Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Buster15 said:
I heard today on the BBC that the only thing that has not been agreed is the fishing situation.
If that is correct, there must be progress being made.
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Seems some things are slightly closer on a mechanism if standards diverge but have worsened regarding fisheries.
Still the three topics to agree on, level playing field, fishing and governance. One goes up , one goes down.

Delaying tactics until Boris's bosses give the go ahead to pull the plug?
 
I still think there's an almighty fudge incoming where both sides claim success and the deal is done.
 
Penna said:
If you have a significant amount of money, you can do better by using a currency broker. We used one when we bought our house here, as we were cash buyers and Italy requires a bank cheque from an Italian bank when you buy property.

The broker held our funds for a while and then exchanged them to euros when the rate was decent - the euro was worth about 78p at the time.
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Cheimoon said:
The exchange rate depends on what happens to the markets next of course, but it's currently looking likely that the worth of your pounds savings in euros will go down, yeah. But maybe things will recover quickly in the spring after an initial dip. Plus there's the uncertainty due to the pandemic; who knows what that will do.

Apart from that though, it also depends on where you're living now and where you're moving. Here in Canada, my Ottawa house is worth little in the Vancouver housing market but would buy me an estate on Cape Breton Island, all in the same Canadian dollars. So it's hard to say really.
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Thank you both for responses. @Penna I'll look into a currency broker. The money isn't a great amount but I don't want half to be wiped out by a weak pound, especially when starting a new life in a new country.

You are correct @Cheimoon about it being difficult to predict what may happen. I reckon the pound will decline quite a bit and perhaps recover slightly, although to what extent is hard to guess, as you state. I do plan on moving to the country in mind when I can land a job there and using the savings to rent an apartment while saving up what I can from my job income.

It does sting losing the right to travel and work in 20 plus countries, some of which are home to beautiful cities with a rich history.
 
TwoSheds said:
Actually there's vast amounts of EU regulations that are written almost exactly as proposed by UK regulatory bodies/ government. Something like 98% of regulations proposed by the UK have been adopted more or less unamended since we joined the EEA or whatever it was called. Now we will get 100% of nothing, yay. Or we'll make up our own rules and the trade deal goes out the window, double yay.

We also used to benefit disproportionately from EU science funding before Brexit too, not any more, we've been awarded much less than we put in since 2016 because nobody knows if the project would even have got finished since nobody knew when we were "leaving" or what "leaving" means.

Other examples would be e.g. the European Medicines Agency which used to be headquartered in London and has now I think moved to Amsterdam.

There are many more, these are just what spring to mind.
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But it doesn’t beat myths, misdirections and outright lies printed on the sides of big red busses
 
Paul the Wolf said:
The funny part is that we're all trying to second guess what's going through Boris's mind and whether he's going to agree a deal. It's doubtful that Boris knows what's going through Boris's mind.
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Apparently his dumb act isn't genuine, he just pretends to be an idiot. He knows what he's doing.

Or maybe that's what he wants people to think and a spade really is a spade.
 
GenZRed said:
Thank you both for responses. @Penna I'll look into a currency broker. The money isn't a great amount but I don't want half to be wiped out by a weak pound, especially when starting a new life in a new country.

You are correct @Cheimoon about it being difficult to predict what may happen. I reckon the pound will decline quite a bit and perhaps recover slightly, although to what extent is hard to guess, as you state. I do plan on moving to the country in mind when I can land a job there and using the savings to rent an apartment while saving up what I can from my job income.

It does sting losing the right to travel and work in 20 plus countries, some of which are home to beautiful cities with a rich history.
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Such a shame that the young folk coming through schools and colleges now and in future won’t have the same freedoms we all had to move around and experience different cultures
 
horsechoker said:
Apparently his dumb act isn't genuine, he just pretends to be an idiot. He knows what he's doing.

Or maybe that's what he wants people to think and a spade really is a spade.
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He’s a clown, which he wants people to believe but really he’s not a clown which is a plan for people to believe but he’s bluffing because really he is a clown. 4d chess
 
golden_blunder said:
He’s a clown, which he wants people to believe but really he’s not a clown which is a plan for people to believe but he’s bluffing because really he is a clown. 4d chess
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He's the epitome of “If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.”
 
Q: I bring trucks into the UK bringing in goods from Europe. Brexit is going to be hugely disruptive.

Starmer says he hopes next year will not be as disruptive as the caller fears. That is why a deal is so important, he says. He says he understands how important it is for goods to arrive in the country on time. Just-in-time manufacturing processes rely on this, he says.

Just saw the above about Starmer's radio phone-in this morning.
No wonder Starmer was such a prat with his unicorn policy. He is clueless.
 
TwoSheds said:
Actually there's vast amounts of EU regulations that are written almost exactly as proposed by UK regulatory bodies/ government.
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Sorry in my response I believed you were referring to the UK's supposed loss of power and influence globally, because we had left the EU.

