Im sorry lad, you have some wild takes here. I’ve had plenty of dumb shit comments too.
But honestly, get off the internet and go for a walk if you think that Le Pen is to the left of Starmer.
It’s not stupid. It’s insulting.
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Im sorry lad, you have some wild takes here. I’ve had plenty of dumb shit comments too.
But honestly, get off the internet and go for a walk if you think that Le Pen is to the left of Starmer.
It’s not stupid. It’s insulting.
He's been doing his best to keep the racists and Brexiters happy. You think Starmer will be good for the UK? That's a wild take if I heard one.
Did I even asking anything about @Paul the Wolf moving back?
I asked why HE cares so much, both my parents live abroad they wouldn't be allowed in the country they are in if they wasn't citizens.
Brexit is the most moronic thing the Uk has ever done since the war and all the major parties are fine with that. Wake up!
Which country do they live in and have they taken the nationality of that country?
My wife never took British citizenship because she didn't need to.
Brexit has affected friends family and lots of people in a way that people have no idea about.
They'll be a lot of "expats" returning to the UK later in the year when the EU introduces the EES and Etias systems.
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Since which war? We didn't start the world war thought that was da Nazis
Funny enough La Pen dad loved the Nazis:
"I ask myself several questions. I'm not saying the gas chambers didn't exist. I haven't seen them myself. I haven't particularly studied the question. But I believe it's just a detail in the history of World War II." For Le Pen, the French deportation of 76,000 Jews from France to Nazi concentration camps, where they were killed, is a trivial matter, and he denies that 6 million Jews were killed, saying "I don't think there were that many deaths. There weren't 6 million
Bold is grim..
I never said the UK did. You're going off at a complete tangent here. Le Pen father is an evil piece of scum as was Petain during the war. I'm not a fan of his nasty daughter either but what's that got to do with Brexit.
I said Brexit is the most stupid thing SINCE the war.
I actually admire his dedication. It's a thankless task and, possibly sadly for him (as I don't know his age), ultimately a fruitless one as the prospect of a UK return to the EU is at least 20 years away imo.
When she ruled out leaving the EU it probably boosted her party's popularity. So no would be that answer to that.
Ah, you're talking about the war as a whole. As in, it was stupid..
Actually, I think the destabilisation of the middle east for weapons of mass destruction that wasn't there and the illegal invasion of the neighbour was high up the list.
Anyway... if she gets in, she will want to control the borders? Will she not?
If you don't mind me asking...what was the reasoning behind that?
I don't know if I'd call it dedication, it's like me moaning about the prices of an orange in Spain. I don't live there and actually has zero impact on my life.
She's a French citizen & could live in any EU country. As we left the UK 17 years ago, who would have thought that the UK would be that stupid. I took French citizenship the year after the referendum , which I may not have done either as there was no point previously.
Now if we did want to move back to the UK, we couldn't because she wouldn't have lived in the UK for five consecutive years and doesn't earn enough.
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You think Brexit will have no impact on your life. Come back in five years.
Destabilization of the Middle East - that will be something new then
As I said, the EES and ETIAS will be in force. And France will be in the EU even if Le Pen ever gets in.
The Uk have control of their borders , haha
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I don’t mean this to sound patronising but I can’t get my head around living in another country for that length of time (with the exception of an Irish person in your particular situation) and not seeking citizenship at some point.
Although I do appreciate that things aren’t as black and white given the EU context here, i.e. it’s not the same as an American living in a European country or Australia for example.
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Lived in Sweden for 10 years pre Brexit, had no intention of seeking citizenship until the dumb shit that was Brexit happened. What’s the point when we’re all EU citizens already?
I applied the day after Brexit, now I have the dumb shit of applying for UK passports for my girls, what a clusterfeck that is.
Interesting to see if her idea of national is ment for national French or European national, its a race to the bottom with movement of people in Europe IMO
It's a lot of borders to man is it.
As for the five year comment, I lived in the bull ring hulme in the 80s and had f all - looking around me now in the cotswolds it'll take some mad sh't to go back to that level grafting.
Most right wingers have no problems with EU movement in fairness, it’s those who don’t look like them which scare them.
Because (assuming it’s my intention to stay there permanently or for a lengthy period at least) I couldn’t be a full participant in my adopted country.
