Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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  • Poll closed .
SqueakyWeasel said:
Are people really suggesting that a requirement to prove you can live where your potential job will need you to be situated, if you are the successful applicant, is somehow a snub to BREXIT ? :lol:
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It's really a gem. I wonder how you come up with something like that. Were they looking for people who weren't allowed to work for them before?
 
RedChip said:
I'm not sure what your point is. I thought that is what employers have to do under the law, i.e. employ only those that have the right to work and live in the UK?
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It's lost on him that the immigration services may have an issue with a company employing people that don't have the right to work and live in the UK.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
The EU fishermen take a 5-1 ratio of fish from UK waters compared to UK from EU waters.

That was 30,000 jobs from Grimsby and Hull alone lost following the UK entering the common fishing policy. Of course the UK wants redress after we leave the EU.

While I accept it is complicated and gets boiled down to simplistic jingoistic nonsense I really think its a bit rich lecturing other countries on this if you are from France.
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A very small industry and as you say it is far more complicated than Brexit style jingoism https://www.dw.com/en/uk-fishing-industry-or-brexits-red-herrings/a-51418061
 
Full bodied red said:
On the other hand, how will the UK courts react if, say, British Airways or SportsDirect post ads for jobs for those ' who have the right to live and work in the UK ' only.
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Not at all as this is exactly what will be required of employers post-brexit? What do you think happens now? Essential election criteria #3: Applicants without the legal right to work in the EU preferred?
 
An interesting claim, if the UK agreed one trade deal a week it would take 14 years to replace all of the trade agreements we've given up by leaving the EU.

 
My online bank - N26 has just emailed to say they're closing all accounts in the UK because of Brexit. No doubt means jobs lost too.
 
VeevaVee said:
My online bank - N26 has just emailed to say they're closing all accounts in the UK because of Brexit. No doubt means jobs lost too.
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I don't get this, given that they came to the UK after the Brexit vote. Seems to be like management are trying to cover up failure.
 
Fiskey said:
I don't get this, given that they came to the UK after the Brexit vote. Seems to be like management are trying to cover up failure.
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Maybe they expected to get a UK banking licence but haven't done so?

Not sure. Could be what you say though.
 
Fiskey said:
They came to the UK in October 2018, when this kind of exit was at least the midcase scenario. If that's really the reason it's dreadful planning.
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Maybe they thought or were led to believe that the chances of no agreement between the UK and the EU were remote. Seems they have very few staff in the UK and it is run remotely from Germany.

Now that an agreement between the UK and EU seems more unlikely it may start hitting home how different things will be from next year and people and/or companies assuming that things would carry on roughly as before , may be in for a big surprise.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Maybe they thought or were led to believe that the chances of no agreement between the UK and the EU were remote. Seems they have very few staff in the UK and it is run remotely from Germany.

Now that an agreement between the UK and EU seems more unlikely it may start hitting home how different things will be from next year and people and/or companies assuming that things would carry on roughly as before , may be in for a big surprise.
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Well exactly. The government has been saying 'prepare' to businesses for a while now without actually telling them what they need to prepare for. Johnson was still telling people that they'd be no border checks on goods before Xmas and Gove has come out and directly contradicted that again yesterday.
 
CassiusClaymore said:
Well exactly. The government has been saying 'prepare' to businesses for a while now without actually telling them what they need to prepare for. Johnson was still telling people that they'd be no border checks on goods before Xmas and Gove has come out and directly contradicted that again yesterday.
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No-one in the UK government gives me the impression that they know what they are doing regarding the UK leaving the EU. In reality the government seems to have no idea themselves what to prepare for, let alone advising businesses.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Maybe they thought or were led to believe that the chances of no agreement between the UK and the EU were remote. Seems they have very few staff in the UK and it is run remotely from Germany.

Now that an agreement between the UK and EU seems more unlikely it may start hitting home how different things will be from next year and people and/or companies assuming that things would carry on roughly as before , may be in for a big surprise.
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Their relatively tiny market share in the UK means it wasn't worth them taking on the cost of securing a UK specific banking license. It's as simple as that.
 
So the government will stop low skilled workers from immigranting to Britain, and the Brits themselves are already queuing up to work at McDonalds or as cherry-pickers...
 


That's an official government account tweeting that. What next? "Where's our 350 million Michael? Call me"
 
Rams said:
So the government will stop low skilled workers from immigranting to Britain, and the Brits themselves are already queuing up to work at McDonalds or as cherry-pickers...
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I'm investing in self service machines I think
McDonald's... Hotel check ins... They already exist but I suspect about to become much more commercially viable
Obviousley we will have to import them as we won't have people in the UK to work on the assembly lines... So yeah probably automated assembly lines as well.
 
