Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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JPRouve said:
Your european partners weren't supposed to give you military details about a country they weren't at war with, that would be a daft thing to do particularly when that country is a client. And who talked about a "special relationship" in the late 70s-early 80s?
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All of which explains why Thatcher was considering leaving the EU. She no doubt considered that the trade element might have worked, but with every increasing integration on the horizon, then from her point of view, the 'politics' wouldn't. Also there is no doubting this aspect spilled over into the Brexit vote as well. Historically the UK may, (or may not) have a 'special relationship' with the US, but it has never even imagined that kind of relationship with the EU as such. The UK didn't join the Euro-zone, it negotiated various opt outs and demanded rebates, and was generally seen as being the 'awkward squad' by many in the EU.

Ironically had Thatcher followed her impulse and gone for a referendum on leaving the EU, with her recommending that based on either Maastricht and/or Lisbon Treaties we should leave, then she would probably have lost it; because the general level of interest in leaving in the UK at that time was not much above 20-30%, much the same as when the original vote was taken in the mid seventies. Two of the foremost Europhiles in the cabinet, Heseltine and Clarke won their battle (as they saw it to stay in the EU) by managing to oust Thatcher, hence preventing a referendum that finally came some twenty years or so later. Unfortunately the remainers thought they were facing the same situation... and well, the rest is history!
 
Paul the Wolf said:
You don't believe in the huge potential?
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I’ve never fully understood the left wing argument for Brexit, other than the desire for massive industrial subsidies, but then that would inevitably attract tariffs. I can just about understand the Brexit argument from a right wing perspective, but I think the crusty old 1970s leftists are just stuck in the past.
 
Maticmaker said:
All of which explains why Thatcher was considering leaving the EU. She no doubt considered that the trade element might have worked, but with every increasing integration on the horizon, then from her point of view, the 'politics' wouldn't. Also there is no doubting this aspect spilled over into the Brexit vote as well. Historically the UK may, (or may not) have a 'special relationship' with the US, but it has never even imagined that kind of relationship with the EU as such. The UK didn't join the Euro-zone, it negotiated various opt outs and demanded rebates, and was generally seen as being the 'awkward squad' by many in the EU.

Ironically had Thatcher followed her impulse and gone for a referendum on leaving the EU, with her recommending that based on either Maastricht and/or Lisbon Treaties we should leave, then she would probably have lost it; because the general level of interest in leaving in the UK at that time was not much above 20-30%, much the same as when the original vote was taken in the mid seventies. Two of the foremost Europhiles in the cabinet, Heseltine and Clarke won their battle (as they saw it to stay in the EU) by managing to oust Thatcher, hence preventing a referendum that finally came some twenty years or so later. Unfortunately the remainers thought they were facing the same situation... and well, the rest is history!
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I'll be honest I don't have a clue about what you are talking about. In the late 70s-early 80s, the time where France sold exocets to Argentina, the EU wasn't a thing and the UK were at the heart of the creation of the Single European Act which was signed in 1986. You seem to have your own version of history.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
I’ve never fully understood the left wing argument for Brexit, other than the desire for massive industrial subsidies, but then that would inevitably attract tariffs. I can just about understand the Brexit argument from a right wing perspective, but I think the crusty old 1970s leftists are just stuck in the past.
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They certainly are. And in many respects.
 
JPRouve said:
France is one of the largest arms dealer on the planet and Argentina weren't an enemy of France, they were selling weapons including Super Etendard and exocets to Argentina before the war.
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They are and they manufacture some excellent products, especially the Dassault Rafale. And they did that on their own, unlike the Eurofighter Typhoon which is a competitor.
Interestingly, when David Cameron was PM (boo), he was extremely keen on a defence partnership with France. And for good reasons. Similar defence capabilities, geography and similar defence policies. Nothing to do with brexit. More to do with collaboration within NATO. But that seems to have cooled which is a shame.
 
Buster15 said:
They are and they manufacture some excellent products, especially the Dassault Rafale. And they did that on their own, unlike the Eurofighter Typhoon which is a competitor.
Interestingly, when David Cameron was PM (boo), he was extremely keen on a defence partnership with France. And for good reasons. Similar defence capabilities, geography and similar defence policies. Nothing to do with brexit. More to do with collaboration within NATO. But that seems to have cooled which is a shame.
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I wanted to talk about it a few weeks ago because the british press mentioned several times that the UK were waiting for the US to approve the financing of new generation SLBMs and from a french standpoint it's a weird idea particularly when this year France tested its own new missiles without having to wait for anyone else to approve it and started the developments of their successors.
At the time my thinking was why the UK can't do the same thing, why do they want to rely that much on the US and wouldn't it be a better idea to partner with France, now the later is complicated because France is notoriously difficult as a partner when it comes to engineering with a "my way or the highway" type of mentality so the UK aren't the problem in a potential partnership.
 
JPRouve said:
I'll be honest I don't have a clue about what you are talking about. In the late 70s-early 80s, the time where France sold exocets to Argentina, the EU wasn't a thing and the UK were at the heart of the creation of the Single European Act which was signed in 1986. You seem to have your own version of history.
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Ever since the start of the Battle of Trafalgar, Thatcher was considering leaving the EU since France was an untrustworthy partner!
 
