we look likely to be much worse off after Article 50 is activated. Our economy is already at all time lows and is likely to drop much lower especially if a hard Brexit is taken, city businesses, their high paid employees and a large number of private individuals are very likely to bugger off to the continent and take their tax contributions with them. Departing blue collar industries will leave a jobs hole in already struggling parts of the country whilst those that remain will want so much in grants and exemptions from the government for their loyalty that they are likely to cost the taxpayer more.
Making long winded posts on a subject doesn't make it correct