Yes agreed but any dispute and its mechanism , like the WTO would seem weak but in practice...
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Yes agreed but any dispute and its mechanism , like the WTO would seem weak but in practice...
I think this agrees with Boris' remarks on a regulatory war over the EU.
Suspect this is a 'deal' to allow both sides to step back and get lost in the detail.
The time for anyone to work out what any of it really means will be when there is a difference to existing provisions/regulations that one or other side wants to make, then if there are any balloons to go up this is when the 'hot air' will surface. Otherwise it will be back to fighting Covid.
The time for anyone to work out what any of it really means will be when there is a difference to existing provisions/regulations that one or other side wants to make, then if there are any balloons to go up this is when the 'hot air' will surface. Otherwise it will be back to fighting Covid.
Looks like the ERG are backing the deal...
FT: Hardline Tory Brexiters signal support for EU trade deal
FT: Hardline Tory Brexiters signal support for EU trade deal
Just got round to reading details of the deal with respect to NI.
The DUP must feel like fools.
The DUP must feel like fools.
Question...I’ve bought some consumer goods from a company based in Belgium. He ships via UPS and I believe nobody that’s ever ordered from him in any quantity has paid any sort of fee on the back end.
Does this change now? I’ve ordered £2.5k of stuff that only works out a good deal if that stays the total I’ll pay, ordered last month, delivery date 21st Jan. I’m used to paying fees as I regularly order from Japan and the US, will I get fees this time does anyone know?
Does this change now? I’ve ordered £2.5k of stuff that only works out a good deal if that stays the total I’ll pay, ordered last month, delivery date 21st Jan. I’m used to paying fees as I regularly order from Japan and the US, will I get fees this time does anyone know?
Call me bitter but seeing just one instance a day of a Brexiter getting their comeuppance almost makes it palatable.
The more misery Brexiteers go through the better.
He voted for it despite all the warnings. Suck it up.
Insofar as anyone has to go through that experience (and you'd hope it's as few people as possible), it's objectively better that it be someone wanted Brexit than someone who didn't. Similarly, if Brexit turns out to be the rampaging success its promoters claimed it would be then it's entirely fair for them to hope that those who believed in it and voted to bring it about will benefit the most.
After all, it's good for democracy for people to see the direct consequences of their votes.
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He thought there'd be a 'global market'. Did he really think Peru and Benin would replace the EU an hour away from his doorstep as his biggest customers. Stupid cnut, I struggle to take any satisfaction from it, it's just exasperation.
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These people don't understand one of the most important factors in trade is geography.
"Global market"...you feel these people still live under an imperialist rock.
"Global market"...you feel these people still live under an imperialist rock.
To be honest I don't really get the schadenfreude... as remain we failed to get our message over to enough people like him and to be honest I'd rather not point a finger and say I told you so but actually engage with them and get them to see the sense in rejoining sooner rather than later
I agree to an extent. There was a certain complacency maybe in the remain camp in the UK and perhaps has been for decades.
There is also an element imo of British exceptionalism and a historial aversion to a more unified Europe.
But also, if you're going to vote for something monumental, especially as someone who at least in this interview seems to have referenced an economic reason for voting out (global market), you better do your research and make sure you understand what you're voting for.
Economic arguments were made and often dismissed as project fear.
Lets not go there either, the message was sent and heard but ignored, one of the biggest issue in all of that has been people's attitude when others tried to explain to them what leaving the EU meant. Very early people were told that it would mean a border and a lot of paperwork since that's what the EUCU is meant to reduce, the turkish and norwegian borders were used as examples but people simply chose to ignore it and while the remain campaign wasn't good from a marketing standpoint, it still explained the customs issues appropriately.
Totally agreed. Especially if the person mentions economic reasons.
I think a lot of people voted for brexit for 'cultural' reasons. Sovereignty, fish, immigration, regulations, Brussels, unaccountable blah blah, all that jazz. I disagree but at least understand why they may not care about economic arguments. That wasn't the crux for them.
If you're voting for economic reasons.... Then you were warned. You were told so many times. And either chose to ignore it or decided it was crap and project fear.
