I agree with you. It's about "how will this benefit me and my cronies", not "how will this benefit the people I'm suppose to serve as a public servant."
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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They have a few more but they are so small and in the grander scheme of things pretty insignificant and for the most part those they do have actually benefit the partner country more than the UK.
What the UK is doing and will do for many years to come will be to try to replicate the deals they already had by being a member of the EU.
They already had a similar deal like this one by being a member of the EU but that was with the whole East African region.
The intention of Brexit was to eliminate the danger to the Tory Party losing elections and knowing that what appealed to a large proportion of the British electorate was to appeal to them with xenophobia, national pride, not being told what to do by other countries, not giving money to the EU, not having laws made by the EU and so on and knowing at least one of those things would appeal then using social media and the majority right-wing press in the UK. They never went into details though.
Problem was once the lies started they had to keep lying to cover the previous lie and they didn't really expect that Brexit would win; just a narrow defeat would have been the perfect result.
There was no plan if Brexit won. There still is no plan which leads us to where we are now.
People are now desperate for any type of deal with the EU or hoping that the USA will come up with a favourable trade deal.
Even if that happened it will still be a disaster.
Trade deals will help/soften the blow a little but not save the UK from the problem of leaving the Customs union and the divergence of standards, rules and other European organisations and thousands of other problems that will become apparent in the not too distant future.
So in the short term we'll get the occasional tiny deal as the UK goes through the list of the deals they tore up by leaving the EU which they now try to replicate
This story has many years to roll. People who voted Brexit may gradually as the years go by realise they made a monumental error, but maybe not.
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How much different would the current potential framework in the economic agreement that might be forthcoming be vs. how the UK & the EU existed immediately before the vote? Is it substantially worse for the UK, marginally worse, better at all?
Both the UK and the EU will be losers, in my own conservative estimate the UK about ten times more than the EU overall , some Eu countries will not be affected at all while some of the closer ones will be more affected like, Ireland (the most) ,France, Germany, Netherlands. However, the barriers and obstacles put up by the UK leaving the EU affect the UK's relationship with 27 other countries plus all the countries the EU have relationships with.
Whereas each EU country's relationship is only affected with their relationship with one country, the UK.
There are so many problems but the immediate significant problem will be the different customs arrangements. For example, a company in the UK sell something to a company in Denmark. They may put it on a truck, deliver it to Denmark with an invoice and a packing list.
From 1st January the documentation required will be significantly higher, the bureaucracy will increase, the goods may be subject to tariffs, phytosanitary inspection, forms to confirm the goods comply to EU standards, the goods themselves would have to be certified by the EU, the tariffs and taxes will have to be registered and paid, the truck may be delayed significantly by customs inspections.
Costs will increase, bureaucracy will increase, there will be inevitable delays.
Remember I am only touching very lightly in the significance of what will change.
There is just so much.
Brexit may have worked if the UK was a tiny self-sufficient island with no contact with the outside world.
Personally I cannot see any benefit whatsoever, only downsides and those who voted Brexit cannot seem to show a benefit either beyond ridiculous clichés they've been brainwashed into repeating parrot fashion by the right-wing media.
Shocking how racism is going to trump common sense, the scenario you have laid out seems to have been a very possible one from the beginning of this morass.
We don't know what the deal is or even if there really is one yet. It won't stop people making a case as to how bad it is for the UK though and I accept they might very well be correct in the end.
It is certainly the case that the UK as a member paid more for membership than almost anyone else. Ran a net trade deficit larger within it than any other member. To be part of an origination which bears little resemblance to the one it joined and which continues to increase it demands while becoming less popular with most of the UK population and indeed most other member countries populations.
Its easier to think ill of people who don't like it than it is to ask what is it good/poor at.
If it is trade then it doesn't seem to be doing very much for the UK and has a falling share of world trade markets.
If it is international influence/ power, well look at the mess around Cyprus and Turkey the response to the Belarus crisis.
If it is security/defence, it seems reluctant to spend what would be needed to do so without NATO.
Most of its money historically has been spent on subsidizing farming and yet its farms seem less efficient than in the US for example.
It makes it easier to travel around Europe which is great but not really environmentally sustainable and you have to have the money to exercise that freedom.
It also demands a sacrifice in sovereignty the US would never grant to a multi national body.
None of which means the UK will be immediately better for leaving as that seems like a pipe dream.
Thanks for this perspective as well.
It was very clear what would happen but most people are not concerned with details and tend to hear or read what they want to hear or read.
People were warned but they would not listen.
Even now they won't listen. It is only when reality hits them next year will they realise the problems, but they won't admit they made a mistake. Very sad really but it's going to get very messy.
There’s a very small part of me that is fascinated by how bad it could actually get. The larger part me feels total pity for y’all.
As I'm usually a very optimistic person and I'm very pessimistic about this, it could get very bad.
Fortunately I moved from the UK to France over 13 years ago.
I agree. That's more or less it, in a nutshell.
Decided I’d sit downstairs with my mum for a bit for once and be sociable.
Ended up in an argument because she brought up veggie burgers not being able to be called veggie burgers by order of Brussels.
Brought up the ‘fact’ that we’re not allowed bendy cucumbers
Then said she had never been influenced in her life.
I hate what Brexit has done to people.