New immigration rules look excellent, exactly what this country needs.
 
Smores said:


That's an official government account tweeting that. What next? "Where's our 350 million Michael? Call me"
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What's changed... Id say at the time they published that we were talking about close alignment on regulations and environmental standards because due to our physical proximity to the EU (unlike Canada) they want to make sure we don't allow sweatshop conditions with minimal corporation taxes and allowing factories to ignore (expensive) environmental standards and then be freely allowed to trade those goods in the world's biggest market with an unfair advantage.
We have said we want to deviate on these standards... So yeah what's changed... Our stance and as such so has the EU's

 
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Fiskey said:
New immigration rules look excellent, exactly what this country needs.
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As an employer they look a little inflexible ... Not a concern for my company as we employ engineers and highly skilled (paid) people mainly but I can see a big impact on the supply chain - particularly construction and events which we work in... There is already a massive labour shortage in construction and with HS2 in the mix I'm genuinely not sure there are the labourers available.... Equally the seasonality of events and hospitality means people often come in for a few months only which looks like it will be trickier
Overall shouldn't impact my business which was of course my main concern but with such a low unemployment rate I suspect this will be aligned with a very brutal cut in benefits essentially forcing people to take work.
 
Kinsella said:
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The UK should send them back to go in the big new museum in Greece, to be with everything else from the Parthenon . We can have replicas instead. No need for us to keep the originals. It would be a real gesture of good faith.

You can argue that Elgin had a legal agreement to take them at the time, but we are all aware that this was cultural looting. We wouldn't do it now.
 
sun_tzu said:
As an employer they look a little inflexible ... Not a concern for my company as we employ engineers and highly skilled (paid) people mainly but I can see a big impact on the supply chain - particularly construction and events which we work in... There is already a massive labour shortage in construction and with HS2 in the mix I'm genuinely not sure there are the labourers available.... Equally the seasonality of events and hospitality means people often come in for a few months only which looks like it will be trickier
Overall shouldn't impact my business which was of course my main concern but with such a low unemployment rate I suspect this will be aligned with a very brutal cut in benefits essentially forcing people to take work.
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Thanks for sharing. I've never worked in the labouring or construction industry, how long would it take to train someone to be effective? Do you think there will be enough people willing to train should it be offered?
 
Smores said:


That's an official government account tweeting that. What next? "Where's our 350 million Michael? Call me"
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It proves that the morons who are running the country and the idiots who voted for Brexit have not got a scooby do what they are doing or what they voted for.
They had a cabinet reshuffle and left Liz Truss as International Trade Secretary. I've had clerks who were more knowledgeable on international trade than she is.
Is there anyone in government who actually understands how international trade works?
 
Fiskey said:
Thanks for sharing. I've never worked in the labouring or construction industry, how long would it take to train someone to be effective? Do you think there will be enough people willing to train should it be offered?
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Construction is a pretty broad sector but specifically steel erecting (we design and build bridges and floating structures for events)
A skilled labourer would be earning more than the 25k for sure but they would need to have done an nvq (ideally level 4) which is I think approx a level and that has to be done with inspections on the job as well as paperwork ... Typically a year or so

On top of that (just to be able to get in a cherry picker and tighten a bolt... I.e. a pretty base level) they are going to have needed to do a week long recognised health and safety a week long slinger banksman course a working at height course ipaf or similar as well as the cpcs requirements ... Minimum a month and 7k ish in training (and wages whilst they are training) I'd say.

For a groundworker fetching and carrying tools just the basic health and safety (3 days and a few hundred quid)

So it varies a lot

I generally take people on with the view that in the first year they will cost me money and time... In the second year that should break even and by year 3 they will be properly productive... We only have very experienced project managers and a few steel erectors of our own who again are super experienced ... The more general and junior people we tend to subcontract in and it's those that I see the problem with... A lot are self employed (they work on oil rigs... They do jobs for me... They do big projects for a few months in one place then onto the next job)... I believe there is very very limited routes for temporary and self employed so yeah that's a concern

At the junior end I do worry that there is enough unemployed English folks ready to go and undertake physical jobs often staying away from home for an extended period ... Certainly I know my subcontractors have struggled for years to bring in the right young people and HS2 for example is mandating how many apprentices you have to take on per £x spent with you on the scheme... I am hesitant as an employer to take people on if I don't see a long term future for them being the right fit especially given the training requirements and time taken to make somebody effective for me... But if I am legally obliged to then I just have to hire whoever is available (and given the low unemployment rates that might not be the right person available at the right time) and essentially stick all the training costs as an expense to the contract if I don't think they will stay with us for 3 years plus (that will go on everybodys tax bill by the way)

