I'm 6'1 and weigh 13st. I'm not fat! I've documented my somewhat embarassing radio debut on Share Radio last year. Have turned down desperate 24hr news channels' calls for increasingly low rent 'experts' to fill their slots too.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
I feel we became borderless in so far as, an Australian nurse has to jump through hoops of fire to get to the UK, get an Austrian labourer can literally just walk in no-questions asked (even if criminally convicted!) because we 'are brothers and sisters' with them.
It's not because we are brothers and sisters but because you want to exploit the continental market, you want to make on the back of the people you don't want on your soil. People who by the way can be expelled or rejected at the border if they are a risk to public order, people who can be expelled after three months if they don't find a job that allows them to live decently.
People should always remember that you allowed freedom of movement because you knew that you could milk the continental cow.
When did we sign up to this?
How many come in vs go out via this arrangement - and how do we know not all of these Brits that settle in Spain, France etc would not be happy to do so like I have done? All hearsay.
Amazing!Genuinely not sure what that actually means mate.
My question was when did we agree/decide as a nation that this is what we wanted?
ps. As I said earlier, I don't have any issue with culture sharing and all that good stuff at all whatsoever (and suspect a lot of Brexiteers don't either although I cannot confirm). But just the manner in which it is done, with whom (with no say), etc.
I'm happy I'm willing to 'share culture' on terms I like (and is mutual with the country I am entering, passing their checks).
When the MPs and PMs that you agreed/decided to elect as a nation; negotiated, agreed and signed those treaties.
The analogy for me is joining a club that radically changes the benefits and meaning of membership once you are in knee-deep.
Once again no one forced you to sign the treaties, there has been multiple of them and you just needed to not sign them if you didn't wanted them. That's why your analogy is bad, every changes required your agreement, the club didn't changed anything behind your back, you changed the club with the other members.
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I'm not sure I understand. You have a veto, like every other country, if you didn't like the rules. see @JPRouve post. Says it better
I don't know enough about when the UK got into the EU (or I do, I just don't remember, so I'm not going to argue about that)
I prefer the democracy where I elect fellow countrymen/women to office, and hold them account by doing what is right the country - with the abilty to oust them from office via elections if they don't do a good enough job in the eyes of the electorate.
A more apt analogy would be buying a Honda and later complaining that you thought it was a Ferrari.
The European parliament is democratically elected. And non-elected officials are sent by your nationally elected parliament. Nothing the EU does can happen without the explicit consent of every member states elected officials.
Fair point, I admit. Just want an old fashioned country I suppose that does what it says on the tin.
I'm sure you guys also agree simply veto-ing something that most others want (i.e. gain from) wouldn't have repercussions, hence sometimes having to bite the bullet - not sure why we need to do that as a country tbh.
You had it, but I can understand what you are saying. The world is more complicated these days, and isolationism will actually hurt you.To each his own though.
That train of thought, if it deserves such a respectful title, is almost too perfect to be true.
hmm - I don't fancy it. Rather focus on my own country tbh. Telling that there's an increasing number of Eurosceptic MEPs in Brussels (and growing at every election!). Tells me all is not well.
You elected the PM who negotiates and votes at Brussel, you also elected the MPs who decides which candidates for the commission are suitable. The EU works like all the western democracies.
I do see that argument too.
ps. Am pleasantly surprised we can have a jovial grown-up debate on here about something as contentious as this, so thank you for that!
Almost exclusively the fault of voter apathy. If you want to blame anyone for the shitshow in Europe, blame the voters who select our governments and who vote for MEPs. The EU as an institution has only been a gift to the continent. It gathers the collective resources and has used them to a greater effect than any country can by itself.
Are we playing language games?
Your original post said that in respect of Britain 'the vast majority of the imports and exports go through' the single market. 44% is not the vast majority.
Of course it's a big deal. At the moment we're in the phony war stage, with both sides lobbing rhetoric at each other. But it's too early to be making casualty estimates. The degree of temporary disruption will depend on the final deal, which, despite all the bombast, is still unknowable.
My guess is that Britain will stick to its guns in respect of sovereignty issues - free movement, jurisdiction of European courts, primacy of European law etc. - and will accept exclusion from the single market. A compromise trade deal will emerge which won't be much liked by the City in particular, but which they will learn to live with.
And life will go on. In ten years Britons will wonder why they were ever in the EU, and certainly won't want to go back.
hmm and which laws supercedes which? The EU > Nations - that worries me. And not even going to attempt to get my tiny mind around Law and Order (EU Court of Justice is it) and the inability of nations to manage their own laws (to some degree anyway).
The democracy angle doesn't really work against the EU when it's coming from a country that has such things as the House of Lords and a fecking Monarchy.
Sorry sounds like socialism on a grand-scale to me. I'm a capitalist.
Agreed - but the Queen doesn't influence my life as much as the EU can. The House of Lords just exists for checks and balances (agreed this potentially needs to be looked into).
Gotta run guys, but that was fun. I do see the other point of view! Just disagree though....marginally.
No worries. Brexit doesn't really affect me, (other than when the global economy will tankI do see that argument too.
ps. Am pleasantly surprised we can have a jovial grown-up debate on here about something as contentious as this, so thank you for that!
) so I'm pretty calm about it. Some of the other folks here will probably be hit by it and are more aggressive. No point getting mad on a forum anyway, unless United lose a game!Capitalism doesn't work without safeguards. As you'll well know, one of the flaws of unfettered capitalism is the potential for monopolies, and these don't just occur in businesses, if a relatively small state is trying to negotiate a free trade deal with an entire continent it'll get completely dominated. That's the reason why more and more nations are joining trading blocks, rather than going it alone. It's like deciding between owning a corner shop or having a directors seat at Tesco.
Dont know whether to laugh or cry..
Or choosing an alternative to being ignored by the conglomerate and monopoly you're a member of, and deciding actually your national interests may be a priority.
The EU doesn't supercedes nations.
Look it's very simple and it comes from Kelsen who was there way before the EU.
Grundnorm>Constitution>Treaties>Organic Laws>Ordinary Laws>Precedents.
This pyramid is followed almost everywhere on the globe, so when your politicians decide to sign a treaty or an organic law, they can't complain about anything because they know that these treaties are legally above the common laws, they know exactly what they are doing and they know that the vast majority of people have absolutely no understanding of the legal system they are living in, people are shafted by their own countrymen who pretend to be victim of their own actions.
Get you now you're all posh. I remember when you didn't care whose slots you filled.
You only see negative points paul, if you won the lottery youd be miserable
Well there's the first error, electing pms to run the country.
Maybe uk should elect cameron, he knows what the people want
Jesting, this thread is a good laugh
Really? too much doom mongering
They were happier than the capitalists next door
Not doom mongering, just telling as I see it, if I'm wrong I'll be pleased for the UK. Have to live in the real world not fantasy island.
The capitalists next door reminded me of Boris & May