He is an idiot at best.
People believe what the papers they read tell them. Even more so people in his generation.
It is very dangerous when those papers are owned by foreign based billionaires with private interests contrary to that of the UK population. That is what the papers really mean by sovereignty, freedom for foreign based billionaires to remove regulation.
This is engaging with those people though. It is highlighting that their vote had direct negative consequences for them, which may perhaps prompt them to wonder why the sources of information they decided to trust on the issue failed to make clear the impact it would almost immediately have on their livelihood. And then spreading that message so others in similar situations might see it and wonder the same. There are few methods of engagement more effective than showing people the first-hand consequences of their actions.
Plus a lot of the people who supported Brexit have spent the last several years objecting to the portrayal of them as being motivated by either racism or stupidity, instead claiming it was a rational and fully-informed choice that carried potential economic benefits. In which case we should spare them them any condescending faux-sympathy and treat them as what they are, adults with full agency who made a bad decision on who/what to vote for because they made a bad decision on who to trust. Decisions that will unfortunately impact other people too.
You'd really wonder how someone who owns a successful business that exports all of its product to the EU could decide that voting for Brexit was a good idea. What a fecking tit.
The trick is that he was "exporting" in the same custom area. He has done it for so long that he probably convinced himself that it was how exports worked.
It's been an eye-opener just how entrenched British exceptionalism is. We take Johnson going on about 'world-beating' apps, 'leading the Covid recovery' or whatever with a massive dose of salt, but don't realise how much of the country actually laps it up.
The right wing press are still banging the drum for Brexit, with minimal critical analysis. When the lies about the economics are laid bare, we've already been prepped for the sovereignty argument.
TREVOR KAVANAGH Finally, we’re out & Brexit’s done – fasten your seat belts as the UK economy goes gangbusters
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13570241/brexit-deal-uk-economy-gangbusters/
Brexit deal could boost economy by 5pc
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/12/24/signing-dotted-line-could-give-uk-5pc-boost/
Why can't the economic doom-mongers admit they got it wrong on Brexit?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/28/cant-economic-doom-mongers-admit-got-wrong-brexit/
Great Britain never was – and never will be – a European country
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.te...ritain-never-never-will-european-country/amp/
I think that people regarded a lot of the institutions and agreements we had with the EU were normal and that these would remain even outside of the EU.
People were always told what they couldn't do because of the EU rather than what they could which became part of the anti-EU psyche.
So no free trade for financial services, no free movement of people, and goods require additional customs checks. This is a no deal wrapped up in some sort of deal that keeps Britain aligned to EU standards. Dont know how any politician could vote to ratify this, regardless if they're brexiteers or remainers.
What's the alternative? If they don't vote for it the outcome will be demonstrably worse for the UK. It's too late to object to the realities of a deal at this point, the time to do that was when people were claiming there was a better deal available than membership.
It's a basic FTA and shouldn't be confused with no deal.
You're either in or out. Being a member was of course the best option, Brexit should never have seen the light of day but this deal is not a deal. Not ratifying it is a better outcome than ratifying it. In all honesty I think Westminster should be looking to at least a 6 month extension to the transition period so that the deal can be analysed properly.
This deal is a bullet and the time allowed between presenting the deal to politicians and ratification is the gun.
It is a deal, just a shit, narrow one. Would you really rather we had no deal with the added negatives around tariffs etc?
How so?
We are not rejoining anytime soon. Remain was up against two and a half decades of propaganda. I don't see how well the message would have needed to be to be effective against what had been an onslaught.
Tragic, indeed.
You're nearly five years from when this started and don't see many signs of anyone who really understood what they voted for and the Remain camp could have explained it for another 20 years and it still would not have registered,
The deal may slightly soften the blow but the real blow was when it was decided that the UK would leave the Customs Union and that was decided last January, not now. I have the impression that this is still not understood by many.
The end of free movement of people, goods and capital and the introduction of customs checks were ratified nearly a year ago. That was the Withdrawal Agreement.
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Perhaps he thought all his customers would leave the EU as well?
So he was even more stupid than was first thought?