The events industry will need looking at... There are a lot of freelancers tour with bands and go between festivals... Riggers ... Specialist pm and infra guys and certainly 90% of the ones I work with are self employed so that looks like it could be difficult as with a tour you will have a core who go worldwide but also a north America team, South America, europe, Asia etc... Not sure how the European teams will be able to come in because as I say they are all freelancers so I'm not sure the exemptions for entertainers etc will stretch that far ... But I've not fully checked that
 
sun_tzu said:
Construction is a pretty broad sector but specifically steel erecting (we design and build bridges and floating structures for events)
A skilled labourer would be earning more than the 25k for sure but they would need to have done an nvq (ideally level 4) which is I think approx a level and that has to be done with inspections on the job as well as paperwork ... Typically a year or so

On top of that (just to be able to get in a cherry picker and tighten a bolt... I.e. a pretty base level) they are going to have needed to do a week long recognised health and safety a week long slinger banksman course a working at height course ipaf or similar as well as the cpcs requirements ... Minimum a month and 7k ish in training (and wages whilst they are training) I'd say.

For a groundworker fetching and carrying tools just the basic health and safety (3 days and a few hundred quid)

So it varies a lot

I generally take people on with the view that in the first year they will cost me money and time... In the second year that should break even and by year 3 they will be properly productive... We only have very experienced project managers and a few steel erectors of our own who again are super experienced ... The more general and junior people we tend to subcontract in and it's those that I see the problem with... A lot are self employed (they work on oil rigs... They do jobs for me... They do big projects for a few months in one place then onto the next job)... I believe there is very very limited routes for temporary and self employed so yeah that's a concern

At the junior end I do worry that there is enough unemployed English folks ready to go and undertake physical jobs often staying away from home for an extended period ... Certainly I know my subcontractors have struggled for years to bring in the right young people and HS2 for example is mandating how many apprentices you have to take on per £x spent with you on the scheme... I am hesitant as an employer to take people on if I don't see a long term future for them being the right fit especially given the training requirements and time taken to make somebody effective for me... But if I am legally obliged to then I just have to hire whoever is available (and given the low unemployment rates that might not be the right person available at the right time) and essentially stick all the training costs as an expense to the contract if I don't think they will stay with us for 3 years plus (that will go on everybodys tax bill by the way)

The events industry will need looking at... There are a lot of freelancers tour with bands and go between festivals... Riggers ... Specialist pm and infra guys and certainly 90% of the ones I work with are self employed so that looks like it could be difficult as with a tour you will have a core who go worldwide but also a north America team, South America, europe, Asia etc... Not sure how the European teams will be able to come in because as I say they are all freelancers so I'm not sure the exemptions for entertainers etc will stretch that far ... But I've not fully checked that
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Interesting. I imagine as with lots of these type of policy issues this is the kind where government will have to set its stall out and then react quickly should there be issues. It would be good if government could invest in training in someway at the same time to try and ensure not all of the costs land on business.
 
Fiskey said:
Interesting. I imagine as with lots of these type of policy issues this is the kind where government will have to set its stall out and then react quickly should there be issues. It would be good if government could invest in training in someway at the same time to try and ensure not all of the costs land on business.
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Well the other strand of my business is essentially working in international development with the likes of ukef and the dti... Great people... Committed... Some highty inteligent chaps and chappesses ... But the civil service machine is not an organisation set up to react quickly
So I have my doubts about that

As for the costs I'm pretty sure that's all coming to businesses because it's far more palatable than raising income tax on people in the ballot box... They might cut corporation tax or allow extra tax relief for certain training I guess but that's the most I realistically hope for in the budget
 
Rams said:
So the government will stop low skilled workers from immigranting to Britain, and the Brits themselves are already queuing up to work at McDonalds or as cherry-pickers...
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Not really, because as labour shortages in McDonalds and fruit picking, etc. become a reality, a few things might happen;

* Defined now as areas of labour shortage these job/vacancies get a boost from the points system under identified labour shortages section;
*NVQ's in Burger tossing and picking fruit become available at Level 2, also boost points for job holders under requisite Qualifications section
*McDonalds and Fruit growers will up grade their automation production methods, requiring less staff and the savings used to raise the salary levels of those remaining to meet or even rise above the salary caps section.

Win-win situation; labour shortages targeted, improved skill levels in the respective industries raised, productivity (via automation) improved, better paid if less jobs required, immigration figures reduced!
 
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