Clearly we will have less influence (probably none at all) inside a club we've just left; unless that is the EU gives us a contract to write their rules for them. Also don't all EU regulations have to be passed through UK law anyway to ensure they can operate within our own domestic system?

TwoSheds said:
Something like 98% of regulations proposed by the UK have been adopted more or less unamended since we joined the EEA or whatever it was called.
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What is that 98% expressed as a proportion of the overall total regulations adopted in the EEA/EU since we joined, any ideas?

TwoSheds said:
We also used to benefit disproportionately from EU science funding before Brexit
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Wasn't that for scientific research , not funding for direct /applied science applications?
 
GenZRed said:
Thank you both for responses. @Penna I'll look into a currency broker. The money isn't a great amount but I don't want half to be wiped out by a weak pound, especially when starting a new life in a new country.

You are correct @Cheimoon about it being difficult to predict what may happen. I reckon the pound will decline quite a bit and perhaps recover slightly, although to what extent is hard to guess, as you state. I do plan on moving to the country in mind when I can land a job there and using the savings to rent an apartment while saving up what I can from my job income.

It does sting losing the right to travel and work in 20 plus countries, some of which are home to beautiful cities with a rich history.
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Absolutely. I grew up in the Netherlands and moved around a fair bit in Europe in my 20s. (Mostly as a student, so not the same situation; although I also did start from scratch in Canada.) It's unbelievable that this is happening and in the current day and age. Anyway, that discussion's been had plenty. Good luck with your eventual move and new life!
 
Maticmaker said:
Sorry in my response I believed you were referring to the UK's supposed loss of power and influence globally, because we had left the EU.

Clearly we will have less influence (probably none at all) inside a club we've just left; unless that is the EU gives us a contract to write their rules for them. Also don't all EU regulations have to be passed through UK law anyway to ensure they can operate within our own domestic system?


What is that 98% expressed as a proportion of the overall total regulations adopted in the EEA/EU since we joined, any ideas?


Wasn't that for scientific research , not funding for direct /applied science applications?
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I don't care enough to find out the answers to those questions sorry. Suffice to say we did punch above our weight ref decision making in a lot of things in the EU and what we paid in monetarily was cheap at the price. Cost of Brexit is c.£200bn so far by contrast. Benefits - minor? None?
 
TwoSheds said:
Actually there's vast amounts of EU regulations that are written almost exactly as proposed by UK regulatory bodies/ government. Something like 98% of regulations proposed by the UK have been adopted more or less unamended since we joined the EEA or whatever it was called. Now we will get 100% of nothing, yay. Or we'll make up our own rules and the trade deal goes out the window, double yay.

We also used to benefit disproportionately from EU science funding before Brexit too, not any more, we've been awarded much less than we put in since 2016 because nobody knows if the project would even have got finished since nobody knew when we were "leaving" or what "leaving" means.

Other examples would be e.g. the European Medicines Agency which used to be headquartered in London and has now I think moved to Amsterdam.

There are many more, these are just what spring to mind.
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Maybe I'm misreading you but I believe that you made a small mistake. The UK have voted in favor of 95% of EU laws between 1999 and 2016, abstained 3% of the time and opposed to them 2% of the time. Meaning that the UK were in favor or not opposed to EU laws 98% of the time.
 
TwoSheds said:
Actually there's vast amounts of EU regulations that are written almost exactly as proposed by UK regulatory bodies/ government. Something like 98% of regulations proposed by the UK have been adopted more or less unamended since we joined the EEA or whatever it was called. Now we will get 100% of nothing, yay. Or we'll make up our own rules and the trade deal goes out the window, double yay.

We also used to benefit disproportionately from EU science funding before Brexit too, not any more, we've been awarded much less than we put in since 2016 because nobody knows if the project would even have got finished since nobody knew when we were "leaving" or what "leaving" means.

Other examples would be e.g. the European Medicines Agency which used to be headquartered in London and has now I think moved to Amsterdam.

There are many more, these are just what spring to mind.
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Correct. Although anyone would have expected EU agencies and services to move away in case of a Brexit; that speaks for itself. The science bit, however, is another one of those under-the-radar things that are not considered enough. UK scientists have been sounding the alarm about Brexit ever since the referendum was announced. There will be less money to go around for them, as well as downstream consequences when scientific productivity is lowered and hence also its economic impacts. Also, that plus the whole situation might make the UK less attractive for scientists and students looking to work or study abroad.

I'll never get why anyone would think that sovereignty is worth everything else.
 
Cheimoon said:
I'll never get why anyone would think that sovereignty is worth everything else.
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In my opinion, people with very little who don't have much good going on cling to national identity and pride as a source of something positive. For them, being British, a major player on the world stage and supposedly not under the boot of Brussels will make their lives better.