Do you think Le Pen is to the left of Starmer?
For the reasons I said although we did consider it early on way back, decades ago but couldn't afford it at the time. You're talking about changing nationality. Even though she loved the UK at the time, why would she want to become British and to apply for citizenship or what is now considered the right to stay didn't exist. And we didn't live in the Uk when all the sh!t happened.
PS She speaks perfect English, probably better than me. We are both bilingual.
My son-in-law is British and still only has British citizenship but applied for a residence permit (which is renewable), which he didn't need before, when Brexit happened and he's a proud Brit and doesn't want to change nationality.. My daughter has dual nationality like me but through birth. One of her children was born in the UK and also has dual nationality by birth. The youngest was born in France and only has French citizenship.
Crazy. Also it cost me €55 to take French Nationality. How much does it cost in the UK, a fortune.
Imagine the number of British people who were living in the EU or EU people living in the UK. It has affected so many lives in thousands of different ways other than what I've said above.
There are still a lot of Brits living without authority in the EU overstaying their 90 day visas. What is commonly known as illegal immigrants.
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Probably on some things. It was said in a bit of jest but Starmer is not left leaning.
Le Pen is a French Nationalist/Fascist that has stopped talking about leaving the EU. But is full on ‘feck brown immigrants’.
In a nutshell.
My mate is Parisian. Born to Algerian/Tunisian parents. She struggles with identity and acceptance of French/European-ness every day.
She has French uni friends that have a slight acceptance towards Le Pen. Mostly those friends from Marseille and the surrounding area.
Few people in France (as in almost none) have an issue with EU migrants.
Ha ha, what?
I was an EU citizen who could speak fluent Swedish and who fully embraced the Swedish culture. How the funk isn’t that full participant? You think a shitty piece of paper makes someone a better participant? Cause I can tell you, there’s a feck tonne of people in many countries with a piece of paper claiming them a “full participant” whilst they can’t speak the language, don’t get involved in the culture or traditions etc.
You sound a little bit like someone who’s never lived abroad and has some odd thoughts about what participating in a new country would mean.
Ahh ok.
I suppose it depends on one’s interpretation of it. I would see it more as taking on a citizenship…and therefore becoming a dual national (unless of course I was from a country which forbids dual citizenship).
I can only imagine the annoyance of that, both at the time and to this day. Keep plugging away in the thread. There’s this strange omertà around Brexit now in the British political establishment and it’s more important than ever for people to keep it as an active talking point at the very least.
There’s no need for explanation Paul but it’s much appreciated all the same. It’s good to hear the real human stories behind it all and my best wishes to you.
How much is it now just out of interest?
I recall reading that Starmer was a Pabloite in his younger days, and I don’t think he’s ever recanted from that.
Oh that's fecked. I was reading about the none french thing just before.
There are some really sad stories of people I know and knew. Some really disastrous where people have lost everything and even suicides.
People in the UK really have no idea what they voted for which is another reason I persist.
I'm so annoyed with Starmer now because the longer the denial continues the longer it will take to recover and return. And Brexit has a long way to go before it's fully implemented.
The cost is in the thousands I think but you also need to qualify to be able to apply which is even more difficult now.
I don't know why he cares either. Brexit doesn't affect him nor does nazi France. Dutch flowers rotting in Dover inspections should bother no one
Starmer believes in whichever way the wind's blowing.
Well for a start non-citizens usually can’t vote in general elections.
I said a full participant, not a better participant, even though I agree with you that those who do learn the language and engage in the native culture and traditions, and so on, are in actual fact better participants.
No, not really. I’m not saying this to have a go or anything, but you found out the cost of not having this ‘full participation’ and it has been to your detriment. Having it is a protective mechanism if nothing else.
The overarching point here is that immigrants shouldn’t sleep on their rights, as even citizenship isn't the same as nationality.
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I think that crazy le pen won't get in, well I hope not.
He certainly isnt a right wing, bet he hates them.
Victoria Starmer is London born-and-bred. She grew up in Gospel Oak, North London, to a Polish-Jewish father.
His children are raised in the Jewish faith. But don't tell the Hamas supporting voters.
So that’s it? The best reason you can come up with? Really?