Ended up in an argument because she brought up veggie burgers not being able to be called veggie burgers by order of Brussels.
Brought up the ‘fact’ that we’re not allowed bendy cucumbers
Then said she had never been influenced in her life.
I hate what Brexit has done to people.
Noticed my own mum started to "not be influenced" by stuff in a similar way after downloading the Mail app for news. She's never read that shit before but because the app is easy to use it's now her number one source. Thankfully she realises 99% of the stuff is guff, but every now and then she'll come out with stuff like "did you know we waste £20 billion a year propping up orange farms in Spain?"
Should have told her to please stop calling them that or you’d have to call the police.
Not just any police but EU police just to reinforce her fear of an EU army.
Way to go Liz! Now get that US deal done.
But when did truth and logic apply to Brexit.
For so many people, Brexit is not about logic.
It is about an ideology and a vision based largely on lies and totally undeliverable outcomes.
And we are about to find that out the hard way.
I have, in past, said it was racism, but that was unfair. The reason a lot of remainers called it racism is because we knew it was going to be a disaster economically and in terms of the UKs influence and prestige so the only explanation for voting for it from our perspective was prejudice, however most of the low information voters who voted for Brexit were misled by fairly sophisticated advertising and misinformation campaigns about the 'costs of membership', the way 'the EU takes advantage of the UK' and the 'benefits/opportunities of leaving', and the Remain campaigns reaction to it completely played into their hands and simply reinforced the Leave sides messages.
It was the most likely outcome once Biden was elected.
So now we have 15/20 years of rule taking and economic stagnation while the rest of the world progresses until we go crawling back to the EU and have to accept a far worse deal than the one we had.
Outstanding work you f u cking tools.
So, instead of just racism as the total, it might be more appropriate to say it was a confluence of many of small minded, negative ‘-isms’ that exist in the Leavers? Negative phobias that already living in their minds into which the campaign tapped for the source of the Leave energy?
Was anything made up out of whole cloth by the campaign or was it just reading correctly a large swath of the country & playing into the worst of them?
Good article here about Brexit and racism...
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2017.1361544
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01419870.2017.1361544
I would say it was mostly lies of ommision and exaggeration rather than out and out fabrication (although there was plenty of that).
A few examples:
- exaggerated the UKs contribution to the EU budget while failing to mention the huge economic benefit of being a member of the EU
- played on fears of immigration from the middle east by playing up the chances the Turkey becoming a member and it's proximity to Iraq and Syria.
- they described EU nationals as a burden on the NHS (a beloved institution) while failing to mention that whilst EU nationals make up 6% of the population, they make up about 9% of NHS staff, are overwhelmingly of working age so disproportionately contribute to the NHS through taxes, and actually use it less because they're generally young and healthy.
But it all seems like these tactics are geared at the collective ‘-isms’ that exist in the minds on the Leavers.
I honestly can't tell if this is a parody or not.
EDIT: it seems not https://www.express.co.uk/comment/e...-donald-trump-joe-biden-who-won-election-2020
Not sure if this has been shared before. It's narrated by Stephen Fry and they have many great videos fact checking Brexit.
Until the UK starts to reign in the lying industrial complex, like their rag tabloids, it will continue to be more profitable to sell lies. When lying has no consequences, lying becomes a powerful weapon to manipulate people.
Until the UK starts to reign in the lying industrial complex, like their rag tabloids, it will continue to be more profitable to sell lies. When lying has no consequences, lying becomes a powerful weapon to manipulate people.
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Is anyone listening?
John Major: Brexit set to be 'more brutal than anyone expected'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54879209
John Major: Brexit set to be 'more brutal than anyone expected'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54879209
The racism angle is a weird one regarding Brexit. The shortfall of white Europeans coming to UK will drop and has dropped and will mean and already is the case the shortfall will be made up from more south Asian, African and middle eastern countries. The so called racist government won't act in the way the typical right wing voter and left wing voter thinks they will.
Just to keep the thread bumping along...
Brexit: Government's bill suffers heavy House of Lords defeat
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54882088
Brexit: Government's bill suffers heavy House of Lords defeat
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54882088
Are we no deal Brexited yet!?
When is the final date for finalising the type of Brexit we will have?
When is the final date for finalising the type of Brexit we will have?
Barnier's in London this week. Latest date supposed to be by 18/19th to get a deal agreed to commence the ratification.
Either way the UK are in the sh!t :
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...orry-queues-could-make-kent-toilet-of-england
I suspect that is the tip of the fatberg.
6 days eh! Wonder if this is what is causing all of the ruptions in government!
Doesn't bode well.
Ridiculous the levels we are stooping to as a country.
We all know if no deal Brexit was on the referendum options it would have been flatly rejected.
If there is a no deal, is there a risk to the transport of the/a vaccine into the UK?
Especially considering the temperature control requirements.
Especially considering the temperature control requirements.
No worries, the EU has just signed a deal for 300m doses.....oh,wait
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-v...th-biontech-pfizer-to-secure-doses/a-55551329
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-v...th-biontech-pfizer-to-secure-doses/a-55551329
Possibly, there's a minor crisis bubbling away at the biggest port for the past two weeks. Combine that with Brexit and transport will be painful for January. I expect vaccine's will be flown in, and expedited through the normal import process.