Maybe that's an oversimplification but it's what they've been fed.
 
horsechoker said:
In my opinion, people with very little who don't have much good going on cling to national identity and pride as a source of something positive. For them, being British, a major player on the world stage and supposedly not under the boot of Brussels will make their lives better.

Maybe that's an oversimplification but it's what they've been fed.
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Whatever happens, rather poor & free than rich & suppressed. And then apply that to a UK without or within the EU. Yeah, propaganda is a nasty thing.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
The funny part is that we're all trying to second guess what's going through Boris's mind and whether he's going to agree a deal. It's doubtful that Boris knows what's going through Boris's mind.
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Mainly rude limericks and thoughts of shagging the blond in the parliamentary cafeteria I'd wager.
 
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TwoSheds said:
I don't care enough to find out the answers to those questions sorry. Suffice to say we did punch above our weight ref decision making in a lot of things in the EU and what we paid in monetarily was cheap at the price. Cost of Brexit is c.£200bn so far by contrast. Benefits - minor? None?
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Of course you don't!
 
As someone working for a UK import/distributer with customers in various EU countries, all I can say is that this is going to be a shitshow, a massive, massive shitshow!
 
Cheimoon said:
Correct. Although anyone would have expected EU agencies and services to move away in case of a Brexit; that speaks for itself. The science bit, however, is another one of those under-the-radar things that are not considered enough. UK scientists have been sounding the alarm about Brexit ever since the referendum was announced. There will be less money to go around for them, as well as downstream consequences when scientific productivity is lowered and hence also its economic impacts. Also, that plus the whole situation might make the UK less attractive for scientists and students looking to work or study abroad.

I'll never get why anyone would think that sovereignty is worth everything else.
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Your a step ahead of me at least. I'll never get why anyone would think leaving the EU gains them sovereignty.
 
horsechoker said:
In my opinion, people with very little who don't have much good going on cling to national identity and pride as a source of something positive. For them, being British, a major player on the world stage and supposedly not under the boot of Brussels will make their lives better.

Maybe that's an oversimplification but it's what they've been fed.
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Do not think that is necessarily true, but yes, indeed, there are people in every nation who do have a higher sense of being part of a collective.
Very much the same mental mechanism that makes us football fans tick in a certain way.
 
Simbo said:
Your a step ahead of me at least. I'll never get why anyone would think leaving the EU gains them sovereignty.
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I think that at some point people mixed sovereignty and independence. Because when people talk about sovereignty they seem to often talk about the ability to do things on your own, your own way. Ironically in a subject that has been recently the actuality, the UK aren't independent when it comes military supplies in particular regarding nuclear warheads, they rely on the US for that while France for example are independent. The irony being that in the media one of the argument in favor of brexit was military independence and fear of a EU army.
 
DavidDeSchmikes said:
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This reminds me very much of '1984'.
Cometh 2021 and we will hear "The EU did want a trade deal, but we declined."
Later in 2021, "There never have been any trade deal discussions, it was all about the withdrawal agreement."
2022, "We were never part of the EU, because we did not had the Euro."
2023, "The EU is and always has been an enemy of the British people."
2024, "We are here where we we are because we won the fight against the EU..... that is what ultimately matter, and nothing else."
 
Cheimoon said:
Whatever happens, rather poor & free than rich & suppressed. And then apply that to a UK without or within the EU. Yeah, propaganda is a nasty thing.
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Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew,
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four—
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.
 
Penna said:
Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew,
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four—
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.
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Ha, wonderful! I did not know that poem, but I looked it up now. (Kipling - here is a link for other barbarians like me.)

I had myself been thinking of Bad Religion's Let Them Eat War (not quite on the same level, I know):

"Let them eat war, let them eat war
That's how to ration the poor
Let them eat war, let them eat war
There's an urgent need to feed declining pride"

(full lyrics)
 
So what kinda mitigation roughly will a deal have? In comparison to no deal?
 
Cheimoon said:
Ha, wonderful! I did not know that poem, but I looked it up now. (Kipling - here is a link for other barbarians like me.)

I had myself been thinking of Bad Religion's Let Them Eat War (not quite on the same level, I know):

"Let them eat war, let them eat war
That's how to ration the poor
Let them eat war, let them eat war
There's an urgent need to feed declining pride"

(full lyrics)
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Kipling really was a man of his time and so some of his poetry is scandalous by today's standards. However, that particular one probably stands the test of time, even though kids probably don't use copy books these days (and especially ones with wholesome maxims at the top of the pages).
 
Penna said:
Kipling really was a man of his time and so some of his poetry is scandalous by today's standards. However, that particular one probably stands the test of time, even though kids probably don't use copy books these days (and especially ones with wholesome maxims at the top of the pages).
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I have not actually read any Kipling yet, but yeah, somehow to read with his time's standards in mind.

Ah, books - at least so far my kids don't need to have their own phones and tablets yet, so it's still books all over the place. :) (But no maxims, no...)
 
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