I honestly couldn’t disagree more to be honest, living & experiencing a new culture is about throwing yourself into it, learning the language, the songs, the traditions, feeling like it’s home and that you’re a part of it.
A document and a general election voting right (local can still be voted on) means so very very little in the grand scheme of things.
How so?
Thousands.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ions-and-the-right-of-abode-from-6-april-2018
I have a colleague who is applying for indefinite leave to remain. That is at least £5k.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ot-stop-labour-trying-to-forge-better-eu-deal
“I genuinely don’t want to get ahead of myself,” he said. “Firstly, we haven’t seen the final outcome in France, we’ve also got a big outcome of our own on Thursday, so we need those two pieces to fall into place and to be clear, I don’t think it affects the overall intention that we have, which is to negotiate a better deal with the EU.”
“I think the deal we’ve got is botched, I think that anyone who does business with the EU feels that it’s botched and that we could do better than that, across not just trade but research and development, and also on the security front.”
While Starmer has ruled out radically reforming Britain’s ties with the EU, he has said a Labour government would “reset” its relationship with the EU, with members of his top team including David Lammy, Jonathan Reynolds and the Scottish Labour leader, Anas Sarwar, saying it would be in the country’s “national interest”.
Starmer said: “I’ve always supported bilaterals as well as EU-wide agreements. They’re not mutually exclusive.
“And some of the agreements we’ve got with France are bilateral in any event. I think they need to be stronger and better and deeper, particularly in relation to smashing the gangs that are running the vile trade of putting people into boats.”
The ignorance of this man is astounding.
“I genuinely don’t want to get ahead of myself,” he said. “Firstly, we haven’t seen the final outcome in France, we’ve also got a big outcome of our own on Thursday, so we need those two pieces to fall into place and to be clear, I don’t think it affects the overall intention that we have, which is to negotiate a better deal with the EU.”
“I think the deal we’ve got is botched, I think that anyone who does business with the EU feels that it’s botched and that we could do better than that, across not just trade but research and development, and also on the security front.”
While Starmer has ruled out radically reforming Britain’s ties with the EU, he has said a Labour government would “reset” its relationship with the EU, with members of his top team including David Lammy, Jonathan Reynolds and the Scottish Labour leader, Anas Sarwar, saying it would be in the country’s “national interest”.
Starmer said: “I’ve always supported bilaterals as well as EU-wide agreements. They’re not mutually exclusive.
“And some of the agreements we’ve got with France are bilateral in any event. I think they need to be stronger and better and deeper, particularly in relation to smashing the gangs that are running the vile trade of putting people into boats.”
The ignorance of this man is astounding.
No that’s not it. How about all the rights that actual citizenship confers?
I broadly agree with what you're saying as I mentioned previously, but in the context of this debate it is very much a philosophical point. In actual fact the document did and does mean something. Just look at all the issues that Paul, to his credit, keeps flagging.
You mentioned the hassle you’ve had in applying for passports for your kids. Presumably you’ve had other problems too?
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I’m British, kids were born in Sweden, they are naturally Swedish citizens so there would be absolutely zero issues for them to get Swedish passports even if I was still an EU (British) citizen resident in Sweden.
The hassle post Brexit is getting them British passports, something they’ll now likely need in their future and something they wouldn’t have needed pre Brexit.
Citizenship as an EU citizen resident in Sweden or a Swedish citizen is pretty much the same, the general election is pretty much all it boils down to. The only other additional rights over residency is the ability to be a cop or a politician.
That’s what’s so brilliant with Freedom of Movement, that’s the point.
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Just one of many things that Brexit fecked up and for zero gains. I'm very glad my son could get an Irish passport as a British one is useless now, unless you want to live and work in the UK, and Brexit hasn't exactly made that an attractive option.
I still don’t think people like Kinsella who have never lived in another EU country as an EU citizen quite understand just how easy it is, and how you can simply move and fully integrate/participate in another culture/way of life without having to jump through all of the hoops of visa applications, residency applications, citizenship applications etc.
I felt every single bit the fully immersed and integrated Swede long before Brexit forced me to apply for citizenship.
I’d argue it’s the furthest we’ve come in modern civilisation to some kind of true freedom.