JPRouve said:
I wanted to talk about it a few weeks ago because the british press mentioned several times that the UK were waiting for the US to approve the financing of new generation SLBMs and from a french standpoint it's a weird idea particularly when this year France tested its own new missiles without having to wait for anyone else to approve it and started the developments of their successors.
At the time my thinking was why the UK can't do the same thing, why do they want to rely that much on the US and wouldn't it be a better idea to partner with France, now the later is complicated because France is notoriously difficult as a partner when it comes to engineering with a "my way or the highway" type of mentality so the UK aren't the problem in a potential partnership.
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And that is what I respect about the French. When they decide to do something, they go for it whatever the difficulty.
There was much discussion regarding the 2 new UK Aircraft Carriers. The talk was about interoperability with France.
But. The UK changed its mind and went for the Lockheed Martin F35B which has short/vertical take off. The Navy Rafale uses catapult take off.
I was fortunate enough to have worked on the Olympus 593 engines for Concorde with engineers from SNECMA. That aircraft was outstandingly brilliant and an incredible technical achievement between Britain and France. And they were built in my home city of Bristol as well of course as Toulouse which had the pleasure of visiting.
As previously mentioned, I have worked very closely with aerospace engineers from Germany, Italy and Spain as well as France. So I appreciate what Europe at its best can achieve.
 
Buster15 said:
And that is what I respect about the French. When they decide to do something, they go for it whatever the difficulty.
There was much discussion regarding the 2 new UK Aircraft Carriers. The talk was about interoperability with France.
But. The UK changed its mind and went for the Lockheed Martin F35B which has short/vertical take off. The Navy Rafale uses catapult take off.
I was fortunate enough to have worked on the Olympus 593 engines for Concorde with engineers from SNECMA. That aircraft was outstandingly brilliant and an incredible technical achievement between Britain and France. And they were built in my home city of Bristol as well of course as Toulouse which had the pleasure of visiting.
As previously mentioned, I have worked very closely with aerospace engineers from Germany, Italy and Spain as well as France. So I appreciate what Europe at its best can achieve.
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The Concorde is truly a marvelous achievement of cooperation which sadly I can't see being repeated in such a scale anytime soon. But its awesome that you have taken part in it!
 
The Firestarter said:
The Concorde is truly a marvelous achievement of cooperation which sadly I can't see being repeated in such a scale anytime soon. But its awesome that you have taken part in it!
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Thank you.
The most incredible thing was that it had never been done before, or after but that it was achieved with almost no computers. All drawn by hand with pencils and slide rules by some seriously clever people.
 
JPRouve said:
I'll be honest I don't have a clue about what you are talking about. In the late 70s-early 80s, the time where France sold exocets to Argentina, the EU wasn't a thing and the UK were at the heart of the creation of the Single European Act which was signed in 1986. You seem to have your own version of history.
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Yes I have gathered that!
 
Farewell UK, hope you come back soon. Without tories though

I am sure you will be better off than what remainers say and worse off than what brexiteers say.
 
God another reason why tonight sucks, well done UK, you’ve solved the problem the EU was creating which was.. errm.. but well at least we can now errrm.
 
Taste that sovereignty!!!
 
Happy Independence Day neighbours!
 
I've absolutely no sympathy for anyone who voted leave and then wants to create Little England abroad. They'll need to get used to Spanish Sky, which will be very different. We spend a lot of time watching American crime dramas, as they're one of the things that Sky Italia shows.

Here's another example of a new "Brexit benefit" - I don't know how many of these people voted for leave, but Kent was about 60% in favour. Quite honestly, it would have been better for these people to have their homes put under a compulsory purchase order, as they'll never sell them now.
It was all quiet on the Dover front in the hours after the UK left the EU, as lorries continued to avoid the port.

But just minutes away, beyond the famous white cliffs, the sense of fury over Brexit was palpable as local residents came to terms with a government letter they received on New Year’s Eve telling them that from summer, their rural idyll of farmland and ancient Roman ways would be transformed into a customs clearance lorry park for 1,200 trucks.

The site is in addition to the the Ashford lorry park 22 miles away that barricades fields behind 4-metre fences.

Locals say they feel “betrayed” and “trapped” by the “lies” of the government over Brexit. Just as they were looking forward to a new year, the letter from the transport minister Rachel Maclean arrived advising them that the white cliffs site had been purchased and would be used as an “Inland Border Facility” from July.
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Full schadenfreude here: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/01/residents-furious-brexit-lorry-park-kent-village
 
tombombadil said:
This is brilliant. She is on point on this one. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Theresa May's deal was a treaty that kept us too closely aligned to the EU, which meant it would be a brexit in name only. Boris's treaty removes some of that alignment but with some compromising.
Boris did actually vote for Theresa May's deal with other hardline brexiteers like Rees Mogg, when it looked as though things were heading in the direction of having to either accept this deal, remain, or hold a second referendum.
Boris's landslide election victory gave him more weight to negotiate harder with the EU.

May a good leader?
 
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